Training Camp Day 6

[Pachyderm_Wave]

In your opinion, do you think Grier deserves some significant credit for Flores?

Flores hasn't coached a game yet, so we don't really know whether to give credit or assign blame. What I'm saying is I think it's going to be difficult for Flores to be successful with Grier providing the talent.

It doesn't matter if he made a good coaching hire if all he's going to do is hamstring him with bad draft picks and bogus FA signings. I don't understand why people think this guy can go out there and battle the best organizations in the league for championships just on his X's and O's and a TNT wall. He needs players. Most of all a quarterback.

Are you willing to fire Flores if he doesn't win and keep absolving Grier of any responsibility? That's how he got to where he's at in the first place. I don't see why they'd stop now.

 

[ckparrothead]

Oh I agree he's risk adverse, but your notion that is was "obvious" is faulty, otherwise he would have been selected picks 6-12 (since his value was so "obvious").

What happened is we did our HW, had a little bit of desperation and luck which all added up to an A+ pick.

Grier deserves full credit.

You're clearly not accounting for the simple, extremely well evidenced fact that teams pick for needs.

Slimm had it exactly right. The Baltimore Ravens, with a need at left tackle, had a choice to make at #7 overall between Ronnie Stanley (who is, let's be frank, an awesome NFL player right now) and Laremy Tunsil. They chose Stanley. They actually took a risk in doing that. If Tunsil turned out better, everyone would've accused them of shrinking because of some silly video which everyone knew wouldn't even result in Tunsil's being entered into the NFL's drug program (and yes, that was known by the time picks happened).

The shrinking violet in the moment when it came to Laremy Tunsil was actually the Tennessee Titans at #10 overall. They had a need at right tackle. They chose a more prototypical right tackle prospect in Jack Conklin who did NOT have the same grade as Laremy Tunsil, and they did it out of a combination of risk-aversion from the video, and risk-aversion over moving Tunsil from left to right tackle.

 

[dougb123]

HW -Are you saying the Dolphins leaked that tape with the help of his agent Jimmy Sexton and buddy of Tannenbaum and we knew he would slide right to us

Oh I agree he's risk adverse, but your notion that is was "obvious" is faulty, otherwise he would have been selected picks 6-12 (since his value was so "obvious").

What happened is we did our HW, had a little bit of desperation and luck which all added up to an A+ pick.

There's risk with ANY pick, especially one with Tunsil's rare situation.

Grier deserves full credit.

 

[TannDaMan17]

You're clearly not accounting for the simple, extremely well evidenced fact that teams pick for needs.

Slimm had it exactly right. The Baltimore Ravens, with a need at left tackle, had a choice to make at #7 overall between Ronnie Stanley (who is, let's be frank, an awesome NFL player right now) and Laremy Tunsil. They chose Stanley. They actually took a risk in doing that. If Tunsil turned out better, everyone would've accused them of shrinking because of some silly video which everyone knew wouldn't even result in Tunsil's being entered into the NFL's drug program (and yes, that was known by the time picks happened).

The shrinking violet in the moment when it came to Laremy Tunsil was actually the Tennessee Titans at #10 overall. They had a need at right tackle. They chose a college right tackle in Jack Conklin who did NOT have the same grade as Laremy Tunsil, and they did it out of a combination of risk-aversion from the video, and risk-aversion over moving Tunsil from left to right tackle.

How the Giants that year took Apple over Tunsil is astonishing, as if they haven't had offensive line woes for a few years now lol.

People got scared because of the video obviously, I get that we were lucky because we truly were but at the end of the day Grier deserves a ton of credit for making that pick, imo at least.

I like Grier a lot.

 

[Namor]

Christ guys!!!!!...Tunsil was a no-brainer pick,he fell into our lap...end of story on that pick....
I'll give Grier credit on the X pick..

 

[ckparrothead]

Again, I have no problem with giving Chris Grier credit for taking Laremy Tunsil.

But let's not pretend it's an example of him showing "guts" or taking a risk.

 

[TannDaMan17]

Again, I have no problem with giving Chris Grier credit for taking Laremy Tunsil.

But let's not pretend it's an example of him showing "guts" or taking a risk.

Apparently Namor (and I'm sure plenty more) have a problem giving Grier credit on that one.

Irrelevant he fell into our laps, that's the other 12 GM's fault (and Grier was smart to not trade up).

 

[Namor]

Now,explain Charles Harris...who gets the atta boy for that one?

 

[BigNastyFish]

Flores hasn't coached a game yet, so we don't really know whether to give credit or assign blame. What I'm saying is I think it's going to be difficult for Flores to be successful with Grier providing the talent.

It doesn't matter if he made a good coaching hire if all he's going to do is hamstring him with bad draft picks and bogus FA signings. I don't understand why people think this guy can go out there and battle the best organizations in the league for championships just on his X's and O's and a TNT wall. He needs players. Most of all a quarterback.

Are you willing to fire Flores if he doesn't win and keep absolving Grier of any responsibility? That's how he got to where he's at in the first place. I don't see why they'd stop now.

Of course everyone is responsible. But we gotta keep in mind this is Chris Grier's 1st year as GM! And as I said previously, I really like the decisions he's made so far. Beyond that -- yes (!) we need talent starting with a legit NFL high-performance QB. We also need to finally solve the OL riddle -- which this team has failed to address effectively for many years.

At this point in time I get the strong impression there's a natural synergy between Grier and Flores -- and if that's correct -- we're in good shape for the long term. On the other hand, if this "new regime" implodes in a few years (whatever), I'd be right back to "insisting" we somehow someway get Ross totally out of the picture -- and hopefully replace him with an ownership group that has (a) it's roots in SFL and (b) some connections/insights into running a PRO football franchise.

But I fully realize whatever is going to happen is totally out of my control -- and those calling the shots could care less what a solitary fan says... It's all about the $$$ -- regardless of the outcome!

 

[hoops]

Tunsil was the obvious run away bpa there’s nothing risky or gutsy in that.

Minkah safe Wilkins safe. Not hard to see why people would say Grier is risk averse.

I know one thing...if Rosen doesn’t work out and we don’t land the top pick i sure hope his nuts drop and he puts them on the table to go get a damn qb.

Swing for the fences like the buffalo gm has done with his last 3 1st round picks.

All with ridiculous ceilings

 

[SCLSU Mud Dogs]

Now,explain Charles Harris...who gets the atta boy for that one?

Charles Harris was widely viewed as one of the top defensive end prospects in that year's class. Mike Mayock, who is now an NFL GM, had Harris listed in his top 20 overall prospects that season.

So I call bullshit on the masses coming out and saying "I kNeW hArRiS wOuLdN't Be GoOd". There were a few posters here who did not like Harris as a prospect before he was drafted by Miami, but most people that tell you it was a shitty pick fall into the age-old "hindsight is 2020".

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

But we gotta keep in mind this is Chris Grier's 1st year as GM! And as I said previously, I really like the decisions he's made so far.

Well, we've centered this entire discussion around the assumption that Grier was responsible for the draft picks going back to 2016. That's why I said we'd start wherever anyone wanted to start at. Because nobody here knows where to really start at. Everybody is going to start at whatever point they feel is going to help them feel better about this guy.

The only known FACT, is that Grier has had his hands in the mess the Dolphins are since the beginning. Except he's somehow managed to dodge all the culpability. Yet, somehow still getting credit at the same time.

My point remains consistent no matter where you want to start at.

 

[Danny]

Now,explain Charles Harris...who gets the atta boy for that one?

keep in mind if it was a god pick we have to give ALL the credit to Grier but if it was a bad pick that's all on the HC.

 

[Danny]

Well, we've centered this entire discussion around the assumption that Grier was responsible for the draft picks going back to 2016. That's why I said we'd start wherever anyone wanted to start at. Because nobody here knows where to really start at. Everybody is going to start at whatever point they feel is going to help them feel better about this guy.

The only known FACT, is that Grier has had his hands in the mess the Dolphins are since the beginning. Except he's somehow managed to dodge all the culpability. Yet, somehow still getting credit at the same time.

My point remains consistent no matter where you want to start at.

I have to agree with this here. Some people want to have it both ways. Nothing great has happen with this team since Grier has been here.

 

[hoops]

x Is Grier’s best pick and it’s not even close

Gesicki is his worst

Charles harris is moving more away from pass rush impact it appears which means he will never validate the top 25 pick