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Training Camp Day 6

Seems like the o line thing is the patriot model. Of course that model had holes in it too (not Miami level mind you but holes none the less) til the o line coach came back.
 
TedSlimmJr said:
Absolutely, and you were dead on when you said it. I believe I even called it required reading.

We can make the case against Grier just based off the picks he made, without even considering all the quarterbacks Miami should've been aggressive in acquiring like Mahomes, Watson, etc.

As I said from the beginning - and what J-Doll's bigger point is - if these guys can't build an offensive line and find a franchise quarterback, nothing else they do will matter. They will not succeed together. Preparing an offensive line for the QB they plan to acquire in the future to build around, whether it's a 2020 pick or Josh Rosen or whoever, is the proper way to go about it.

When you have essentially nothing but UDFA's able to come in and win starting jobs on your offensive line a week into camp constantly - it's not ever going to be a good sign.
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I agree with you in principle about building an OL for a young QB. I think it's essential.

And while I know we disagree on the merits of the Josh Rosen trade, this is one of the big reasons I consider it a waste of time and resources.

But I think there are multiple ways to do that and it starts with Laremy Tunsil. You really can buy the rest. But you can't buy a Laremy Tunsil. What it looks to me like they're doing this year is detoxing the balance sheet, focusing on keeping Laremy Tunsil (a contract will be coming), and spending the year scratching off gas station lotto tickets.

Between Michael Deiter, Shaq Calhoun, Jesse Davis, Chris Reed, Kyle Fuller, Jaryd Jones-Smith, and Isaiah Prince...I think you could have two or maybe even three guys who should be here. Playing them helps you find that out, but playing them will also clearly be painful in the short term.

Once you're done, you take whoever bites as puppies, add in a Laremy Tunsil, and go shopping for the rest.

Next year you've got players like J.C. Tretter, Rodney Hudson, and Cody Whitehair scheduled to be free agents. Normally you'd say, these guys don't make it to free agency. But Center in particular is a position where every year it seems like teams do let guys make it to market.

Next year the Guard market will include some guys like Josh Garnett, Christian Westerman, Ted Karras, Brandon Scherff, and Quinton Spain,. Normally you'd say there's no way a Joe Thuney makes it to market, but the Patriots are funny about that stuff.

And Steve Ross probably still has a thing for La'el Collins, scheduled to be a free agent next off season. He and the Cowboys seem a bit uneasy with one another, too. There are some other guys you can get some run out of, like Jack Conklin, Le'Raven Clark, Cornelius Lucas, etc. Look what the Patriots were able to do with Trenton Brown.

By the time a Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert, Jake Fromm, or Jordan Love gets here, this will likely be a different OL than the one you're seeing in training camp of 2019.

But if this is the plan, they've got to follow through on it.
 
I’d back up a brinks truck for Brandon scherf but that’s a pipe dream. He isn’t going anywhere.

Unless his leg falls off or something
 
ckparrothead said:
I agree with you in principle about building an OL for a young QB. I think it's essential.

And while I know we disagree on the merits of the Josh Rosen trade, this is one of the big reasons I consider it a waste of time and resources.

But I think there are multiple ways to do that and it starts with Laremy Tunsil. You really can buy the rest. But you can't buy a Laremy Tunsil. What it looks to me like they're doing this year is detoxing the balance sheet, focusing on keeping Laremy Tunsil (a contract will be coming), and spending the year scratching off gas station lotto tickets.

Between Michael Deiter, Shaq Calhoun, Jesse Davis, Chris Reed, Kyle Fuller, Jaryd Jones-Smith, and Isaiah Prince...I think you could have two or maybe even three guys who should be here. Playing them helps you find that out, but playing them will also clearly be painful in the short term.

Once you're done, you take whoever bites as puppies, add in a Laremy Tunsil, and go shopping for the rest.

Next year you've got players like J.C. Tretter, Rodney Hudson, and Cody Whitehair scheduled to be free agents. Normally you'd say, these guys don't make it to free agency. But Center in particular is a position where every year it seems like teams do let guys make it to market.

Next year the Guard market will include some guys like Josh Garnett, Christian Westerman, Ted Karras, Brandon Scherff, and Quinton Spain,. Normally you'd say there's no way a Joe Thuney makes it to market, but the Patriots are funny about that stuff.

And Steve Ross probably still has a thing for La'el Collins, scheduled to be a free agent next off season. He and the Cowboys seem a bit uneasy with one another, too. There are some other guys you can get some run out of, like Jack Conklin, Le'Raven Clark, Cornelius Lucas, etc. Look what the Patriots were able to do with Trenton Brown.

By the time a Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert, Jake Fromm, or Jordan Love gets here, this will likely be a different OL than the one you're seeing in training camp of 2019.

But if this is the plan, they've got to follow through on it.
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I don't. I don't even think you have one among that bunch. As we know, just because guys make it through camp and starts on Sundays for Miami along the offensive line - doesn't mean they should be there.

What I think needs to happen in order for these guys to be successful is adding talent to the offensive line. You can't keep whiffing on your draft picks and then plugging in the UDFA's and calling it even. I do agree with you that free agency is the key to building a solid offensive line - especially at the guard positions. It's a tried and true philosophy. The only coach Miami has had who really understood this was going all the way back to Jimmy Johnson. The offensive line wasn't even an issue under Wannstedt, because even he understood it also.

You can't guess and hope when it comes to the trenches. Can't be a dart thrower here. You have to be accurate with your picks and signings or you will not be successful.
 
TedSlimmJr said:
I'd argue that it's been average at best. The absolute best Grier will ever achieve in a given draft is average. He's a C-level performer at his job.

Even when he does manage to make a decent pick, some other team always ends up with the guy at the same position that was better that Grier passed on.

So you tell me when you believe Grier started buying the groceries and we'll discuss it from that point forward. I'll even let you pick where we start. It don't matter to me.
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2016...go.
https://amp.si.com/nfl/2016/04/30/nfl-draft-grades-teams-winners-losers-picks-analysis

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2016-nfl-draft-grades-for-all-32-teams
 
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Get bit in the ass, with a player like Charles Harris

It would certainly send you to seek safer ground

You don't think Marvin Allen, Adam Engroff, Anthony Hunt are going to help?
Was hoping this problem was solved.
 
DPhinz_DPhinz said:
2016...go.
https://amp.si.com/nfl/2016/04/30/nfl-draft-grades-teams-winners-losers-picks-analysis

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2016-nfl-draft-grades-for-all-32-teams
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Exactly, last years class and 2016 were not "C" level drafts, but when you primarily watch college football that's really all you know I guess because ANYONE who knows NFL football would not call 2016 a "C" :roflmao. X and Tunsil have HoF potential and will be compensated accordingly by the fins or someone else (drake not a bad 3rd and Jakeem not a bad 6th either).

Slimm was SUPER excited about the Raewkon pick as well who has disappointed overall, I think Grier knows a little bit more (to say the least) about NFL football than anyone on this website despite delusional beliefs.

Even in 2015 which wasn't a strong class we picked up Godchaux in the 5th and Taylor in the 6th, Grier knows what he's doing...
 
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DPhinz_DPhinz said:
2016...go.
Click to expand...


2016 was the best - but still probably only a B+

They were fortunate that the most bizarre draft day incident in history took place allowing Tunsil to fall. But give Miami credit for being ready to pull the trigger and seize the opportunity. But it gets even better...

They selected Howard in the 2nd round, who is one of the top young CB's in the league.

Kenyon Drake in the 3rd round - is he a starting RB? Depends on who you ask. He's a good football player though and a hard worker. Loves the game.

All the good they did in the first 2 rounds started to come unraveled a little bit here when they traded up for Carroo in the 3rd round.

Jakeem Grant in the 6th - nice little gadget player with inconsistent hands and the catch radius of a knat, but some big play ability - but we'll give 'em a score here.

Jordan Lucas in the 6th.

Brandon Doughty in the 7th. The most significant investment made in a quarterback since they drafted Ryan Tannehill. Barely a camp arm.

Thomas Duarte in the 7th. Think he saw two snaps as a Dolphin. Only really saw the field in the AAF.




In order to compete in the NFL, you need to hit drafts like this at minimum. C level or below drafts aren't going to allow you to compete. Somebody out there is going to be racking up at a much higher level.
 
TannDaMan17 said:
Exactly, last years class and 2016 were not "C" level drafts, but when you primarily watch college football that's really all you know I guess because ANYONE who knows NFL football would not call 2016 a "C" :roflmao

Slimm was SUPER excited about the Raewkon pick as well who has disappointed overall, I think Grier knows a little bit more (to say the least) about NFL football than anyone on this website despite delusional beliefs.

Even in 2015 which wasn't a strong class we picked up Godchaux in the 5th and Taylor in the 6th, Grier knows what he's doing...
Click to expand...



You're the most delusional poster on this entire site. I don't even think you're serious with half your posts.

If Grier was stacking up anything but C level drafts on average, Miami wouldn't suck so bad.

I'll bet you any amount of money you're willing to put up that Miami never wins a playoff game with Grier as the GM. Shut up and bet some money.
 
TedSlimmJr said:
You're the most delusional poster on this entire site. I don't even think you're serious with half your posts.

If Grier was stacking up anything but C level drafts on average, Miami wouldn't suck so bad.

I'll bet you any amount of money you're willing to put up that Miami never wins a playoff game with Grier as the GM. Shut up and bet some money.
Click to expand...

In all reality you know a TON about college football and therefore prospects coming into the NFL.

But to call 2016 a "C" level draft and to say Grier will never do better than that tells me everything I need to know about your NFL knowledge.

To walk away with X, Tunsil, Jakeem and Drake with the picks we had...smh.
 
TannDaMan17 said:
In all reality you know a TON about college football and therefore prospects coming into the NFL.

But to call 2016 a "C" level draft and to say Grier will never do better than that tells me everything I need to know about your NFL knowledge.

To walk away with X, Tunsil, Jakeem and Drake with the picks we had...smh.
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You can't read. That tells me everything I need to know about you.
 
TedSlimmJr said:
You can't read. That tells me everything I need to know about you.
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"The absolute best Grier will ever achieve in a given draft is average."

But yet, somehow we walked away with Tunsil, X, Drake, and Jakeem with middle of the pack draft position, whatever.
 
TannDaMan17 said:
In all reality you know a TON about college football and therefore prospects coming into the NFL.

But to call 2016 a "C" level draft and to say Grier will never do better than that tells me everything I need to know about your NFL knowledge.
Click to expand...
His first sentence he said it was a B+ :ponder:
 
Daytona Fin said:
His first sentence he said it was a B+ :ponder:
Click to expand...

"I'd argue that it's been average at best. The absolute best Grier will ever achieve in a given draft is average. He's a C-level performer at his job.

Even when he does manage to make a decent pick, some other team always ends up with the guy at the same position that was better that Grier passed on.

So you tell me when you believe Grier started buying the groceries and we'll discuss it from that point forward. I'll even let you pick where we start. It don't matter to me."

-Slimm


2016 wasn't average, unless you expect to get 2 HoF caliber players with middle of the pack picks in every 1st and 2nd round lmao (and Jakeem + Drake to bout).
 
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