Training Camp Day 6

[Etuoo33]

He did take a pounding for sure. Tanney was definitely a tough dude to watch play. The single player most responsible for Tannehill sacks was Ryan Tannehill. Clueless when it came to pocket awareness and movement.

I remember a thread in 2016 that asked to list the trait that most defined Tannehill and the overwhelming answers were toughness and durability. Then he ends up missing 24.5 of his last 35 games. The guy missed 22.5% of his games overall.

He's lucky he can still walk much less play football after the beatings he took here.

 

[Buff]

These contracts are starting to get out of hand. Of course we need to see the particulars regarding the numbers but still...M.Thomas is a nice player but higest paid WR in NFL History? Give me a break!

If I were building an offence around a WR, it would be Thomas, Theilin from the Vikes, and Ju Ju. He is certainly top three. Thats not saying the others are top three but looking forward

 

[j-off-her-doll]

Well none of those edge options are fleet of foot

4.85 plusers

Harris, Carradine, Ledbetter, Woodard

Carradine ran a 4.75 soon after recovering from his injury, but with the string of injuries, he probably lost some juice. Haven't given him a good look in some time. But, NE often rolls with 4.85+ DE's (C. Jones and T. Flowers), so it will be interesting to see how much Flores cares. The big difference (athletically) is that both Flowers and Jones had other high-end traits - agility for Jones and burst for Flowers. I think Leadbetter is too limited, but Woodard and Carradine should be functional in this scheme - probably rotational pieces in a perfect world but still solid fits. Harris has the size of NE's OLB's, but he's much slower than guys like J. Collins and K. Van Noy. In terms of profile, Van Ginkel is the most similar to what NE likes to put outside.

Said it before the draft, but I don't care about the talent of the Front 7 in 2019 - probably not in 2020 either. You can build a quality F7 pretty quickly, and I'd plan to spend all my premium resources on offense until I have the pieces to develop into a Top-10/Top-5 unit. I'd only deviate from that for special players. In 2019, Q. Williams and E. Oliver would have been the two players that would have been worth it. Like Wilkins a lot, but unless Miami hits Offense hard and effectively in 2020, you might have a year or two left on his rookie deal by the time Miami's Offense is good enough for the difference between Wilkins and a replacement-level player to matter. Even if you build an elite D, it won't stay elite for long. You might get one year where you're in contention, but you'll still be a longshot to beat a team with a great QB and Offense, and then you'll quickly fall back to earth - like Jacksonville and probably Chicago.

QB success is sustainable and more impactful. Even if you don't have the QB on your roster, your instincts should be like those of a future mother. You should prepare an environment for the future QB to thrive - OL and receiving options. I know that many view WR as one of Miami's strengths, which is probably true, but it's still a below-average group. If Miami went OL/OL in 2019, they'd be in a much better position to draft a WR in the Top 40 in 2020. If I was Miami, I would have gone Lindstrom (13) and McCoy (48) in 2019 with Tua (1) and T. Wallace/J. Reagor (33) as my targets in 2020. Instead, Miami is in the position to hope that they can piece together a good OL like NE. If they do draft a QB early (preferably Tua), they may feel pressure to abandon that strategy and draft OL with one or both of their 2nd's. To be clear and fair, the trade down that netted the 2020 2nd and the trade for Rosen were worthwhile moves, but given my goals for 2020 and how highly I ranked McCoy, I would have just drafted him and slept well, knowing I have high floors and All-Pro potential at C and RG.

 

[Phinatic8u]

Carradine ran a 4.75 soon after recovering from his injury, but with the string of injuries, he probably lost some juice. Haven't given him a good look in some time. But, NE often rolls with 4.85+ DE's (C. Jones and T. Flowers), so it will be interesting to see how much Flores cares. The big difference (athletically) is that both Flowers and Jones had other high-end traits - agility for Jones and burst for Flowers. I think Leadbetter is too limited, but Woodard and Carradine should be functional in this scheme - probably rotational pieces in a perfect world but still solid fits. Harris has the size of NE's OLB's, but he's much slower than guys like J. Collins and K. Van Noy. In terms of profile, Van Ginkel is the most similar to what NE likes to put outside.

Said it before the draft, but I don't care about the talent of the Front 7 in 2019 - probably not in 2020 either. You can build a quality F7 pretty quickly, and I'd plan to spend all my premium resources on offense until I have the pieces to develop into a Top-10/Top-5 unit. I'd only deviate from that for special players. In 2019, Q. Williams and E. Oliver would have been the two players that would have been worth it. Like Wilkins a lot, but unless Miami hits Offense hard and effectively in 2020, you might have a year or two left on his rookie deal by the time Miami's Offense is good enough for the difference between Wilkins and a replacement-level player to matter. Even if you build an elite D, it won't stay elite for long. You might get one year where you're in contention, but you'll still be a longshot to beat a team with a great QB and Offense, and then you'll quickly fall back to earth - like Jacksonville and probably Chicago.

QB success is sustainable and more impactful. Even if you don't have the QB on your roster, your instincts should be like those of a future mother. You should prepare an environment for the future QB to thrive - OL and receiving options. I know that many view WR as one of Miami's strengths, which is probably true, but it's still a below-average group. If Miami went OL/OL in 2019, they'd be in a much better position to draft a WR in the Top 40 in 2020. If I was Miami, I would have gone Lindstrom (13) and McCoy (48) in 2019 with Tua (1) and T. Wallace/J. Reagor (33) as my targets in 2020. Instead, Miami is in the position to hope that they can piece together a good OL like NE. If they do draft a QB early (preferably Tua), they may feel pressure to abandon that strategy and draft OL with one or both of their 2nd's. To be clear and fair, the trade down that netted the 2020 2nd and the trade for Rosen were worthwhile moves, but given my goals for 2020 and how highly I ranked McCoy, I would have just drafted him and slept well, knowing I have high floors and All-Pro potential at C and RG.

Bingo. Absolutely killer post J.

Miami has a high chance to land the #1 overall pick next year, so the plan all along may have been that, but it was worth to take a chance on Rosen to see if he turns it on, even though he never really showed any reason to believe that even in college, it was well worth the risk.

 

[hoops]

Gotta love the "over achiever" label LMFAO. Dude is a football player period, and a pretty good one at that. You have soft *** athletes like a Mike Gesicki, then you have hard-nose tough football players like O'Leary. You win games when you have a team full of O'Learys not with one full of Gesickis...

Would you rather me just say low ceiling and limited ask as a pass catcher?

Or maybe it’s better if I just say he’s maximizing what he has to offer. Not leaving anything on the table

 

[hoops]

I don’t get the 4-3 looks with this group and think a 3-3-5 would be much more productive.

A line of Wilkins, Taylor and Godchaux

Linebackers a mix of Baker (all the time) and the rest of the group based on situation.

Leaves Minkah as the 5th DB to roam the field.

I think we will see plenty of different looks and that 4 man front is just package stuff.

Could be base but teams are rarely in base anyways.

 

[Mach2]

Would you rather me just say low ceiling and limited ask as a pass catcher?

Or maybe it’s better if I just say he’s maximizing what he has to offer. Not leaving anything on the table

There are, indeed, several ways to express the same view.

I don't care much for the term "underachiever", because to me it has negative connotations.

The phrase "the whole is more than the sum of the parts".

 

[hoops]

There are, indeed, several ways to express the same view.

I don't care much for the term "underachiever", because to me it has negative connotations.

The phrase "the whole is more than the sum of the parts".

Well I said overachiever but bottom line is I’d prefer a more dynamic option someone that actually threatens the defense

I can throw the ball on a delayed or flats release to anyone

 

[dougb123]

Solid plan and more than likely the way they should have gone, I did have McCoy at 48 but not Lindstrom at 13 was looking to hard at the defense and the talent they shipped out. I have to admit I like the personality of Wilkins and I've convinced myself he will be here year 6 and I'm a bit tired of our better talent walking off after 1st contract.

Also not sure we get 1 and 33 but more than likely top 10

I do believe your on to something building the offense first, but if there's a DE in our top 3 picks Flores may pressure Grier to go in that direction.

Funny I didn't get you name and I know I've seen a dozen of your posts, just looked like the Christmas guy for some reason....cool name

 

[Ferretsquig]

QB success is sustainable and more impactful. Even if you don't have the QB on your roster, your instincts should be like those of a future mother. You should prepare an environment for the future QB to thrive - OL and receiving options. I know that many view WR as one of Miami's strengths, which is probably true, but it's still a below-average group. If Miami went OL/OL in 2019, they'd be in a much better position to draft a WR in the Top 40 in 2020. If I was Miami, I would have gone Lindstrom (13) and McCoy (48) in 2019 with Tua (1) and T. Wallace/J. Reagor (33) as my targets in 2020. Instead, Miami is in the position to hope that they can piece together a good OL like NE. If they do draft a QB early (preferably Tua), they may feel pressure to abandon that strategy and draft OL with one or both of their 2nd's. To be clear and fair, the trade down that netted the 2020 2nd and the trade for Rosen were worthwhile moves, but given my goals for 2020 and how highly I ranked McCoy, I would have just drafted him and slept well, knowing I have high floors and All-Pro potential at C and RG.

The Pats have cycled through olinemen and receivers. The Seahawks and Packers have as well. I think you can pretty much narrow down the requirements to a quarterback, coaching staff, and transcendent talent somewhere in the skill positions. This whole build it from the trenches argument is great if you know a QB is coming but the last thing you want to do is use all those resources and end up handing 15-20% of your cap to Cousins or Foles in a desperate attempt to get a couple years of contention.

 

[ANUFan]

If I were building an offence around a WR, it would be Thomas, Theilin from the Vikes, and Ju Ju. He is certainly top three. Thats not saying the others are top three but looking forward

I never suggested he's not a good receiver. But he's not the first guy on my team I'm giving $100M to sign. Especially, when you consider you have a QB like Drew Brees on your team.

Drew Brees can go to practically any team and make them instantly better!
Can Thomas do that? The answer should be obvious and so should the question. Why the hell I'm i giving that guy that type of money?

 

[DPhinz_DPhinz]

They are the living embodiment of big egos.

At the same time, did you or did you not get the feeling that with the exception of Wake, those were the only two that showed the average fan that they were there to play football?

IMO, the Phins have been a collection of football players with the talent to play in the NFL...but that's just it. They are simply playing in the NFL. There was rarely any purpose in what they were doing play after play...ESPECIALLY on offense. Then there was Landry and Ajayi and their 'egos' being cast away by a fake Alpha personality like Gase.

 

[j-off-her-doll]

The Pats have cycled through olinemen and receivers. The Seahawks and Packers have as well. I think you can pretty much narrow down the requirements to a quarterback, coaching staff, and transcendent talent somewhere in the skill positions. This whole build it from the trenches argument is great if you know a QB is coming but the last thing you want to do is use all those resources and end up handing 15-20% of your cap to Cousins or Foles in a desperate attempt to get a couple years of contention.

The Pats have the best OL coach in the league and maybe the history of the NFL, and the Packers are the other outlier team that has been able to get quality play from mid and late-round picks. The Seahawks invested a lot in OL and have been bad there for years.

Investing heavily in a mediocre QB is bad regardless of what you do with the rest of your roster.

 

[BlueFin]

This fact was mentioned every single game he was at FSU and in some games...3-4 times.

I was waiting for them to put that under his name instead of his season to date stats.

It is a pretty cool grandpa to have! I hear he comes to the games as well!

 

[ChambersWI]

The Pats have the best OL coach in the league and maybe the history of the NFL, and the Packers are the other outlier team that has been able to get quality play from mid and late-round picks. The Seahawks invested a lot in OL and have been bad there for years.

Investing heavily in a mediocre QB is bad regardless of what you do with the rest of your roster.

Keep in mind though with the Packers that their OL was horrendous for years as well and it took a few years to even get to where they are