Training Camp Day 6

[j-off-her-doll]

Keep in mind though with the Packers that their OL was horrendous for years as well and it took a few years to even get to where they are

Yep, and if you're drafting a QB in 2020 and/or don't want to waste the 2nd you spent on Rosen, it's probably not worth waiting for your cheap OL to get good.

 

[PhinsAAA]

Would you rather me just say low ceiling and limited ask as a pass catcher?

Or maybe it’s better if I just say he’s maximizing what he has to offer. Not leaving anything on the table

Maybe just say I had a wrong evaluation on the guy? When you have a team full of guys who are "maximizing what they have to offer, and not leaving anything on the table" you have a winning team. We would be lucky to have half the players doing such. And limited ask as a pass catcher? I guess all those reports about him catching everything in sight so far in preseason are wrong. Or the fact he came in midseason last year and was immediately an upgrade on the poaition.

 

[hoops]

Jake brendel starts at center today for the broncos in the hall of fame game. Not surprised.

Someone explain to me how/why that guys not in miamis camp this year?

 

[Rick Cartman]

I'd like for a South Florida beat reporter to define ""big ego". While they're at it, have the stones to identify the "big egos" so we can have a pointed discussion. As it stands, I'm left to say that Armando defines "big ego" as a player asking for more money at the conclusion of his contract. I'll go further to say that Armando is speaking about Landry and Ajayi (two mainstays from the successful, playoff season).

I think Armando is talking about Gase

 

[AL R]

Jake brendel starts at center today for the broncos in the hall of fame game. Not surprised.

Someone explain to me how/why that guys not in miamis camp this year?

Always potential, but had some injuries also. I would have kept him though

 

[hoops]

Always potential, but had some injuries also. I would have kept him though

Yeah I mean I’m sure the broncos starting center sat for the game but active depth on the interior why not? Compete with Kilgore? Yep

 

[BigNastyFish]

Carradine ran a 4.75 soon after recovering from his injury, but with the string of injuries, he probably lost some juice. Haven't given him a good look in some time. But, NE often rolls with 4.85+ DE's (C. Jones and T. Flowers), so it will be interesting to see how much Flores cares. The big difference (athletically) is that both Flowers and Jones had other high-end traits - agility for Jones and burst for Flowers. I think Leadbetter is too limited, but Woodard and Carradine should be functional in this scheme - probably rotational pieces in a perfect world but still solid fits. Harris has the size of NE's OLB's, but he's much slower than guys like J. Collins and K. Van Noy. In terms of profile, Van Ginkel is the most similar to what NE likes to put outside.

Said it before the draft, but I don't care about the talent of the Front 7 in 2019 - probably not in 2020 either. You can build a quality F7 pretty quickly, and I'd plan to spend all my premium resources on offense until I have the pieces to develop into a Top-10/Top-5 unit. I'd only deviate from that for special players. In 2019, Q. Williams and E. Oliver would have been the two players that would have been worth it. Like Wilkins a lot, but unless Miami hits Offense hard and effectively in 2020, you might have a year or two left on his rookie deal by the time Miami's Offense is good enough for the difference between Wilkins and a replacement-level player to matter. Even if you build an elite D, it won't stay elite for long. You might get one year where you're in contention, but you'll still be a longshot to beat a team with a great QB and Offense, and then you'll quickly fall back to earth - like Jacksonville and probably Chicago.

QB success is sustainable and more impactful. Even if you don't have the QB on your roster, your instincts should be like those of a future mother. You should prepare an environment for the future QB to thrive - OL and receiving options. I know that many view WR as one of Miami's strengths, which is probably true, but it's still a below-average group. If Miami went OL/OL in 2019, they'd be in a much better position to draft a WR in the Top 40 in 2020. If I was Miami, I would have gone Lindstrom (13) and McCoy (48) in 2019 with Tua (1) and T. Wallace/J. Reagor (33) as my targets in 2020. Instead, Miami is in the position to hope that they can piece together a good OL like NE. If they do draft a QB early (preferably Tua), they may feel pressure to abandon that strategy and draft OL with one or both of their 2nd's. To be clear and fair, the trade down that netted the 2020 2nd and the trade for Rosen were worthwhile moves, but given my goals for 2020 and how highly I ranked McCoy, I would have just drafted him and slept well, knowing I have high floors and All-Pro potential at C and RG.

You're good but too much speculation and conjecture in this over too any years to be credible IMO.

Kinda reads like armchair GM stuff. IMO.

That said, your point re McCoy may be dead on.

But that's speculation and conjecture on my part.

>>> enjoyed your take <<< BTW

:)

 

[j-off-her-doll]

Solid plan and more than likely the way they should have gone, I did have McCoy at 48 but not Lindstrom at 13 was looking to hard at the defense and the talent they shipped out. I have to admit I like the personality of Wilkins and I've convinced myself he will be here year 6 and I'm a bit tired of our better talent walking off after 1st contract.

Also not sure we get 1 and 33 but more than likely top 10

I do believe your on to something building the offense first, but if there's a DE in our top 3 picks Flores may pressure Grier to go in that direction.

Funny I didn't get you name and I know I've seen a dozen of your posts, just looked like the Christmas guy for some reason....cool name

Thanks! And, I could see Miami continuing to spend early picks on D. A guy with a background in D can either say, I can do more with less or look to build "the perfect unit" to execute his vision. Fwiw, NE has been cheaping DE for years, and they traded a top-5 pass rusher for a 2nd. Flores may not agree with those moves, though. Time will tell.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Thanks! And, I could see Miami continuing to spend early picks on D. A guy with a background in D can either say, I can do more with less or look to build "the perfect unit" to execute his vision. Fwiw, NE has been cheaping DE for years, and they traded a top-5 pass rusher for a 2nd. Flores may not agree with those moves, though. Time will tell.

I think it's Grier, not Flores.

I agree with you here. I think we all talked about it at length in the draft forum prior to the draft. Garrett Bradbury, Chris Lindstrom, Eric McCoy, Justin Hollins, Juan Thornhill, C. Gardner-Johnson....guys like these are the way I would've went on the first 2 days of the draft.

Wilkins was a fair pick. But I just don't think Grier gets it. He just don't.

 

[DPhinz_DPhinz]

I think it's Grier, not Flores.

I agree with you here. I think we all talked about it at length in the draft forum prior to the draft. Garrett Bradbury, Chris Lindstrom, Eric McCoy, Justin Hollins, Juan Thornhill, C. Gardner-Johnson....guys like these are the way I would've went on the first 2 days of the draft.

Wilkins was a fair pick. But I just don't think Grier gets it. He just don't.

Explain...

How does Grier not get it? I thought his drafting has been above average for the past several years.

 

[ckparrothead]

I think it's Grier, not Flores.

I agree with you here. I think we all talked about it at length in the draft forum prior to the draft. Garrett Bradbury, Chris Lindstrom, Eric McCoy, Justin Hollins, Juan Thornhill, C. Gardner-Johnson....guys like these are the way I would've went on the first 2 days of the draft.

Wilkins was a fair pick. But I just don't think Grier gets it. He just don't.

I don't think he has any guts. I think I've said that before. He's got the ultimate survivor's mentality. Don't stick your neck out. Don't make the risky evaluation. Don't take risks with big assets. Don't trade unless the value is widely perceptible. Don't push back if the coach initially disagrees on a player. Sit in the middle of the road, make the picks that are given to you, and hope for the best.

That is only going to work if the team stumbles upon an elite level quarterback. But it's a Catch 22 because the team is unlikely to just "stumble upon" one of those guys. It usually takes guts to get one.

 

[j-off-her-doll]

I think it's Grier, not Flores.

I agree with you here. I think we all talked about it at length in the draft forum prior to the draft. Garrett Bradbury, Chris Lindstrom, Eric McCoy, Justin Hollins, Juan Thornhill, C. Gardner-Johnson....guys like these are the way I would've went on the first 2 days of the draft.

Wilkins was a fair pick. But I just don't think Grier gets it. He just don't.

Yep, we definitely talked about it, and I believe you introduced the idea that it's better to start with the secondary. Garden-Johnson must have really bombed his interviews or something. Saints keep doing weird/impatient things and still keep landing stud prospects. Very strange FO.

 

[ckparrothead]

Yep, we definitely talked about it, and I believe you introduced the idea that it's better to start with the secondary. Garden-Johnson must have really bombed his interviews or something. Saints keep doing weird/impatient things and still keep landing stud prospects. Very strange FO.

Secondary investments are a bit higher in duration. Longer maturity. It would make sense to prioritize higher duration positions at the beginning of a rebuild.

I don't really have an issue with taking Wilkins or even focusing on the D. I'm fine with just taking the best players they could get their hands on. You know where I stand relative to that Rosen trade and the fact Juan Thornhill was available.



And I would've loved to find a way to get my hands on McCoy.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Explain...

How does Grier not get it? I thought his drafting has been above average for the past several years.

I'd argue that it's been average at best. The absolute best Grier will ever achieve in a given draft is average. He's a C-level performer at his job.

Even when he does manage to make a decent pick, some other team always ends up with the guy at the same position that was better that Grier passed on.

So you tell me when you believe Grier started buying the groceries and we'll discuss it from that point forward. I'll even let you pick where we start. It don't matter to me.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

I don't think he has any guts. I think I've said that before. He's got the ultimate survivor's mentality. Don't stick your neck out. Don't make the risky evaluation. Don't take risks with big assets. Don't trade unless the value is widely perceptible. Don't push back if the coach initially disagrees on a player. Sit in the middle of the road, make the picks that are given to you, and hope for the best.

That is only going to work if the team stumbles upon an elite level quarterback. But it's a Catch 22 because the team is unlikely to just "stumble upon" one of those guys. It usually takes guts to get one.

Absolutely, and you were dead on when you said it. I believe I even called it required reading.

We can make the case against Grier just based off the picks he made, without even considering all the quarterbacks Miami should've been aggressive in acquiring like Mahomes, Watson, etc.

As I said from the beginning - and what J-Doll's bigger point is - if these guys can't build an offensive line and find a franchise quarterback, nothing else they do will matter. They will not succeed together. Preparing an offensive line for the QB they plan to acquire in the future to build around, whether it's a 2020 pick or Josh Rosen or whoever, is the proper way to go about it.

When you have essentially nothing but UDFA's able to come in and win starting jobs on your offensive line a week into camp constantly - it's not ever going to be a good sign.