Tua Tale of the Tape

[SF Dolphin Fan]

Fair enough.

Passer rating is a very context dependent metric, IMO. A QB can have a pretty good PR, without moving the ball or scoring a lot of points. For example, Russel Wilson posted an impressive 103.1 but threw for barely 3100 yds, while TB had a PR of102.1 (1 point less) while throwing for an eye popping 5300 yds. It's obvious to me who was the better QB last year, and by a huge margin.

I think ESPN QBR is a better measure, but it still leaves a lot to be desired.

Before that final four game stretch last year, Tua was actually 7th in the ESPN ratings. I think he finished 18th or something like that.

I don't think we'll see the wildcat in the redzone under McDaniel either. Some trickery maybe, but I don't expect Tua to be removed in scoring range.

Obviously having Hill and Waddle will give Miami deep opportunities. Especially once the run game gets going.

 

[njFinsForever]

Fan doesnt have anything do w Tua being good or bad.

This is true, although I'm not sure where this fits into the conversation. I'm not saying fans can control or influence such a thing. Give the QB a legitimate supporting cast so we can truly evaluate whether or not he's cut out for the pros.

 

[utahphinsfan]

His lack of height just prevents him from seeing the field well. Its just an issue that cant be solved . Brees had the same issue but the Saints developed blocking schemes that allowed him for clearer lanes to see through.

Has Russell Wilson's height been a hinderance? Hint: Its rhetorical esp when you consider Tua is taller than Rw3

 

[utahphinsfan]

Before that final four game stretch last year, Tua was actually 7th in the ESPN ratings. I think he finished 18th or something like that.

I don't think we'll see the wildcat in the redzone under McDaniel either. Some trickery maybe, but I don't expect Tua to be removed in scoring range.

Obviously having Hill and Waddle will give Miami deep opportunities. Especially once the run game gets going.

Don't disagree; Though early on, the passing game might set up the running game

 

[EJay]

Try throwing a ball accurately to a 4.3 guy rather than a less talented slower guy.

And Tua has plenty of experience doing throwing to 4.2 and 4.3 guys.

And was the most efficient passer in NCAA history while doing it.

Couple that with experience throwing to all the lesser receivers available to him the past 2 seasons while Parker, Williams, Fuller, Bowden, etc. were largely all sitting out.

He’ll be ok.

 

[EJay]

His lack of height just prevents him from seeing the field well. Its just an issue that cant be solved . Brees had the same issue but the Saints developed blocking schemes that allowed him for clearer lanes to see through.

This is pure speculation, assumption on your part. Nothing more.

 

[EJay]

Has Russell Wilson's height been a hinderance? Hint: Its rhetorical esp when you consider Tua is taller than Rw3

As I said in my last post, he’s making assumptions and selling it as truth. Buying into an old narrative.

It could be true, partially true or completely untrue.

I’ve seen enough of Tua at Bama and in Miami to recognize that it’s really only an issue when the defenders are in his face — as they were most of last season within 2.5 seconds.

With a clean pocket — and more so when expecting a clean pocket — there’s really not much evidence to suggest he has any difficulty seeing the field.

 

[50 Years a Fan]

Before that final four game stretch last year, Tua was actually 7th in the ESPN ratings. I think he finished 18th or something like that.

I don't think we'll see the wildcat in the redzone under McDaniel either. Some trickery maybe, but I don't expect Tua to be removed in scoring range.

Obviously having Hill and Waddle will give Miami deep opportunities. Especially once the run game gets going.

But that is just it. Tua has proven accuracy and with a new oline, Offensive minded Coach, that accuracy is needed in the red zone, not wildcat, with speedsters with great hands and TE's. I see no reason that Tua will not perform this year big in the red zone! Hitting any one of them on a endzone crossing pattern!

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

But that is just it. Tua has proven accuracy and with a new oline, Offensive minded Coach, that accuracy is needed in the red zone, not wildcat, with speedsters with great hands and TE's. I see no reason that Tua will not perform this year big in the red zone!

I know Miami had some success with the wildcat in the redzone, but I never understood taking Tua out there.

Just having those opportunities will surely increase his number of touchdown passes.

 

[50 Years a Fan]

I know Miami had some success with the wildcat in the redzone, but I never understood taking Tua out there.

Just having those opportunities will surely increase his number of touchdown passes.

Yeah unfortunately, the lack of any consistent Oline performance and underwhelming offensive Coaches, pushed more for running game in the red zone which was ugly. Tua should be able to perform better in the redzone, and if not like I said before I think he has the capabilities, but he can be replaced. Just want to see what he really has this year!

 

[djphinfan]

And Tua has plenty of experience doing throwing to 4.2 and 4.3 guys.

And was the most efficient passer in NCAA history while doing it.

Couple that with experience throwing to all the lesser receivers available to him the past 2 seasons while Parker, Williams, Fuller, Bowden, etc. were largely all sitting out.

He’ll be ok.

I just think there is a basic misunderstanding from media pundits of what QB talent is and how to judge it, size, arm strength, athletic ability usually are the traits that they base it on.

 

[Mach2]

I just think there is a basic misunderstanding from media pundits of what QB talent is and how to judge it, size, arm strength, athletic ability usually are the traits that they base it on.

And you don't think there is good reason for including those things in an evaluation?

I mean let's be real here. If you have two guys that are equal in processing ability, reading defenses, etc (the mental part), but one also has elite physical attributes and the other doesn't, which guy do you want on your team?

 

[39wildman]

If Tua put up good number next 2 yr and he is our qb find but if Tua struggling

This is true, although I'm not sure where this fits into the conversation. I'm not saying fans can control or influence such a thing. Give the QB a legitimate supporting cast so we can truly evaluate whether or not he's cut out for the pros.

He is getting chance..he still starting...it up too him..too losed job or keep job...

 

[djphinfan]

And you don't think there is good reason for including those things in an evaluation?

I mean let's be real here. If you have two guys that are equal in processing ability, reading defenses, etc (the mental part), but one also has elite physical attributes and the other doesn't, which guy do you want on your team?

Innate Accuracy, set up speed, quick release, touch, ball handling, feel and instincts..

 

[Mach2]

Innate Accuracy, set up speed, quick release, touch, ball handling, feel and instincts..

That didn't address what I said.

Those are all positive traits but they are also, for the most part, unquantifiable and at least partly subjective except for " quick release" which can be measured. The problem with that is quick release by itself is meaningless. Its value is defendant upon many other things.

What I asked was that if you have two QBs that are equal in all the intangibles but one is a freak physical specimen while the other is average, which player are you going to take? I understand why you avoided answering directly, but you can't honestly say you would pick the lesser athlete.

I wasn't replying to promote any agenda. I was just answering your statement, and pointing out why media pundits put emphasis on the things that they do.

Take a look at some lists out there of top 10 QBs of the 21st century. Regardless of whether you agree with the order, or even some of the selections, they all have something in common. 8 big strong guys and two smallish guys (Wilson and Brees). Now it isn't an insult to anyone to point out the reality that is an 8:2 ratio. Put your fandom bias aside for a moment and look in a purely historic perspective. I as a Dolphin fan or even a football fan in general, really dislike some of the QBs that are widely considered top QBs, but the reality is big stronger armed guys have had more success overall than smallish average armed QBs. That isn't even arguable, IMO.

Now, you can "weight" it any way that you care to make a case for what you believe is the order of importance of QB attributes. That doesn't change what has been historically true a greater percentage of the time.