Tua vs Trevor - The Truth: Analysis

[Dsteve]

Ok. Like Namor said - you can’t fix stupid.

I give.

Ok fanboy...17 is wide open. It's clear as day. It's a great throw but he had his guy beat and the underneath help was nonexistent. This isn't being "thrown open", he's just open. There's almost 3 yards between him and the next guy and he continues to smoke the guy, untouched for a touchdown.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Ok fanboy...17 is wide open. It's clear as day. It's a great throw but he had his guy beat and the underneath help was nonexistent. This isn't being "thrown open", he's just open. There's almost 3 yards between him and the next guy and he continues to smoke the guy, untouched for a touchdown.

Have you been to the eye doctor lately?

I ain’t saying I have 20/20 anymore but either me, Gary Danielson, and 100,000 people in Neyland Stadium are blind - or you’re just too damn obtuse to waste time on.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Dsteve has it figured out. Everybody makes these throws Tua makes.

It’s official. He sucks. I apologize for wasting everyone’s time.

Let’s all go watch Trevor’s interceptions and wobbly passes and marvel at the greatest quarterback ever created.

 

[Jerrysanders]

Vertical Route - Jeudy - Threw him open





Vertical Route - Jeudy - Threw him open. Perfect throw (1:10 mark)





Vertical Route - Jeudy - Threw him open. Perfect throw :)25 second mark)






Somebody definitely needs their eyes checked. Mine ain’t as good as they used to be but even I can see these.

I said I don't consider verticals to be tight window throws, but even if your saying he's throwing these guys open in those clips I still disagree. On the 1st vid I Jeudy got late some late separation compared to the release of the ball but after the fake inside by Jeudy it was obvious he was gonna be open. (good anticipation by Tua) It's obvious we have different definitions on what being thrown open means, the 2nd clip Jeudy just burned the defense, in the 3rd clip Jeudy did a sick double move to get open.

 

[Jerrysanders]

I want you to tell me with a time stamp and which receiver the completion was to that was a tight window keyhole throw.

The only one was the 2nd TD pass to Justyn Ross up the seam on a VERTICAL ROUTE matched up with a safety Alohi Gilman. That was a perfect throw.

The rest were dropped by his receivers because he throws a wobbly ball - too high with too much velocity. All those drops are because he doesn’t throw a very catchable ball yet.

5:22 5:43 8:54 these are what I call tight window throws, throws where the wr has less 3 yards of separation or less and throws near the sideline because of the margin error on keeping the ball in play.

I'll admit there was some exaggeration on the throws going into the keyhole analogy but these are tight window throws nonetheless.


NC State

0:58 2:27 4:16 4:44 some more tight windows.

When I say thrown open I mean when the defender has great coverage and QB gets a completion due to placement even when the wr didn't create any separation.



This was posted earlier but I can't think of a better example

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

I said I don't consider verticals to be tight window throws, but even if your saying he's throwing these guys open in those clips I still disagree. On the 1st vid I Jeudy got late some late separation compared to the release of the ball but after the fake inside by Jeudy it was obvious he was gonna be open. (good anticipation by Tua) It's obvious we have different definitions on what being thrown open means, the 2nd clip Jeudy just burned the defense, in the 3rd clip Jeudy did a sick double move to get open.

Tight window throws are throws that have a very small margin for error. Those vertical routes have the least margin for error. The trajectory, along with placement over the correct shoulder has to be perfect. Especially to not even have to break stride.

The receiver can’t face the throw like he can on other routes - digs, outs, curls, slants, comebacks, etc. The receiver can’t adjust his body or extend his catch radius like he can on other routes. It’s all about the throw regardless of separation.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

5:22 5:43 8:54 these are what I call tight window throws, throws where the wr has less 3 yards of separation or less and throws near the sideline because of the margin error on keeping the ball in play.

I'll admit there was some exaggeration on the throws going into the keyhole analogy but these are tight window throws nonetheless.


NC State

0:58 2:27 4:16 4:44 some more tight windows.

When I say thrown open I mean when the defender has great coverage and QB gets a completion due to placement even when the wr didn't create any separation.



This was posted earlier but I can't think of a better example

The throw at 5:22 was literally a 3 yard slant. The ball was thrown 3 yards past the LOS. That wasn’t a tight window throw.

The one at 5:43 was just another case of Ross mossing another DB. The throw was high and Ross had to extend above his head to catch it.

The throw at 8:54 was a nice throw - over the underneath LB and in front of the safeties. Great throw.

But these throws are nowhere near the caliber of throws Tua is making. That’s why they’re not resulting in TD’s and Tua’s are.


I mean agreeing to disagree is one thing - but I don’t even think it’s really close between the two. Tua is vastly superior in the way the ball comes out of his hand, the accuracy of his throws, the way he moves in the pocket, manipulates defenders with his eyes, and throws guys open.

Like I said earlier in regards to the Anthony Treash tweet - Tua is throwing into tighter windows against better defenders and better defenses. That’s just a fact. His ball placement is so much better.

I don’t think it’s anywhere near as close between the two as a lot of people think it is. I think it’s that obvious if you know what you’re looking at.

 

[Jerrysanders]

Tight window throws are throws that have a very small margin for error. Those vertical routes have the least margin for error. The trajectory, along with placement over the correct shoulder has to be perfect. Especially to not even have to break stride.

The receiver can’t face the throw like he can on other routes - digs, outs, curls, slants, comebacks, etc. The receiver can’t adjust his body or extend his catch radius like he can on other routes. It’s all about the throw regardless of separation.

I guess you have misconceptions about the accuracy of QBs on deep passes, Vertical routes don't have the least margin for error because the ask is mainly to keep the ball in play and to get the ball in the vicinity of the wr so he can make a play, (most are throwing to a spot) The WR's ability to track the ball are huge factors in the success of the deep ball but QB's do have to be accurate on the routes you just mentioned.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

I guess you have misconceptions about the accuracy of QBs on deep passes, Vertical routes don't have the least margin for error because the ask is mainly to keep the ball in play and to get the ball in the vicinity of the wr so he can make a play, (most are throwing to a spot) The WR's ability to track the ball are huge factors in the success of the deep ball but QB's do have to be accurate on the routes you just mentioned.

I coached quarterbacks 30 years ago - I know what I’m talking about. My son played the position also. Even nowadays I’m on the field as many as 3 times a week.

I’m not guessing.

 

[Crump]

Vertical Route - Jeudy - Threw him open





Vertical Route - Jeudy - Threw him open. Perfect throw (1:10 mark)





Vertical Route - Jeudy - Threw him open. Perfect throw :)25 second mark)






Somebody definitely needs their eyes checked. Mine ain’t as good as they used to be but even I can see these.

i dont have a duck in the pond on either QB, both of these were great passes, neither of these were throwing him open though. those examples were the equivalent of Henne throwing Ginn Jr open against revis island. And noone has ever said Henne ever threw anyone open. both those examples were more like "Gotcha bitch" when you knew the DB was toast and they werent in the correct defense to match up with the play. Which play recognition is just as important as throwing a wr open, since Tua knew he had the coverage he wanted on both those passes.

like i said im on board fully with Tua, I'm not a fanboy of either, but if he able to read a D and know that he's gonna have Grant open on a vertical before he's actually open just due to speed, then well thatd be friggin awesome, I do think this weekend im going to watch the entire hour of all of Tua's throws for last season. I know it was dumb luck but the crazy part was, the 5 times i jumped around on timeline i just happen to land on a bad play. NOT KNOCKING HIM, my luck has been **** lately, so of course i would click on bad throw, overthrow reciever, pressure ball thrown into ground, pressure ball thrown in to ground lol.

but anyways ill def grab me a 12 pack and watch all the throws. Start watching it around 3, then Bama-NM State at 4, then the real game of the week, ECU vs the powerhouse Gardner Webb at 6, my new love Sam Howell vs Miami at 8, sounds like a great day for drinking and pissing the wife off since im supposed to be getting the house ready for the big opening day cookout to watch Miami and Carolina get **** stomped Sunday in front of all of our friends/family

 

[hoops]

Vertical Route - Jeudy - Threw him open





Vertical Route - Jeudy - Threw him open. Perfect throw (1:10 mark)





Vertical Route - Jeudy - Threw him open. Perfect throw :)25 second mark)






Somebody definitely needs their eyes checked. Mine ain’t as good as they used to be but even I can see these.

First 2 videos it’s telling me aren’t available. The last one is that you narrating? Lol. That cats yelling at us ha ha. He complains about contain play on a zone read where the slot wr is picked up by the safety after the blitz slot corner. But renfro sees it pre snap and even points it out. Yes the edge defender gets caught with his head inside but he’s a stiff move athlete anyways and imo they just caught you in a bad defense once that safety has to replace and pick up renfro. That edge defender should have better awareness of where the action is taking place to his side in front of him post snap but I doubt he’s gonna get horizontal enough to shut that down given the athlete.

If the boundary wr can keep the boundary db wide enough post snap that’s a walk in pretty much.

Anyways just a play I noticed him complaining about.

 

[hoops]

TD pass to Waddle (1:53). Gary Danielson can’t even believe what he just saw...

That’s an exceptional throw. Doesn’t even lead him out of bounds. Over the trail db and the front side trying to get depth one.

Coverage beater

 

[hoops]

5:22 5:43 8:54 these are what I call tight window throws, throws where the wr has less 3 yards of separation or less and throws near the sideline because of the margin error on keeping the ball in play.

I'll admit there was some exaggeration on the throws going into the keyhole analogy but these are tight window throws nonetheless.


NC State

0:58 2:27 4:16 4:44 some more tight windows.

When I say thrown open I mean when the defender has great coverage and QB gets a completion due to placement even when the wr didn't create any separation.



This was posted earlier but I can't think of a better example

Love that throw but tuas tapes littered with that too.

 

[nick1]

They are both great why compare? Other then fans who want to say their favorite team has the better QB

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

i dont have a duck in the pond on either QB, both of these were great passes, neither of these were throwing him open though. those examples were the equivalent of Henne throwing Ginn Jr open against revis island. And noone has ever said Henne ever threw anyone open. both those examples were more like "Gotcha bitch" when you knew the DB was toast and they werent in the correct defense to match up with the play. Which play recognition is just as important as throwing a wr open, since Tua knew he had the coverage he wanted on both those passes.

like i said im on board fully with Tua, I'm not a fanboy of either, but if he able to read a D and know that he's gonna have Grant open on a vertical before he's actually open just due to speed, then well thatd be friggin awesome, I do think this weekend im going to watch the entire hour of all of Tua's throws for last season. I know it was dumb luck but the crazy part was, the 5 times i jumped around on timeline i just happen to land on a bad play. NOT KNOCKING HIM, my luck has been **** lately, so of course i would click on bad throw, overthrow reciever, pressure ball thrown into ground, pressure ball thrown in to ground lol.

but anyways ill def grab me a 12 pack and watch all the throws. Start watching it around 3, then Bama-NM State at 4, then the real game of the week, ECU vs the powerhouse Gardner Webb at 6, my new love Sam Howell vs Miami at 8, sounds like a great day for drinking and pissing the wife off since im supposed to be getting the house ready for the big opening day cookout to watch Miami and Carolina get **** stomped Sunday in front of all of our friends/family

Don't waste your time. I just don't think it's going to do you any good.