Tua vs Trevor - The Truth: Analysis

[Pachyderm_Wave]

First 2 videos it’s telling me aren’t available. The last one is that you narrating? Lol. That cats yelling at us ha ha. He complains about contain play on a zone read where the slot wr is picked up by the safety after the blitz slot corner. But renfro sees it pre snap and even points it out. Yes the edge defender gets caught with his head inside but he’s a stiff move athlete anyways and imo they just caught you in a bad defense once that safety has to replace and pick up renfro. That edge defender should have better awareness of where the action is taking place to his side in front of him post snap but I doubt he’s gonna get horizontal enough to shut that down given the athlete.

If the boundary wr can keep the boundary db wide enough post snap that’s a walk in pretty much.

Anyways just a play I noticed him complaining about.

All you have to do is click on the wording inside the top of the video.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

This thread is obviously going about like all those Drew Lock threads. Very few people on this board have any idea what they're looking at when it comes to football. It's ok to admit it instead of constantly pretending that you do. I promise I will help to teach anyone that wants to know what they're seeing if they just ask. It's that simple.

 

[Crump]

Don't waste your time. I just don't think it's going to do you any good.

why wont it do me any good? i wouldnt be going into the video hating him or in love with him, just interested in watching. i wasnt tying to be an ass by saying the two video's you posted tua didnt actually thrown the WR open. it was just the cb's were destroyed by the WR. like i said, both beautiful passes, but neither throwing him open. like i said those are what you called "gotcha bitch" type plays if the WR is mic'd up

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

why wont it do me any good? i wouldnt be going into the video hating him or in love with him, just interested in watching. i wasnt tying to be an *** by saying the two video's you posted tua didnt actually thrown the WR open. it was just the cb's were destroyed by the WR. like i said, both beautiful passes, but neither throwing him open. like i said those are what you called "gotcha bitch" type plays if the WR is mic'd up

You obviously don't know what throwing a WR open is. I mean you people even have guys that played quarterback in the NFL calling some of these games and admitting that Tua throws the guy open - and you still argue that he didn't. I'm just not going to continue this nonsense.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Dude I don't care if you like him or not. This entire thread was supposed to be about breaking down and analyzing the football parts of it - but as usual nobody knows enough to do it so it just becomes a bunch of fan this and fan that.

This is why it's good to be able to talk about these type things on forums like CoachHuey.com where you can discuss things with real people (coaches) that know what's going on. It was stupid to even try it here.

 

[ckparrothead]

I wasn’t replying to the topic of who is better. I was replying to your words and statement about indisputable numbers. Who’s better is disputable.

For the record, not that anyone cares. But I’m on the Tua camp. His anticipation and placement is high level. Lawrence has a little more arm ‘talent’ and his size and athletic ability is amazing. But his anticipation and accuracy are not on Tua’s level yet. And as a true freshmen I understand. But right this second I take Tua 10/10 today.

You're putting words in my mouth so that you can argue against it.

What you say that I said...I did not say.

 

[ckparrothead]

I think it's pretty clear we don't have agreement about what it means to throw a player open, and it almost feels like there's some conflation happening between that and tight window throws.

Some of the throws Slimm has brought up from Tua Tagovailoa are exquisite examples of leading the receiver into the open with a perfect throw, and as Slimm said that's why they're touchdowns.

 

[Crump]

tried watching the first 7 videos to see if there was anything i was missing, it was a tua slobber fest. but a couple points, you're talking about "fans" being in discussion on a topic on a "fan" forum. that'll make you scratch your chin. before i got sick watching the videos...yes i already knew Tua could throw with great anticipation, when i watch that youtube of every throw without the **** dialogue i know i will see awesome touch, anticipation, and throwing wide recievers open.

ALL i said was in the vertical videos you singled out passes on, THE WR WAS NOT THROWN OPEN. It was a great read on the coverage and the WR's made the CB's their bitches. Tua didnt overly have to try to hold the safety to keep them from coming over for deep help, or did he pull them off the intended WR. the ball was in the perfect location, the first was a "gotcha bitch" single move that allowed him to just blow by the DB. with the S not helping out Tua could put it right on the spot. if it would've had to turn into a corner fade to throw away from the S trying to get over or the CB if he wasnt toast THEN THAT would've been throwing him open.

the 2nd video you saw the wr hand fly up at about the 10-15 yard mark meaning he knew he had his man toast from get go

the 3rd video was just a nice throw. he probably could've thrown him more open since the wr had a lot of room towards the sideline, but no use to do that when you can hit the route in stride.

if you want to tell me where im incorrect in any of those assessments I'm honestly more than welcome to listen. I'm like Johnny 5, i love to absorb knowledge. nobody can every know enough, and if im ever ignorant in my statements i like to be educated as to how im ignorant instead of just being told "cause i said so". Dialogue leads to understanding, pissing in the wind doesnt. You DO NOT throw a wr open who has his man beat with no coverage over the top, unless you were able to hold the safety and thats more looking the man open

 

[hoops]

Dude I don't care if you like him or not. This entire thread was supposed to be about breaking down and analyzing the football parts of it - but as usual nobody knows enough to do it so it just becomes a bunch of fan this and fan that.

This is why it's good to be able to talk about these type things on forums like CoachHuey.com where you can discuss things with real people (coaches) that know what's going on. It was stupid to even try it here.

This board needs more of that meat and potatoes. Whether we agree on some things or not. That’s most the reason I even want to be here.

But that’s also the main reason I stopped posting threads or my own analysis. Cause you got to deal with so much noise.

At some point you just waive the white flag and say f it I’m done.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

tried watching the first 7 videos to see if there was anything i was missing, it was a tua slobber fest. but a couple points, you're talking about "fans" being in discussion on a topic on a "fan" forum. that'll make you scratch your chin. before i got sick watching the videos...yes i already knew Tua could throw with great anticipation, when i watch that youtube of every throw without the **** dialogue i know i will see awesome touch, anticipation, and throwing wide recievers open.

ALL i said was in the vertical videos you singled out passes on, THE WR WAS NOT THROWN OPEN. It was a great read on the coverage and the WR's made the CB's their bitches. Tua didnt overly have to try to hold the safety to keep them from coming over for deep help, or did he pull them off the intended WR. the ball was in the perfect location, the first was a "gotcha bitch" single move that allowed him to just blow by the DB. with the S not helping out Tua could put it right on the spot. if it would've had to turn into a corner fade to throw away from the S trying to get over or the CB if he wasnt toast THEN THAT would've been throwing him open.

the 2nd video you saw the wr hand fly up at about the 10-15 yard mark meaning he knew he had his man toast from get go

the 3rd video was just a nice throw. he probably could've thrown him more open since the wr had a lot of room towards the sideline, but no use to do that when you can hit the route in stride.

if you want to tell me where im incorrect in any of those assessments I'm honestly more than welcome to listen. I'm like Johnny 5, i love to absorb knowledge. nobody can every know enough, and if im ever ignorant in my statements i like to be educated as to how im ignorant instead of just being told "cause i said so". Dialogue leads to understanding, pissing in the wind doesnt. You DO NOT throw a wr open who has his man beat with no coverage over the top, unless you were able to hold the safety and thats more looking the man open

Where you're getting it wrong here is the assertion that you can't throw a WR open that's already stacked his man and is "open" by 2 or 3 steps. You can throw a guy "covered" if he's already open.

What you're describing is throwing the ball into a window. If it's resulting in touchdowns where receivers can maximize YAC - you're throwing the guy open.

Tua's receivers never have to break stride. They can accelerate through the catch point because he's throwing them open.




This is also throwing his receiver open - look at the TD throw here to Jeudy at the :40 second mark:










Nevermind what he does here to avoid the sack and get the ball off - just look at the throw:

 

[hoops]

Where you're getting it wrong here is the assertion that you can't throw a WR open that's already stacked his man and is "open" by 2 or 3 steps. You can throw a guy "covered" if he's already open.

What you're describing is throwing the ball into a window. If it's resulting in touchdowns where receivers can maximize YAC - you're throwing the guy open.

Tua's receivers never have to break stride. They can accelerate through the catch point because he's throwing them open.




This is also throwing his receiver open - look at the TD throw here to Jeudy at the :40 second mark:










Nevermind what he does here to avoid the sack and get the ball off - just look at the throw:

That first clip that placement and timing is just silly. I mean that ball is 3 inches from the dbs back turned and a nanosecond before his head turns back around on arrival. Whoof

I don’t see how anyone can call that not generational talent. You just can’t do that any better

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

This board needs more of that meat and potatoes. Whether we agree on some things or not. That’s most the reason I even want to be here.

But that’s also the main reason I stopped posting threads or my own analysis. Cause you got to deal with so much noise.

At some point you just waive the white flag and say f it I’m done.

It's true. Fans are so biased in support of their own crappy quarterbacks that they think everybody else is that way too.

This has nothing to do with the uniform that kid is wearing. Go back and read all my comments on Jalen Hurts before Tua finally took over. I watched receivers run wide open for 2 years while Jalen just stood there and couldn't pull the trigger.

If Tua was at Clemson and Trevor was at Alabama my view wouldn't change one bit. It's Tua.

 

[Crump]

the first throw you posted was definately throwing him open. (awesome play too), the second play, was an awesome play by tua, great seeing he had his man wide open deep, but wasnt thrown open. THAT was awesome recognition of his man breaking deep behind the CB while tua was running for his life, and awesome throw to get it there, but once again his man was open.

and if you're are faster than the guy thats covering you and you have 2-3 steps on him, that might as well be considered 2-3 yards if you put the pass on point. like i sad the videos earlier were hitting the wr perfectly in stride, the 1st, vid, he was covered but once he made the move for all intents and purposes he was open, the other two, the db's were just toast.

i consider a window when you know you have that about 3x3 radius or whatever in the zones, or near the sideline, or potentially between defenders. i wouldnt even say the first one he was throwing to a window since i disagreed with the throwing open, i would say more like throwing to a spot...unless a spot is also considered a window. And trust me i've been a fin fan for 36 years, i know good and dang well you can throw an open wr covered. i just consider when you have an inferior db beat by a step or off balance that the WR is already open.

maybe thats where we differ in our discussion, the first 3 and the last video, i see 4 open wr's, despite the fact at the time the CB was still on top of the WR in the first, like i said, once he hit that move, it was over, he was open, tua could've thrown it to any spot on that side of the field and as long as it wasnt underthrown it was a td.

 

[hoops]

Where you're getting it wrong here is the assertion that you can't throw a WR open that's already stacked his man and is "open" by 2 or 3 steps. You can throw a guy "covered" if he's already open.

What you're describing is throwing the ball into a window. If it's resulting in touchdowns where receivers can maximize YAC - you're throwing the guy open.

Tua's receivers never have to break stride. They can accelerate through the catch point because he's throwing them open.




This is also throwing his receiver open - look at the TD throw here to Jeudy at the :40 second mark:










Nevermind what he does here to avoid the sack and get the ball off - just look at the throw:

That pocket movement is Russell Wilson like. Both clips

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Well, a lot of you just see things the way you see it. I don't know.

The only way I know how to do it is my way. I've seen every throw Tua, Trevor, and just about every other quarterback in the country has made. I have that database in my head until the day my memory fails me.