Tua's Next. Be prepared. | Page 45 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Tua's Next. Be prepared.

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gregorygrant83 said:
Thanks, you're right. I was thinking that didn't sound right because Mallett was several years younger.
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That whole situation was strange.

Brady was a far better QB, but Hensen was a local boy that the boosters loved.

Boosters, as in big $ donations, had a lot of sway at the time.
 
Mach2 said:
That whole situation was strange.

Brady was a far better QB, but Hensen was a local boy that the boosters loved.

Boosters, as in big $ donations, had a lot of sway at the time.
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I actually liked Brady at MIchigan and thought he was underrated. A lot of Michigan fans were so happy when Henson was put at the helm. I thought it was raw deal and Brady handled it well. At least publicly. Knowing what we know about Brady now, I'm sure he was boiling and letting it known he wasn't happy.
 
Induperator said:
Guys...

Tua has made improvements...

He does get the ball out faster
He is making his reads faster

His arm is still a problem
And they do not trust his health enough to have him make multiple reads or be anything of a "Pocket Passer."

So there are things to celebrate. But the approach limits him and his growth in other ways

I do not see that changing.

I also do not see him making his reads faster than he is now or getting the ball out faster than he is now. I think he has peaked in these areas.
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I see people are upset with this post. I will try to ask honestly: "Seriously, what do you think the trajectory is for physical growth and improvement?"

See in a sport like say baseball you peak at or before the age of 25... You stay at or close to that level for a handful of years and then you start to decline... The decline accelerates as you pass the age of 30... (It is not so very different in football.) Bill James studied baseball statistics and looked at the age of the players and noticed a correlation between career numbers and ages at or less than 25 years old. Tens of thousands of players over a 100 year span... The sample size is enormous and the data is undeniable.

Without looking deep into this (I enjoy a good debate, but I am also lazy) There has to be studies like this for football as well.

Now it has happened that players in baseball got better later in life... It was not physical for these guys... It was mental


So if you argued that Tua's mental maturity could improve slightly... I would listen to that argument. (It might not be a great argument, but I would listen)

But if we are talking about physical ability or Physical performance. There comes a point in football like baseball where physically players peak and then start to decline.

Tua has been in the league for 5 years now. I know he was not the starter the whole time and we all know he missed time due to injuries. But Physically he is in his prime... He should be at or very close to his peak physically. He is never going to be able to move his feet faster... or rotate his hips faster... His reflexes and reactions times will not get any better than they are now.


So... How much more improvement can we expect in terms of getting the football out faster? or making the reads faster.


It takes so long for the eyeball to process what is in front of it. Then it takes time to send the message to the brain. Then it takes time to process this and to decide what to do. Tua's brain is young... He is in his prime... As he ages from here his processing time can only go down.

So where is the improvement going to come from with Tua? Judgement? Accuracy? See maybe he makes miniscule improvements in this category... But noticable jumps ahead are very unlikely. And be fair....(For the Tua fans here.) How often have you praised his accuracy or his maturity? I am betting a lot. So it is not logical for people to now argue that Tua was lacking in these areas and thus likely for massive improvement. He is already atop of the league in accuracy and maturity.

From what I have seen here with the Tua fans, is nothing but praise about how he has improved etc... I have not seen people posting that his footwork sucks and needs massive improvement. I have not seen posts where people break down his throwing motion and state that he needs massive improvement. So you all mostly agree the footwork, the arm angle, the release point, the hip rotation have been great. So if Tua has all of this room for improvement and growth. Where is it going to come from? In the areas I just made an example of... The ones where the bulk of the posters here do not think Tua needs major improvement? No massive improvement is unlikely (Because he is already sound in these areas.)

So any improvement from Tua is going to be miniscule. Which is why I said that maybe we have seen who Tua is... And that I do not feel it is likely he will make any noticable improvements.

I know this was wordy... But please enlighten me how we should expect these better numbers from Tua.

Remember that Brady had rings before he was 26... So does Mahomes. Marino and Burrow went to the superbowl before they were 26...I know Matt Stafford did not get to the Superbowl until he was in his 30's But he needed to get on a team with elite weapons around him to get his ring. Tua has the elite weapons...


The more the league changes and the more the QB's are paid the more important it is to win with the QB on his rookie contract.
 
Induperator said:
I see people are upset with this post. I will try to ask honestly: "Seriously, what do you think the trajectory is for physical growth and improvement?"

See in a sport like say baseball you peak at or before the age of 25... You stay at or close to that level for a handful of years and then you start to decline... The decline accelerates as you pass the age of 30... (It is not so very different in football.) Bill James studied baseball statistics and looked at the age of the players and noticed a correlation between career numbers and ages at or less than 25 years old. Tens of thousands of players over a 100 year span... The sample size is enormous and the data is undeniable.

Without looking deep into this (I enjoy a good debate, but I am also lazy) There has to be studies like this for football as well.

Now it has happened that players in baseball got better later in life... It was not physical for these guys... It was mental


So if you argued that Tua's mental maturity could improve slightly... I would listen to that argument. (It might not be a great argument, but I would listen)

But if we are talking about physical ability or Physical performance. There comes a point in football like baseball where physically players peak and then start to decline.

Tua has been in the league for 5 years now. I know he was not the starter the whole time and we all know he missed time due to injuries. But Physically he is in his prime... He should be at or very close to his peak physically. He is never going to be able to move his feet faster... or rotate his hips faster... His reflexes and reactions times will not get any better than they are now.


So... How much more improvement can we expect in terms of getting the football out faster? or making the reads faster.


It takes so long for the eyeball to process what is in front of it. Then it takes time to send the message to the brain. Then it takes time to process this and to decide what to do. Tua's brain is young... He is in his prime... As he ages from here his processing time can only go down.

So where is the improvement going to come from with Tua? Judgement? Accuracy? See maybe he makes miniscule improvements in this category... But noticable jumps ahead are very unlikely. And be fair....(For the Tua fans here.) How often have you praised his accuracy or his maturity? I am betting a lot. So it is not logical for people to now argue that Tua was lacking in these areas and thus likely for massive improvement. He is already atop of the league in accuracy and maturity.

From what I have seen here with the Tua fans, is nothing but praise about how he has improved etc... I have not seen people posting that his footwork sucks and needs massive improvement. I have not seen posts where people break down his throwing motion and state that he needs massive improvement. So you all mostly agree the footwork, the arm angle, the release point, the hip rotation have been great. So if Tua has all of this room for improvement and growth. Where is it going to come from? In the areas I just made an example of... The ones where the bulk of the posters here do not think Tua needs major improvement? No massive improvement is unlikely (Because he is already sound in these areas.)

So any improvement from Tua is going to be miniscule. Which is why I said that maybe we have seen who Tua is... And that I do not feel it is likely he will make any noticable improvements.

I know this was wordy... But please enlighten me how we should expect these better numbers from Tua.

Remember that Brady had rings before he was 26... So does Mahomes. Marino and Burrow went to the superbowl before they were 26...I know Matt Stafford did not get to the Superbowl until he was in his 30's But he needed to get on a team with elite weapons around him to get his ring. Tua has the elite weapons...


The more the league changes and the more the QB's are paid the more important it is to win with the QB on his rookie contract.
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I agree with almost everything you stated except for the peak age, I think you’re off a couple years. I think 27, is when athletes peak and as you stated, maintain that level for a number of years. When they reach 30, they start their decline.
 
Mach2 said:
That whole situation was strange.

Brady was a far better QB, but Hensen was a local boy that the boosters loved.

Boosters, as in big $ donations, had a lot of sway at the time.
Click to expand...
Brady was 20 - 5 at Michigan.

There was certainly more going on there instead of having the best QB on the field at the time. Strange is a good description....
 
dolfanattic5 said:
Ckparrot with the mic drop:

“This isn’t just talk by Tua. It’s evident even on short clips the Dolphins post on social media. The first two pictures (bucket hat) are Tua in 2022, and the second two are this year.

The still frames are taken, 1) at the end of his windup and 2) at the ball’s release. The old set shows how much hip rotation he’s doing WHILE the ball comes forward, and the newer set shows that he’s mostly already gotten his hips around before he’s even done with his windup, before the ball is moving forward.

One thing people tend to dismiss about Tua is how malleable/coachable he is.

Last year many thought the jiu jitsu thing was a laughable gimmick. Then we saw it in action and there were discrete changes in the way he played the game. He went from a guy who couldn’t keep himself off the injury report to one of only a handful of QBs who actually played all 17 regular season games.

This is a guy who had six different offensive coordinators in the six years before he met Mike McDaniel. Even in just his NFL career he went from being an RPO guy under Flores to a west coast play-action guy under McDaniel, winning games regardless of approach, regardless of the quality of the skill players or offensive line.

People tend to be impatient and unrealistic. They want a guy to 1) learn a brand new offense, 2) rehab a surgically repaired hip, 3) change your body’s makeup, 4) learn how to handle NFL caliber hits and physicality, and 5) fine tune your throwing motion, and to do it all overnight. Oh and let’s do all that as a rookie without training camp or preseason, during a global pandemic. You mean you haven’t done all that yet? What a bum! Fire him into the sun.

Reality is very different and we see that in pro athletes across the board. We see it in the NBA as players (e.g. Bam Adebayo) add pieces to their game one off season at a time.

The point is when Tua has to undertake these tasks, you discretely see the progress every time. When he has to learn the new offense, he learns the new offense. When he has to get stronger, he gets stronger. When he has to slim down, he slims down. When he has to rehab and make you forget he just had a career threatening broken hip, he makes you forget about the career threatening broken hip. When he has to learn how to absorb NFL caliber hits without putting his head at risk, he becomes one of the best in the NFL at protecting himself. When he has to fine tune his throwing motion, he shows you the new motion while maintaining his trademark accuracy.

Don’t underestimate how valuable that is in a professional player because it’s not as common as you think. Most players by the time they get to a certain point kind of just are who they are, and their circumstances/opportunities might change (which can lead to breakouts and such) but the player hasn’t actually changed much.

Players don’t get paid retroactively in the NFL. They get paid on what a team thinks they will be in the future during the life of the contract. Miami feels pretty safe in the knowledge that Tua will be able to roll with the punches, re-learn the things that adversity forces him to re-learn, and improve on the things he sets to improve, because he has an established history of doing exactly that.

And that’s ultimately why agreement on a contract extension seems like a foregone conclusion.”
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It’s not a mic drop because he’s not correct about what he’s trying to say he’s seeing in the still pictures. He’s seeing what he wants…

Not saying he hasn’t improved mechanically. I’m a Tom House fan. But CK is wrong.
 
Here's the deal; it's supply and demand. Is Tua worth 50+ mil a year? Probably not, as are alot of the other QB's getting that. Is there another viable option for a team that is trying to win now? Not that I can think of. The market for QB's is inflated because there just aren't that many good ones. Here are some of the guys that are the starters right now in the NFL:
Jarret Stidham (or a rookie)
Anthony Richardson (unproven, basically a rookie)
Aidan O'Connell or Gardner Minshew
Jacoby Brissett (or Drake Maye)
Russell Wilson
Will Levis
Bryce Young
Sam Darnold
Derek Carr
Daniel Jones
Geno Smith
Baker Mayfield
A couple of rookies
 
Guys, I don’t like asparagus.

I mean, I support it as a vegetable, but I just don’t think you can do all that much with it.

It’s not like it’s the central part of a dish. If we’re being honest with ourselves, asparagus needs a dish more than a dish needs asparagus.

I will now go on to repeat that I am not in favor of asparagus in several dozen different ways, and accuse ANYONE who disagrees with me of being unrealistic asparagus lovers who unzip in the frozen foods section.

Is that about what our friend here is doing?
 
Nappy Roots said:
It’s not a mic drop because he’s not correct about what he’s trying to say he’s seeing in the still pictures. He’s seeing what he wants…

Not saying he hasn’t improved mechanically. I’m a Tom House fan. But CK is wrong.
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Care to explain why?
 
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