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Tua's Next. Be prepared.

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This thread is fricking exhausting.

I wish the majority of the Anti-extension crowd would just say "I don't think Tua is good enough to get Miami to a Super Bowl" and be done with it. We get it...you don't like him. Stop trying to dress it up with "The front office probably thinks" or "I'm sure Ross feels," etc., and trying to pass it off as tangible evidence to support your Anti-Tua rhetoric. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Anyway, here are the following counter-arguments I've been able to sift out of here:

Point 1: "Let Tua play under his fifth-year contract and then franchise tag him."

Okay, sure. Aside from Tua playing (assuming he does) on a one-year deal in 2024, you're probably going to be paying him close to $50mm per year in 2025 anyway. And then, if he plays well, you're either paying him close to $70mm the following year or signing him to one of the craziest contracts in NFL history.

There's also this little point that hasn't been addressed with this whole counter-argument, and it's one that should scare the bejeezus out of everyone. If Tua stays healthy and plays well, and leads Miami to...say, the AFC Championship Game in 2024-25, which isn't some crazy pipe dream...everything will look rosy for 2025. Super Bowl aspirations. Everything's great, right? Wrong. Tua now really has Miami by the short hairs.

Miami can franchise tag Tua all they want. He doesn't have to sign it. He can tell Miami "Either sign me to the biggest contract in QB history, or I sit out 2025."

Point 2: "Let Tua play under his fifth-year contract and then sign him to an extension"

For the love of God...why? Unless you think Tua regresses severely or misses half the season, all you're doing is delaying everything a year. And if you don't think next year will be more expensive than this year, I don't know what to tell you.

Point 3: "Tua needs Miami more than Miami needs Tua"



No.

Just no. Miami without Tua is a 6 win team. Fewer butts in the seats. Fewer merchandising dollars. They're set up to compete with their current roster for the next two seasons.

Anyway, the way Miami is set up right now is to extend Tua. It just makes the most sense. A contract can be worked to tie Tua to Miami through the 2027 season. After that, if it doesn't work out, he's off the payroll.

If you want to make the argument that QBs make too much money, and there are alternative ways to come up with QB solutions, I'm all ears (and I believe that's what Pittsburgh is doing). But for right now and the immediate future, they're just not set up that way.

If you want my opinion (and it is just my opinion) on what might be holding up the contract, it's that sentence that Tua said last offseason, when he "thought about retiring." If I'm Miami's Front Office, I'm saying something to the effect of "If you have another injury and decide to retire after the 24-25 or 25-26 season, some of those signing bonuses that extend out through the 2028 season must be repaid to the club." I'm not sure how well that would work with the NFLPA, but it would be in the back of my mind.
 
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Anyway, the way Miami is set up right now is to extend Tua. It just makes the most sense. A contract can be worked to tie Tua to Miami through the 2027 season. After that, if it doesn't work out, he's off the payroll.
Off the payroll? Nope, its not the way its going to work if the Tuanoners get their and sign him to a contract with heavy guarantees

Example
Bryon Jones (remember him) these are his cap charges for the last two years. That is correct 16M from a contract in what 2020 for a middling CB. Can you imagine the impact that a bad QB contract would cause? Ask Denver. You want to sign him, I really do not care what the yearly average, I DO CARE about any guarantees, because I think he either gets hurt or further underperforms when we can't pay the Hills, Waddles ++++++.
Screenshot 2024-07-03 093058.jpg
 
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What a disappointing and completely untrue post from you.
Tua has done nothing in his first 4 years that establishes him as an elite playmaker, I’ve watched every snap. Not saying he’s been bad, but certainly not elite unless it’s against the hapless Broncos. He can still be a special/elite, but he’s not there right now. Teams definitely game plan for Reek and worry about him, take him out of the lineup and people aren’t gonna be worried about Tua beating them with his arms/legs. Teams will only fear Tua when he starts winning important games consistently, we’ve got a long way to go to get there.
 
Off the payroll? Nope, its not the way its going to work if the Tuanoners get their and sign him to a contract with heavy guarantees

Example
Bryon Jones (remember him) this is his cap charges for the last two years. That is right 16M from a contract in what 2020 for a middling CB. Can you imagine the impact that a bad QB contract would cause? Ask Denver. You want to sign him, I really do not care what the yearly average, I DO CARE about any guarantees, because I think he either gets hurt or further underperforms when we can't pay the Hills, Waddles ++++++.
View attachment 172938

Look at Lawrence’s contract. The Jags can move on from him after the third year of his extension. That’s about what I believe should be done.
 
Tua has done nothing in his first 4 years that establishes him as an elite playmaker, I’ve watched every snap. Not saying he’s been bad, but certainly not elite unless it’s against the hapless Broncos. He can still be a special/elite, but he’s not there right now. Teams definitely game plan for Reek and worry about him, take him out of the lineup and people aren’t gonna be worried about Tua beating them with his arms/legs. Teams will only fear Tua when he starts winning important games consistently, we’ve got a long way to go to get there.

Without addressing each individual point, I firmly disagree with almost this entire post.
 
Incorrect. He traded up for Waddle,
after trading down from 3 to 12. Mack Hollins. What’s your point?
Not the right way to look at the move from 3 to 12 to 6 in that draft. It was a package deal, we were not moving out of the top 6 (per Grier who coveted one of the top playmakers in that draft) so the first trade from 3 to 12 never happens if the 2nd trade back to 6 wasn't already set up. Given the package of trades we moved from 3 to 6 and picked up a future 1st and 3rd round pick. I'd call that trading down for Waddle and picking up additional draft picks in the process.
 
Look at Lawrence’s contract. The Jags can move on from him after the third year of his extension. That’s about what I believe should be done.
Exactly. Not only can they move on, but there would also be no dead money associated with doing so.

The way that contract is portrayed and what it actually is are two entirely different things.
 
Not the right way to look at the move from 3 to 12 to 6 in that draft. It was a package deal, we were not moving out of the top 6 (per Grier who coveted one of the top playmakers in that draft) so the first trade from 3 to 12 never happens if the 2nd trade back to 6 wasn't already set up. Given the package of trades we moved from 3 to 6 and picked up a future 1st and 3rd round pick. I'd call that trading down for Waddle and picking up additional draft picks in the process.
Right, but that’s the whole point. Grier needed to stay in the top 6 to draft Tua a top playmaker, then he traded for Hill. I’m not knocking, it was a great strategy. I question whether or not Tua would thrive in an environment without 2 of the fastest WRs in football, and the best overall WR in the game imo. Hell he struggles with those guys on the team. The end of year 4 was embarrassing, started with the Titans.
 
Clearly Ross and Grier don’t think Tua is an elite QB right now or they would’ve offered him a “market contract”. That’s all I’m really concerned about, and I agree with them.
I don't think that is accurate at all

Negotiations are part of the process and unless both sides have the same number in mind to start with, the process takes time. Nobody is in a hurry (except for the fans) as both sides know a deal is going to get done
 
Right, but that’s the whole point. Grier needed to stay in the top 6 to draft Tua a top playmaker, then he traded for Hill. I’m not knocking, it was a great strategy. I question whether or not Tua would thrive in an environment without 2 of the fastest WRs in football, and the best overall WR in the game imo. Hell he struggles with those guys on the team. The end of year 4 was embarrassing, started with the Titans.

Do you hold this same standard with QBS like Burrow/Herbert and Hurts? Are they only as good because of the plethora of talent at the skill positions.

You seem to greatly overexaggerate how the speed on this team correlates to elite skill positions.

Miami has Waddle who some still question of he's an outright #1( not me) and Hill. The rest are fast guys

The Raiders thought the key to success for a while was drafting the fastest WRS remember the Heyward Bay days?

Are you also saying it's now a negative for a QB if a GM needs to draft a WR top 6?
 
Right, but that’s the whole point. Grier needed to stay in the top 6 to draft Tua a top playmaker, then he traded for Hill. I’m not knocking, it was a great strategy. I question whether or not Tua would thrive in an environment without 2 of the fastest WRs in football, and the best overall WR in the game imo. Hell he struggles with those guys on the team. The end of year 4 was embarrassing, started with the Titans.
I hope he struggles again next year and leads the league in passing again........
 
This thread is fricking exhausting.

I wish the majority of the Anti-extension crowd would just say "I don't think Tua is good enough to get Miami to a Super Bowl" and be done with it. We get it...you don't like him. Stop trying to dress it up with "The front office probably thinks" or "I'm sure Ross feels," etc., and trying to pass it off as tangible evidence to support your Anti-Tua rhetoric. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Anyway, here are the following counter-arguments I've been able to sift out of here:

Point 1: "Let Tua play under his fifth-year contract and then franchise tag him."

Okay, sure. Aside from Tua playing (assuming he does) on a one-year deal in 2024, you're probably going to be paying him close to $50mm per year in 2025 anyway. And then, if he plays well, you're either paying him close to $70mm the following year or signing him to one of the craziest contracts in NFL history.

There's also this little point that hasn't been addressed with this whole counter-argument, and it's one that should scare the bejeezus out of everyone. If Tua stays healthy and plays well, and leads Miami to...say, the AFC Championship Game in 2024-25, which isn't some crazy pipe dream...everything will look rosy for 2025. Super Bowl aspirations. Everything's great, right? Wrong. Tua now really has Miami by the short hairs.

Miami can franchise tag Tua all they want. He doesn't have to sign it. He can tell Miami "Either sign me to the biggest contract in QB history, or I sit out 2025."

Point 2: "Let Tua play under his fifth-year contract and then sign him to an extension"

For the love of God...why? Unless you think Tua regresses severely or misses half the season, all you're doing is delaying everything a year. And if you don't think next year will be more expensive than this year, I don't know what to tell you.

Point 3: "Tua needs Miami more than Miami needs Tua"



No.

Just no. Miami without Tua is a 6 win team. Fewer butts in the seats. Fewer merchandising dollars. They're set up to compete with their current roster for the next two seasons.

Anyway, the way Miami is set up right now is to extend Tua. It just makes the most sense. A contract can be worked to tie Tua to Miami through the 2027 season. After that, if it doesn't work out, he's off the payroll.

If you want to make the argument that QBs make too much money, and there are alternative ways to come up with QB solutions, I'm all ears (and I believe that's what Pittsburgh is doing). But for right now and the immediate future, they're just not set up that way.

If you want my opinion (and it is just my opinion) on what might be holding up the contract, it's that sentence that Tua said last offseason, when he "thought about retiring." If I'm Miami's Front Office, I'm saying something to the effect of "If you have another injury and decide to retire after the 24-25 or 25-26 season, some of those signing bonuses that extend out through the 2028 season must be repaid to the club." I'm not sure how well that would work with the NFLPA, but it would be in the back of my mind.

Believing in Tua or thinking he will or will not get us to a Superbowl

HAS

Nothing to do whether or not I like him.

By all accounts Tua seems like a good egg.

I was excited when we drafted him

I want him to be freaking AMAZING



I think we all do.

Unfortunately we cannot all be right about the levels he will achieve and the success he will have.

And so we are here discussing Tua and the future of the football team.

Do not try to pigeonhole or project onto others because they have a slightly different view on what they would like the football team to do.
 
No you are incorrect.

It's already been established that Grier would NOT have traded down to 12 if he did not have the deal in place to trade back up to 6.

This is something some conveniently forget.

Also, you want to knock Tua for having Hill. Some of you make Hill out to e some ungodly WR that is a mythical beast.

So my point is simple. You seem to discredit Tua for having Hill. But want to bury him when he had one of the leagues worst o lines in the game and zero help at the WR position.

So which is it? Is a QB supposed to be graded based on the talent he has or not? Does this standard apply to every other QB in the league? Or just Tua?
Nobody forgot that Grier Traded down and then had the option to trade back up.
Fact of the matter is that he absolutely had to make a trade to get back into a position to draft waddle. (Because he DID trade down)

No explaining that away. (Yeah but he knew this and he planned that....etc.)

If he did not trade up, he does not get Waddle.

Anything else is a blatant lie.

You seem locked in... Determined not to cede a single point in any argument, Why?
 
I hope he struggles again next year and leads the league in passing again........
Ya but how did he play against winning teams? He stunk in the final regular season game against the Bills at home with a chance to win the division!
 
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