Upgrades Since '17 - O Edition

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by fansinceGWilson, Jul 3, 2018.

  1. fansinceGWilson

    fansinceGWilson FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    This one is more difficult because there seems to be more emotion to some players.
    The projected comparisons are . . .

    OC - Pouncey v Kilgore - equal. The ability for an OLman to practice during game week can not be overstated. Pouncey couldn't. Kilgore can. And the OL din't seem to suffer when Brendel subbed for Pouncey.
    OG - Larsen/Bushrod v Davis/Sitton - no debate. Better
    OT - Tunsil/James v no change - equal
    WR - Stills/Parker/Landry v Stills/Parker/who knows - difficult for a number of reasons. The debate over Landry, which seeps in to discussions on Amendola and Wilson. Not listed, but Grant '18 should put up better numbers than Grant '17. IMO, equal at worst.
    TE - JT/Fasano v Gesicki/pick one. Better.
    QB - Cutler v Tannehill. No discussion neded
    RB - Ajayii/Drake/Williams - Drake/Gore/Ballage. Another emotional position. I wasn't a huge fan of Ajayi. Not that he wasn't good, but he seemed addicted to 200 yard games and would bounce in the hope of 20 yards instead of powering for 3. And I was no fan of Williams. Plus, a better receiving group. Better.

    I see no 'worse' positions and 3 obviously better positions. depth appears better.
     
  2. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla A True Fan

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    Just hope it doesn't take four games to gel.
     
  3. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Depth should be widely acknowledged to be much better with the exception of the QB position.

    I don't know if the OL are built to be better run blockers than 2017, though I also can't say they're built to be worse run blockers, but they are most certainly built to be better pass protectors in 2018 than they were in 2017. And they weren't bad in pass protection in 2017, either.

    Josh Sitton is an obvious upgrade particularly in this pass protection department. It's straight forward in that he's a guy who is better at certain things than the people that played here before him.

    There's a tough comp between Mike Pouncey and Daniel Kilgore only because there's no way Pouncey should have played 16 games last year. We got really, *really* lucky in that regard. It just shouldn't have happened and I think the Chargers are kidding themselves. If you stack up what Miami got out of Pouncey one year ago versus what they can expect out of Kilgore this year, then as you suggest we might be talking about more or less a tie, although there is one important factor that is clearly in Kilgore's favor which I'll get to in a second. However if you're stacking up 2018 Mike Pouncey (now of the Chargers) with 2018 Daniel Kilgore (now of the Dolphins), I think you have to take Kilgore hands down because he's about the same quality on the field, and you should expect him to actually be on the field for the season whereas it feels like the Chargers will be lucky to get 8 games out of Pouncey.

    On the other hand, there is one important factor working in Kilgore 2018's favor versus Pouncey 2017, even accounting for Pouncey having played all 16 games. That is the amount of practice work Pouncey missed because of the plan they developed for him to try and get him to play all 16 games. The plan WORKED, and is a testament to the skill of our sports performance, training and conditioning, and analytics staff. They should be applauded. But the plan had big drawbacks. He never practiced, and as a result the chemistry of the line suffered, particularly toward the beginning of the year. Daniel Kilgore is a cerebral guy, noted for how quickly he can digest a new playbook, and he will be practicing all spring, summer, and autumn with the same four guys around him (Tunsil, Sitton, Davis, James).

    That should improve the OL's effectiveness in ways that may not be quite as obvious as seeing a guy on the field that has better anchor or better mobility, etc.

    The other upgrades on the OL are what we in my business might think of as either evolutionary catalysts, or based on easy comps.

    Ja'Wuan James only played 8 games. Could that happen again? Sure. Is the expected value of his 2018 games played at 8.0? No. He's played about 72% of his games in the pros, so you figure 11 or 12 games in 2018. But I would argue that number is low if you account for his college career, where he was an injury-free stalwart. He doesn't have degenerative issues. I would argue that he might be more in line for some upward reversion to the mean in terms of his health and availability. I am personally thinking 13 to 16 games but that's just me. And he was one of the best right tackles in football when he did play, so getting 4 to 8 more games out of him would be a pretty nice sized upgrade.

    Jesse Davis played his final 6 games at right guard. He played right guard better than he did left guard, particularly in pass protection. He's already been declared the starter at right guard. If he simply plays the full year at right guard the way he did the last 6 games then Miami will have a second upgrade on the guards unit. On the other hand, if the better play for those 6 games was more or less some random noise, small sample stuff, there could be a reversion, and perhaps we do not see an upgrade versus 2017. But there's an evolutionary catalyst lying in the wait here. Last year was literally his first year playing NFL football. He'd been around the NFL a year before but hadn't played. Don't young players grow with experience? Isn't that a thing? Especially as they stop being moved around and are allowed to focus on one spot? It's not something you should BANK on, but it is something that you should expect to be true more often than not.

    Same with Laremy Tunsil. He wasn't actually that bad in 2017, penalties aside. But he was in his first year playing NFL left tackle. Don't we expect, as a matter of default, young players to grow as they get more experience? Especially true if they're former high picks with great tools.

    So overall I think the outlook of the OL should be very good. Expectations should be high in pass protection, though a little less clear in run blocking.
     
  4. superphin

    superphin close your eyes, see that? no your eyes are closed Finheaven VIP

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    It is better on paper but we have to see how they perform on the field. Realistically not every free agent we signed is going to work out, not all our young players are going to improve, not all the players who made improvements last year are going to continue making improvements. Some players might just regress.

    Hopefully coaching can mask some of our potential weaknesses.
     
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  5. fansinceGWilson

    fansinceGWilson FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Don't disagree, but every same person sees Davis, Sitton, Gesicki, and Tannehill as upgrades. Throw in just a couple of the remaining replacements and a better O seems reasonable.
     
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  6. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    We're either in the prediction/expectations game or not. If we're not, then that's fine. Head into the year with no predictions as to how they're going to do, be it Super Bowl champs or 0-16. If that's what you want to do, that's fine. Doesn't seem to me like most people actually want to do that though. They want to develop intelligent expectations or predictions on how the team will do. This is a discussion board, after all.

    If that's the case, then I've never understood the value of coming in and being the guy that says "that's just on paper, we'll have to see how they actually do on the field." Umm, ok? Yeah I suppose it's not historical fact until it is, in fact, history. But this is a message board. We're discussing how we think the team will do. And discussing the idea of whether a unit is "upgraded" or "downgrade" is inherently inseparable from the predictions/expectations game. So what value is there in being the guy in the room to point out that the games haven't been played yet?

    No offense to anybody, I just have never understood that.
     
  7. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    That always pisses me off when it happens. But some things that give me hope about this:

    1. Chris Foerster is gone. I've never been a fan, even before I knew he was snorting lines at work. His method of teaching has been specifically cited as responsible for some of Ja'Wuan James's early season 2016 struggles, as it took him a while to un-learn some things and re-learn it the new way. Unlike some, I don't necessarily assume the new way is better. Just different. So when I hear about that, I don't assume that the "new way" is responsible for James playing well. I just know that the transaction cost caused him to play poorly for a stretch. That's just one example.

    2. Under Foerster we always seemed to mix and match and cross-train everyone, never letting the players get a lot of chemistry. That's over now. They declared their five SUPER early. They will work together all spring, summer, and fall. If we see immediate chemistry with things like pull and pin blocking, picking up stunts and blitzes in zone protection, I don't think it would be ridiculous to say this alone may have been a big factor in that.

    3. As I said, the center Daniel Kilgore will practice with the first unit throughout. He won't spend the week mummified, only to be unwrapped on Sundays. That has to be a factor.
     
  8. Ray R

    Ray R FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I think there are some posters that feel they need to "coach" the board with their "historical insight", ignoring the fact that others may have as much or more "historical insight" and are willing to apply it in predicting a seasons performance.

    Predictors will have something more to look forward to than the game itself. We will enjoy reviewing what went right or what went wrong, based on what we saw and what we predicted. This adds another dimension to the season that the "coaches" just don't seem to get. I wish they understood how much they are missing out on.
     
  9. Tureo

    Tureo Seasoned Veteran

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    I can't just assume that rookies will perform better than veterans regardless of the quality of play by those vets. I understand placing lofty expectations on players returning from injury or those new to the team but I just can't do it with rooks.


    This year more than any is a wait and see approach with so many rookies and nrw players. It's difficult to predict success for me based on past years and the number of new players
     
  10. crumpdaddy

    crumpdaddy FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    nothing personal Chris, but I used to be the guy that stood around and said this keg is going to float in an hour we need more beer before it was even tapped. Some of my buds would want to argue one way or another and discuss it but I would just keep saying nope, we'll need more beer. so someone has to point out the obvious so that when it takes place you can say "damnit I told you we'd need two kegs" I think that's why we have planned pretty good depth for this year, that way if we start floating too many kegs then we are still good to go.....

    BTW, the mods must love you, in the ask the mods anything post, I was trying to be funny and posted "Does Chris need to invite Omar on his podcast so he can get some dolphins knowledge" they didn't post that one :-D
     
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  11. crumpdaddy

    crumpdaddy FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I'm with you on the rookies. only one was even mentioned and that was on the OP with Mike G. some people would call it an exaggeration.,..and maybe it is..but im saying that most posters on this page under the age of 50 could prob be a better target than JT was last year, so I don't see how TE can be a downgrade. hell not fielding a TE would be an upgrade to what we had last year. but as far as Fitz, MG, KB, JP, im hoping to see a lot, mainly out of those first 3, but if it doesn't happen, then you're correct they are rookies, and really only the first two of those should have lofty expectations just because Fitz was rated by some as a top 5 player and MG top 3 TE by most
     
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  12. russdoe

    russdoe Rookie

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    I agree we should be much better. However, every year at this time the view is optimistic. I'm prepared for the rookies and McMillan to make rookie mistakes.

    I'm most scared of whoever our kicker is costing us a game or two unless the offense puts up 30 points

    I think this is the year we see age catch up with Wake.
    I don't think Thill will be running the read option anymore for fear or injury.

    Rome wasn't built in a day.
    I can see this team is being built over the last few years
     
  13. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I'll assume the "he" referred to Omar and the mods just didn't want to offend Omar.
     
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  14. fansinceGWilson

    fansinceGWilson FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I kinda dump "on paper" in the same bucket as 'we haven't seen them play yet,' or 'we'll see when the season starts.' That is, I see it as a disclaimer similar to 'yeah, it looks good, but who knows.' I just roll over it as acknowledging the unknown.

    In the case of my two posts on upgrades, I divide them into 3 categories. 1) Very likely (e.g., Gesicki over JT, Tannehill over Cutler), 2) likely (e.g., Fitz and McMillan), and 3) personal opinion (e.g., Tank '18 over Tank '17). Given that, I see little disagreement Sitton, Davis, Gesicki, Tannehill, Fitz, and McMillan (compared to Maualuga) will be upgrades. I also expect SOME of Drake, Harris, Quinn, X, and Tank to play better than '17. I see none of that as unreasonable and I've named half of 22-24 "starters." Throw in just a couple of Kilgore, Tunsil, a 2nd TE, Phillips, Hayes, Branch, Harris, and McCain, and it looks better. Now is when we add "on paper," "haven't seen them play," or your favorite disclaimer.
     
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  15. jnozag

    jnozag Well-Known Member

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    we lost our leading rusher and receiver from 2016 (when we went to the playoffs). you can't just look at paper and say we're better. we need to see, but it's probably doubtful we're better than we were in 2016.
     
  16. fansinceGWilson

    fansinceGWilson FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    The title is upgrades since '17. I posted that because some say the team is no better than last year
     
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  17. The Ghost

    The Ghost Stamos

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    Every player on offense should grade out better than their 2017 counterpart, even when that player being compared to is the same guy. Tunsil, Parker, Tannehill, Drake, Grant, James, Stills have no reason to not be the best they've ever been, should health not be an issue.

    Kilgore/Pouncey is the only spot really up in the air for me. If Kilgore can hover around average we will be ok, especially if he never misses practice.

    If the upgrade at TE is what we think it should be.......game on.

    Don't be afraid to believe in this group. I know it's hard to think that this many upgrades could actually have taken place. But they did.
     
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  18. The Ghost

    The Ghost Stamos

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    You say "lose" I say no longer willing to employ.
     
  19. DolfanISS

    DolfanISS Perennial All-Pro Finheaven VIP

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    My opinion is we did upgrade and will be much better in 2018. First and foremost Tannehill will give us consistently better QB play than Cutler. I think where rival fans get lost here is it's not because he will be a superstar, and I hope he is, but mostly just because he will make the majority of the routine plays and throws Cutler just didn't. Even is Jay's best game (NE) he left points on the field. He just messed up too many plays that were there to be made period.

    I agree on the line, it will be the best pass blocking line in the Tannehill era. The lines really haven't been as bad as the site makes them out to be since Gase has come over. We've been in the top half of the league in sacks allowed over the last 2 seasons better than many playoff teams and even some super bowl contestants.

    I expect the offense as a whole to be better and more explosive. I think there is a ton of speed on the field and many big plays waiting to happen. I feel there are 3 tiers:

    Good offense - Add Tannehill, Parker has hi average year and the rookie TE's contribute a little.
    Very good offense - Add Tannehill, Parker has a breakout year and the rookie TE's contribute a little.
    Excellent offense - Add Tannehill, Parker has a breakout year and the rookie TE's, specifically Gesicki, are big factors all long.

    TE's do struggle though and there have been many more highly touted than Gesicki who were quiet as rookies.

    Defensively I feel the end group is fantastic and the secondary should be improved. If we can get after QB's and have good coverage look out. I'm worried about the DT group where we have guys from adequate to potentially very good. How does it overcome losing a guy that was elite?

    The LB's also worry me. Kiko was bad last year. So many times I felt like one cut caused him to be outrun and miss tackles. It seems like he will be a 3 down backer again in 2018. I like what I'm hearing about Raekwon but his scouting report says he struggles in coverage. If he's a 2 down thumper I don't know how often we can expect to see him out there. Seriously, we're always in nickel. If he can't play nickel I'm not sure he can be as big a factor as we are expecting here. Than there's Anthony who struggles with anything other than his assignment and a rookie in Baker. I think this is the level you attack as an offense. Short passes to backs and TE's, get us in Nickel and cram it down our throats with the average DT's, pass rushing DE's and suspect LB's.

    Defense worries me more than offense. All in all though we overcame a worse defense in 2016, I think we win 10 and sneak into the Tourney. We shall see. Nothing would make me happier than to knock NE off they're pedestal while Brady is still playing.
     
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  20. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I think everyone should be able to acknowledge that the OL and QB spots have been upgraded considerably, while admitting that the skill position groups (WR, TE, RB) are more in the realm of arguability.

    Frankly, that's where I'd like to be more often than not. Let me know that my QB and OL are doing fine, and I can forgive some bull/bear disagreements at the skill positions.

    That's not to say I want to be in a position where it's clear that my WR, TE, and/or RBs groups have gotten objectively, significantly worse. That's different. In that case we wouldn't really be talking about subjective disagreements or glass half-full/half-empty. Just empty. Nobody likes that at any position.
     
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  21. fansinceGWilson

    fansinceGWilson FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Agreed. There are steps in building a team. step one is getting rid of the worst players (e.g., Bushrod, JT). That has happened. Step two is getting as many above average players as possible. I think progress has been made here, but, for now, a number of those are undetermined. Step three. - improve depth. It's hard to argue this hasn't been done overall. When people start debating whether any player WILL be a top player, that's a far different mind set than will he be as bad as last year.
     
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  22. miamiron

    miamiron A True Fan

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    I think we're over looking our field goal kicker
    in the last 10 years we've had 39 games decided by 3 points or less

    The last 2 years it's been 8 games

    If our kicker lays an egg we could be looking at a disaster of a season
    if he's outstanding the pendulum will swing the opposite way
     
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  23. phintim

    phintim Seasoned Veteran

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    Like the potential here really just a question of how rusty RT will be and how long some of the new members will take time to jell. Thats on the coaching imo more than the players.
    Downgrade- Kicker
    Unknown - QB position Compared to last year with a healthy RT and Moore who looked good going into the prior years playoffs compared to a RT this year whom has been off the field a year and a half, a inexperienced floating free agent Fales and the oft cut Osswiller.
    Push Wash- Running back Thats the best I will say when comparing this years group compared to Jay A., Drake and Williams to this years group which consists of Drake, the rookie Ballage and the aging Gore.
    Maybe upgrade - Wide recievers and TE. Why how many way can you spell injuries. Sure we have talent but Parker, Amendola have big injury concerns and are main targets, Stills gets beat up and disappears at times, Grant and Wilson are fast but unknowns still which leaves many of us debating if a Forde or fading Caroo can help replace Laundry.
    Now the tight end is a exciting group but hugely inexperienced with Gesicki, Smythe and a seldom used returning Gray. Hum
    Improved - Offensive line Like the depth and experience by a long shot compared to last years group. Happy we resigned James just not the price.
     
  24. Ray R

    Ray R FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    OC - Agree. I actually expect a slight, but noticeable uptic with Kilgore due to both his availability and his performance stats last year when he was protecting Garoppolo.
    OG - Agree. I would say the improvement will be more than just noticeable.
    OT - Agree. Looking forward to improvement in the form of fewer penalties.
    WR - Disagree. I think we will be significantly better having the ball distributed more evenly over at least 4 WR's.
    TE - Agree. I suspect we will be using 3 TE's with a rotation that uses one of them as a blocking fullback and still placing two TE's in the formation. This will be fun to watch.
    QB - Agree. Discussion should be focused on what level of performance Tannehill will achieve. There are lots of stats to measure a QB's performance with most favoring one specific aspect of QB play. I will use the Passer rating stat and anticipate it will be over 105 at the end of the year. I realize that "it take two to tango" when establishing this stat and I believe the results of the last three years of good drafting are going to bear fruit. I see this as a very big year for Tannehill.
    RB - Agree. The question for me is how much better will they be. The prospect of having many good RB's that can also catch and block opens up everything. I have no idea about how good they will be, but I am sure it will leave me smiling.
    Depth - Agree. The only question in my mind is how much better they will be. Considering the playing time many of our players got last year and this years teams' potential for rotating a few players during the game to keep the line fresh without destroying its integrity should not be ignored.
    I see everything improving and improving in a coordinated way that gives our offense a level of balance that was not there before.
     
  25. McMichael

    McMichael Seasoned Veteran

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    I've said this before and I'm sticking to it....

    Tannehill coming back to the Fins offense will be the single BIGGEST upgrade to any offense in the entire league, the only chance for someone being more important is if one of the rookie QBs plays amazingly and leads a crappy team to the playoffs, which I dont see happening this year although I do think Rosen and Mayfield both have a chance to be very good.

    When you add in our lucky 1st round draft pick this year, Raekwon coming back as basically an extra 2nd rounder and the positive changes in other areas I really think we go 10-6 this year.
     
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  26. fansinceGWilson

    fansinceGWilson FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I'm struggling with "everything." I still think there are upgrades few can deny based on likelihood - Tannehill over Cutler, Gesicki over JT, Sitton over Bushrod, McMillan over Maualuga, Fitz over no-FS-last-year, and depth at a number of positions. OTOH, there are 'projections' that are less certain. X, Tank, Harris, Tunsil, Drake - those type are more open to debate. I agree the O and D are improved overall, but "everything" requires all the potential upgrades to work out.
     
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  27. TeeMoney

    TeeMoney Penny Wise and Dollar Dumb Finheaven VIP

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    I find the thinking behind the WR position a little sad. Most people on here (myself included) would've been happy giving Landry 10-13 million a year. Now that he is gone, Miami's WR positions are equal when filling a spot manned by a 15million a year player with a couple of guys. Is it only now that we realize Landry's slot position, routes and schemed plays are what made him?
     
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  28. Ray R

    Ray R FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    True, and I think this is exactly what is going to happen.
     
  29. fansinceGWilson

    fansinceGWilson FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    There's a little hypocrisy in some of these evaluations. Claiming any player will play well leads to accusations of homer-ism. Meanwhile, claiming Miami will do poorly because NONE of the changes will likely work is referred to as 'realistic.'
    Thus,, we get statements like 'just pay the guy,' as if all good teams do that. I was one hoping Landry would be retained, but it didn't work. Now, I like the WR talent in spite of the 'no #1 WR' hand-wringing.

    Nonetheless, it seems to be a consensus the only position group viewed as a downgrade is DT. All others are equal to improved. The debate now should be 'how much improvement' and that will take til October to answer.
     
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  30. VBCheeseGrater

    VBCheeseGrater Not Quite A Shredder Finheaven VIP

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    I do hope the coaches and front office know what they are doing with the kicker situation. Just when it seemed we might have a reliable kicker, we are back to unknown at best. Like you say if it goes south it could easily cost us multiple games. Hell, the NE dynasty was darn near launched on the leg of a kicker.
     
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  31. J. David Wannyheimer

    J. David Wannyheimer Tape Guys vs Analytics Guys Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I honestly think the receiving corps WILL be better this season, and I'll actually just go ahead and say it, and eat my lumps if they fall flat on their faces.

    I think Danny Amendola will be better than Jarvis Landry when he's on the field (maybe 8 games?). I think Jakeem Grant will get more playing time and that's going to matter. I think Mike Gesicki will at least be a wash with Julius Thomas. And I'm not even going into Albert WIlson, who I think is going to pleasantly surprise some people here.

    RB is where I'm a little concerned, just because Frank Gore is really getting up there in years and Kenyan Drake is now going to have to shoulder the load for 16 games, something he has never done before. I think that if Drake can stay healthy for 16 games, he will be a breakout star player in the NFL, but I'm a little worried about whether or not he can manage that.
     
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  32. fin415

    fin415 Not a slot receiver Finheaven VIP

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    You are 100% correct for that version of football that is played with just 1 player on offense and 1 on defense. I seem to be watching a different game than you are. The games I'm watching seem to have an additional 10 guys on the field all at the same time. Occasionally, their coaches look to be trying to structure their schemes around the strengths and weaknesses of those 11 guys. Hmm, maybe all this silly talk about football being a team sport isn't as silly as it sounds?

    All these extra guys on the field at one time makes for some interesting entertainment and I'll bet these games are way more fun than the ones your watching.
     
  33. fin415

    fin415 Not a slot receiver Finheaven VIP

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    1000x this.
     
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  34. Digital

    Digital Starter Finheaven VIP

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    Lots of great comments by everyone. Thanks FansinceGWilson!

    I generally agree, but as RayR metioned, there's a few other realistic projections along the OL that seem significant. Young LT made a lot of errors, and I'm expecting fewer errors and generally more sound work ethic. Sounds like Sitton and watching last year's film have made an impression on young Tunsil. James … I've never really been a huge fan of his, as he's a poor run blocker and gets injured a lot. He's kinda soft. But if he stays healthy, I'm fine with it. Sitton is a beast. Best guard in the NFL over the last few years, with technique, strength, athleticism, and a tenacity that rubs off on others. Great addition. I was pleasantly surprised by Jesse Davis' development last year, and look forward to watching it continue. Larsen, if healthy, is a solid backup guard. Davis can swing to RT if James gets injured. We have a little depth. Overall, we should have better pass protection, superior run blocking compared to last year, and flexibility that we have not had since Gase arrived. This OL is better. Sure, Pouncey is better pulling than Kilgore, but the lost chemistry from the injuries and poor point of attack play made me sour on Pouncey. Brendel graded out better than Pouncey, so I'm not lamenting the loss.

    When you consider Landry, you cannot really look for one person to replace him, because the whole will be different, so it's not just filling a hole in the whole. Landry was exceptional at short passes … and we all agreed we saw too many pointless WR screens. Landry had exceptional hands. Landry was an excellent blocking WR. Mike Gesicki has those great hands and far superior size and speed. Eventually, he will replace Landry, but not likely as a rookie TE. Sadly, Landry's blocking was better than we will initially see from Gesicki, but in time, Gesicki could become a complete TE, offering more in the run and pass games blocking-wise. In the short term, we will add speed and quickness with Albert Wilson and Jakeem Grant, both of whom are far more explosive than Landry. Amendola provides a little of everything from savvy route running to clutch catches to sneaky speed. For short move-the-chain throws we will have 6'6 TE's Mike Gesicki and Durham Smythe to complement DeVante Parker. So yeah, on paper we look good. Injuries are _always_ a concern, but we're now looking at 7 competent guys to fill 4 spots, where last year we only had 4 competent guys.

    Both Years: Kenny Stills, DeVante Parker
    Last Year: Kenny Stills, DeVante Parker, Jarvis Landry, Julius Thomas (Grant was not played enough last year)
    This Year: Kenny Stills, DeVante Parker, Albert Wilson, Danny Amendola, Jakeem Grant, Mike Gesicki, Durham Smythe

    Then we added a 3rd down back who blocks better than Damien Williams, catches the ball better than Damien Williams, and hopefully makes less bonehead plays than Damien Williams.

    Adding Tannehill back is the 4 game improvement. This is just gravy as the team gets better, more versatile, deeper, and younger.

    I realize this is not aimed at me, but I just wanted to say that I agree with everything you said here CK. The silliness of the expression "on paper" could easily be replaced with the exact same comment about every team "if they stay healthy" and while some players are more likely to get injured (Koa Misi, Mike Pouncey, etc.), no team is going to stay completely healthy. Everything is a combo of conjecture and projections. It's not science … it's loosely quantifiable art, and we love it.
     
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  35. Fin Fan in Cali

    Fin Fan in Cali Joanne Shaw Taylor Super Donator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    [​IMG]

    Johnathan Hankins is still available. Probably waiting for camp injuries to sign.
     
  36. Ray R

    Ray R FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Last year we replaced a proven kicker with a new guy and there was a lot of complaining. The new guy did very well and got a good deal in free agency and made a lot more money. We now have another new guy who shows a lot of capability who will make less money. Lets look at this like a punch list.

    Year - Player - FG's - FG Attempts - FG % - Longest FG - Notes
    2015/6 - Andrew Franks - 29 - 37 - 78.4%- 55 yards - 3 clutch FG's to tie or win games.
    2017 - Cody Parker - 21 - 23 - 91.3%- 54 yards - AFC Special Teams Player of the week for scoring 13 of the Dolphins 19 points.
    2018 - TBA - TBD - TBD - TBD - TBD - TBD


    Our history the last two years with kickers has been good and shown some improvement each year. This year we may have a kicker that we drafted, not picked up off waivers or something. Considering our teams drafting the last three years and particularly the special teams player selections for the last three years and the talent displayed in our recent OTA's, I think we are in a good position with our kicker situation. Keep in mind we took Cody Parker a year after he missed a FG playing for the Browns that would have had the Browns beating us. There was a lot of discussion as to whether or not we really wanted him. Those Special Teams coaches have demonstrated to me over the last three years that they know what they are doing!
     
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  37. JahnDho

    JahnDho Well-Known Member

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    Has anyone actually looked at Kilgores’s career in SF? Special teamer early in his career, riddled with injuries and missed games, last year was his first time playing all 16 games...so you’re argument of practice time is a moot point. Grades out poorly in pass protection. What he lacks in talent he makes up in effort; still a career avg C at best.

    Sitton is an upgrade at guard, but the rest are a bit unproven. We can hope they improve, but compared to the top 15 OL in the NFL, I can’t find reason to be optimistic. I just don’t agree with everyone’s optimism here.
     
  38. miamiron

    miamiron A True Fan

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    As much as I hope for the best
    you just can't over look Greg Josephs poor
    field goal kicking college career

    He made 57 kicks out of 82 attempts
    or 69% which would rank him as one of the worst field goal
    kickers in the NFL

    Just to compare him to the best FG kicker in the Nfl last season
    Robbie Gould made 39 of 41 attempts for a 95% accuracy

    10 kickers were 90% or better last season

    69% FG accuracy will kill this team over the season

    Jason Sanders wasn't much better making 25 out of 35 attempts in his college career
    for a 71% accuracy which will not cut it if we expect to have a winning season

    I hope one of these guys steps up but if neither does I hope
    we can bring in a free agent vet to manage that position
     
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  39. VBCheeseGrater

    VBCheeseGrater Not Quite A Shredder Finheaven VIP

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    Good point about Parker last year. if these guys can do it again with the drafted guy ill be impressed, just concerned if it goes wrong and the ensuing game "winning" kicks. Last year was the first time in awhile I had some faith in those 40+ yd kicks.
     
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  40. PhinsAAA

    PhinsAAA Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty sure I remember seeing an article talking about how bad the holding was for our new kicker in college. Could be something I honestly know nothing about how to kick a FG but I would imagine the holder plays a big part. Not saying he would have made more but maybe someone remembers who wrote that?
     
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