Very tough call facing Miami Dolphins as the DeVonta Smith/Ja’Marr Chase debate rages | Page 10 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Very tough call facing Miami Dolphins as the DeVonta Smith/Ja’Marr Chase debate rages

Feverdream said:
165 lbs is 165 lbs... Guys with frames like Smith don't add weight well.

He won't get bigger, he won't get much stronger. He has pretty much topped out on what he can do with his frame.

Sadly
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You quite simply do not know this.

It also isn't as simple to stop Smith as saying "Hey, let's use press coverage!" I'm not trying to be a jerk, but that's a huge oversimplification of things.
 
The Goat said:
You quite simply do not know this.

It also isn't as simple to stop Smith as saying "Hey, let's use press coverage!" I'm not trying to be a jerk, but that's a huge oversimplification of things.
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Yes... it is an oversimplification of things. Most takes are.

But guys that spindly have traditionally had a Hell of a time maintaining weight. There is no place to put it on, and sometimes adding muscle mass means losing dexterity... which is his entire game.

Alabama was so deep, and so dominant... that most teams had no chance from the whistle. In the NFL, the margins are much tighter and the CBs are so much better. Most SEC CBs don't make it there. Some do, and are very good, but by and large, the rise in competition level is enormous.

Again... look at Iggy. Smith said he was the best CB that he faced in his time at 'Bama... and yet... half of our board thinks the guy sucks.
 
Let DCs test Smith in press, wont take long bfore they back off...
 
Feverdream said:
Yes... it is an oversimplification of things. Most takes are.

But guys that spindly have traditionally had a Hell of a time maintaining weight. There is no place to put it on, and sometimes adding muscle mass means losing dexterity... which is his entire game.

Alabama was so deep, and so dominant... that most teams had no chance from the whistle. In the NFL, the margins are much tighter and the CBs are so much better. Most SEC CBs don't make it there. Some do, and are very good, but by and large, the rise in competition level is enormous.

Again... look at Iggy. Smith said he was the best CB that he faced in his time at 'Bama... and yet... half of our board thinks the guy sucks.
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I am not one of those people; judging Iggy based on two games early in the season, particularly with no camp, his history and age would be...silly. At best.

I'm not saying he'll ever be DK Metcalf. I'm saying that he can add *some* mass and strength. Here's the thing that I keep coming back to with this conversation: Alabama is one of the top programs in the country, with a phenomenal training staff. I simply don't believe that Smith would have been unable to add SOME weight and mass with that sort of staff assisting him. So why didn't he?

Because he didn't need to. If he needs to add 15 pounds of muscle to deal with bigger NFL CBs, I have no doubt he can.

Will top-flight CBs be able to get their hands on him sometimes? Of course. He's also not going to go off for 1800 yards and 23 TDs his rookie year. And there will be an adjustment to the NFL, like with almost every other WR to ever play the game. But that doesn't mean he won't be a top 5 WR in the league.
 
IMO scouting players based on the weight listing is poor scouting. Proper scouting involves looking at the film. And the fact of the matter is that Smith is excellent against press, excellent at fighting through contact and excellent at contested catches. There are very few reps where he is out-muscled. And this is the consensus opinion from every evaluator who looks at the film. It makes it hard to take any opinion seriously that is only focused on his weight.
 
rafael said:
IMO scouting players based on the weight listing is poor scouting. Proper scouting involves looking at the film. And the fact of the matter is that Smith is excellent against press, excellent at fighting through contact and excellent at contested catches. There are very few reps where he is out-muscled. And this is the consensus opinion from every evaluator who looks at the film. It makes it hard to take any opinion seriously that is only focused on his weight.
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To be fair, he hasn't shown much ability as a blocker; this is where his lack of strength shows (and one of the reasons why I believe he'll get at least a *little* bigger.)
 
The Goat said:
I am not one of those people; judging Iggy based on two games early in the season, particularly with no camp, his history and age would be...silly. At best.

I'm not saying he'll ever be DK Metcalf. I'm saying that he can add *some* mass and strength. Here's the thing that I keep coming back to with this conversation: Alabama is one of the top programs in the country, with a phenomenal training staff. I simply don't believe that Smith would have been unable to add SOME weight and mass with that sort of staff assisting him. So why didn't he?

Because he didn't need to. If he needs to add 15 pounds of muscle to deal with bigger NFL CBs, I have no doubt he can.

Will top-flight CBs be able to get their hands on him sometimes? Of course. He's also not going to go off for 1800 yards and 23 TDs his rookie year. And there will be an adjustment to the NFL, like with almost every other WR to ever play the game. But that doesn't mean he won't be a top 5 WR in the league.
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You say 'he didn't need to'...

I say, 'he probably can't'

That is the crux of the argument.

I think he'll be a team's #2 WR, and as such... isn't a top 10 pick.
 
The Goat said:
To be fair, he hasn't shown much ability as a blocker; this is where his lack of strength shows (and one of the reasons why I believe he'll get at least a *little* bigger.)
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He's a willing blocker. He's good at contact and interference, but he certainly doesn't pancake anyone.
 
NBP81 said:
Smith was the best WR in college vs press playing in the SEC... He'll be fine in that department
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I mean, that's kind of what bothers me about this. If you watched Smith the previous couple years, I guarantee you that you'll see a lot of DCs force the press compared to this season when you magically didn't see it anymore. Wonder why?

It's almost like he obliterated it.
 
Kamelion4291 said:
I mean, that's kind of what bothers me about this. If you watched Smith the previous couple years, I guarantee you that you'll see a lot of DCs force the press compared to this season when you magically didn't see it anymore. Wonder why?

It's almost like he obliterated it.
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Here is a quote from PFF regarding Smith tha reflects my opinion on him:

"For as slight as Smith is, there’s very little evidence of it on his tape other than the visual. You don’t see him play like a guy who doesn’t want contact. He takes some big hits and bounces right back up. He attacks the soft shoulders of defenders with run-after-the-catch angles. Early signs are good that it’s just a visual concern."
 
rafael said:
He's a willing blocker. He's good at contact and interference, but he certainly doesn't pancake anyone.
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he doesn’t need to. Stalk block and be willing to put your body on the line and you good.

I see nothing that says he’s not willing to do any ask in terms of put it on tbe line
 
Feverdream said:
You say 'he didn't need to'...

I say, 'he probably can't'

That is the crux of the argument.

I think he'll be a team's #2 WR, and as such... isn't a top 10 pick.
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I'm leaning the way you are as well - but I seem to always go back to Marvin Harrison - that's who I feel like I'm watching - if he turned out like Marvin wouldn't that be awesome? Again I'm mainly on your side - that's just my sales pitch for being OK with it I guess - I'd be more OK w it at 6-9 than 3 though.
 
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