Watch Rodgers play, he's worth #2 | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Watch Rodgers play, he's worth #2

You don't think it helped that Rodgers got to sit behind Brett Favre for 3 years, no pressure, and was allowed to develop. Imagine if we drafted Gabbert and he sat and did nothing for even 1 year? It would be the same song and dance. Many people on this board play both sides of the field to help an argument out. It was a great situation, and Miami wasn't the only one that passed on Rodgers. Hell people saw Beck lead like 2 comebacks in the preseason in 2007 and couldn't understand why he wasn't on the field immediately after Trent Green went down, some wanted him in before Green went down. Maybe some of these guys aren't ready to start in their first season. Rivers didn't start his first 2 seasons. Truth is, you can draft a QB in round 1, but don't expect Sam Bradford, or Matt Ryan or Matt Stafford early success. It can happen, but it is not the norm. Hell we had Chad Pennington in for a game and a half in 2008, Henne played the 4th quarter of a blowout, and people were calling for him to start the next game @ New England. It doesn't work like that, you gotta have patience with a young QB . . . we can listen to the Bill Parcells philosophy about puppies and biting, **** him, truth is some guys take time to fully develop to be quality in the NFL.

You can't look back on past drafts and say woulda, coulda, shoulda . . . for every one time you are right, how many times were you wrong? Why aren't those threads being bumped . . . I mean how many people liked Brady Quinn and thought Cam Cameron was a moron for passing on him and gave Ginn a hard time his entire career as a Fin just to ensure their opinion was right and how incompetent the GM/HC was for making that pick . . . but now people call it "We passed on Patrick Willis or Darrelle Revis" . . . please.

If it was as cut and dry as people wanna make it sound, then the first 5 picks of the draft would be QB's . . . because you don't pass on franchise QB's. But that isn't always the case, and alot of times if one "bust" is drafted by another team, it is quite possible that "bust" is a relevant QB. They year McNabb was drafted, there were 5 QB's in the first 12 picks . . . 3 of them were complete busts, Culpepper did damage for a few years and got hurt and McNabb never got the ring despite being in the NFC championship game 5 times. One year gave us Eli, Rivers and Big Ben in the first 14 picks. It is very hit or miss, and teams make critical mistakes at QB ALL the TIME. There is no guarantee that Aaron Rodgers or Matt Ryan are the players they are today if drafted by Miami, which is why this is nothing to cry over.

Miami does NOT need to reach for a QB, they need to take the best player available at a position of need, and if that is a QB, then draft him. If the new OC likes a QB, that needs to be a factor in placing a higher weight on that guy. The draft isn't a science, there is alot of luck involved . . . from having the right system, right coaches, right supporting cast . . . to help a QB develop, and our coaching staff hasn't done a good enough job of doing that for Chad Henne. You know what I see all these young QB's have . . . a damn good TE, from Tony G, Todd Heap, Heath Miller, Pettigrew, St. Louis drafted 2 TE's for their young QB, the Patriots drafted 2 TE's, Freeman has Kellen Winslow . . . how the hell can we just ride with Fasano and nobody else all year?

You want your young QB to be successful, surround him with the right coaches and the right players, and Miami has done a piss poor job of doing that. They have installed this 80's offensive mindset on this team, and it doesn't work . . . and that QB could be damn near anybody, and you are sadly mistaken if you think that would have made a big impact on this offense. "They are who we thought they were" . . . a boring offense, and more than a QB is needed to change that, the entire identity needs to be changed.
 
Roonnette said:
I don't care about Rodgers. Let's talk about something important. General Tso, who's the next best QB in the draft?
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I'm certainly no Boomer, KB, CK or Jeff Ireland. Not even close. Which... is kind of the point of this 'necrobump'. I keep seeing posters like Nebular coming in with their annual "these professionals know better than you, don't question them" garbage... even when we're all fans of a franchise that's probably one of the worst drafting/personnel/front-office teams in the past decade.

This common fan was convinced Rodgers was a stud when the experts weren't. Many were convinced of Jay Cutler and Matt Ryan after him. Look where all 3 of them are today and look where our front office experts have us. They are not above reproach!

FWIW (not much), at this point of the year my main convictions are to avoid Mallet (Leaf Jr.), Locker (not accurate) and Stanzi (career backup IMO). Although I'm not convinced they're the answer, if we have a shot at Gabbert or Newton, then we should do what we can to go up and get 'em. We have to try and I think either could be very successful.

Of course, I won't be upset if we roll the dice on a Mallet or Locker and they bomb out like I expect them to. At least we'd be taking a shot at greatness. Kind of like the Culpepper deal to me. Yeah, it clearly didn't work out, but at least at that point Saban realized he had to try solving the QB position. Just too bad he passed on Rodgers and Brees, otherwise he'd probably still be our coach and we might have had some relevancy over the past 6 years.
 
It is important to look back and attempt to learn from history. Not taking Rodgers was a huge mistake. You'd think next time the chance came up we would have chosen differently, but passing on Ryan shows we learned nothing.
 
The problem was that Saban had too big an ego to take Rodgers, a Pac-10 guy, not an SEC Elite.

He wasn't going to sit around and wait for a Qb to develop while his Head Coaching record falters. He was going the established veteran route all the way. Plus the risk of busting on Rodgers and looking like a fool for "reaching" was not a gamble Saban was going to take.

Parcells wanting Long over Ryan is same thing....

Hiring people that are more concerned about tarnishing their legacy than building a team the right way has hurt us for a LONG (no pun intended) time.
 
Kdawg954 said:
You don't think it helped that Rodgers got to sit behind Brett Favre for 3 years, no pressure, and was allowed to develop. Imagine if we drafted Gabbert and he sat and did nothing for even 1 year? It would be the same song and dance. Many people on this board play both sides of the field to help an argument out. It was a great situation, and Miami wasn't the only one that passed on Rodgers. Hell people saw Beck lead like 2 comebacks in the preseason in 2007 and couldn't understand why he wasn't on the field immediately after Trent Green went down, some wanted him in before Green went down. Maybe some of these guys aren't ready to start in their first season. Rivers didn't start his first 2 seasons. Truth is, you can draft a QB in round 1, but don't expect Sam Bradford, or Matt Ryan or Matt Stafford early success. It can happen, but it is not the norm. Hell we had Chad Pennington in for a game and a half in 2008, Henne played the 4th quarter of a blowout, and people were calling for him to start the next game @ New England. It doesn't work like that, you gotta have patience with a young QB . . . we can listen to the Bill Parcells philosophy about puppies and biting, **** him, truth is some guys take time to fully develop to be quality in the NFL.

You can't look back on past drafts and say woulda, coulda, shoulda . . . for every one time you are right, how many times were you wrong? Why aren't those threads being bumped . . . I mean how many people liked Brady Quinn and thought Cam Cameron was a moron for passing on him and gave Ginn a hard time his entire career as a Fin just to ensure their opinion was right and how incompetent the GM/HC was for making that pick . . . but now people call it "We passed on Patrick Willis or Darrelle Revis" . . . please.

If it was as cut and dry as people wanna make it sound, then the first 5 picks of the draft would be QB's . . . because you don't pass on franchise QB's. But that isn't always the case, and alot of times if one "bust" is drafted by another team, it is quite possible that "bust" is a relevant QB. They year McNabb was drafted, there were 5 QB's in the first 12 picks . . . 3 of them were complete busts, Culpepper did damage for a few years and got hurt and McNabb never got the ring despite being in the NFC championship game 5 times. One year gave us Eli, Rivers and Big Ben in the first 14 picks. It is very hit or miss, and teams make critical mistakes at QB ALL the TIME. There is no guarantee that Aaron Rodgers or Matt Ryan are the players they are today if drafted by Miami, which is why this is nothing to cry over.

Miami does NOT need to reach for a QB, they need to take the best player available at a position of need, and if that is a QB, then draft him. If the new OC likes a QB, that needs to be a factor in placing a higher weight on that guy. The draft isn't a science, there is alot of luck involved . . . from having the right system, right coaches, right supporting cast . . . to help a QB develop, and our coaching staff hasn't done a good enough job of doing that for Chad Henne. You know what I see all these young QB's have . . . a damn good TE, from Tony G, Todd Heap, Heath Miller, Pettigrew, St. Louis drafted 2 TE's for their young QB, the Patriots drafted 2 TE's, Freeman has Kellen Winslow . . . how the hell can we just ride with Fasano and nobody else all year?

You want your young QB to be successful, surround him with the right coaches and the right players, and Miami has done a piss poor job of doing that. They have installed this 80's offensive mindset on this team, and it doesn't work . . . and that QB could be damn near anybody, and you are sadly mistaken if you think that would have made a big impact on this offense. "They are who we thought they were" . . . a boring offense, and more than a QB is needed to change that, the entire identity needs to be changed.
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This is one of the best posts I have ever read on this forum since the time I joined. Thank you for taking the time to write this up. I agree with what you have said.
 
I hope we get a QB soon. I also felt the same way about Rodgers. I felt I saw that IT factor in Rivers and his accuracy was just that good. I never felt more sure about a QB the past 10 year. I remembered feeling like the Giants got raped on draft day. Anyway I don't get that feeling about the QB's in this draft either. I think Cam might need some coaching up and may benefit from another year but he is coming out. Then Locker's supporting cast was so horrible that it makes him a little harder to judge and makes it a huge Gamble. I haven't seen much of Gabbert but the little I saw was big arm and plenty flaws. Then Mallet I just don't like and think he folds under pressure.

I would be really comfortable if we traded down and got a later 1st with a 1st next year as well. So we have some ammo to go after a big time QB in that draft.
 
An frequent argument is there's no assurance that if pressed into immediate duty on Saban's Fins, Rodgers, having the luxury of sitting behind Favre for a few years, would have developed anywheres as nicely or fared so successfully. My rebuttal is to point to the miserable beginnings of QBs including PManning (3-13, 71QBR), Elway(4-6 55QBR), and Aikman(0-11, 7-8) and assert that if you're an elite QB like those 3 and Rodgers, you're gonna eventually elevate your team whether it's sooner or later.

Remember, we went 9-7 with Gus friggin Frerrotte for chissake. Who's to say we couldn't have found a few more wins, more than the 10-6 divisional champion Patriots, with Rodgers under center considering we were shut out by the 6-10 Browns and lost by a TD or less to the 5-11 Bills, 8-8 Falcons and 10-6KC Chiefs?

Net result: Rodgers is now uplifting an injury-decimated team that otherwise has no reason for advancing this far into the playoffs, is considered one of the 4 or 5 elite QBs in the league, is tough as nails shaking off each injury, and is only 18 months older than Matt Ryan, while Saban's SEC-enamored pick, a part time RB is on the downslope of his career and has been IR'd almost as often as active during his satisfactory but unexceptional career. Thanks for nothing little Nicky.
 
Vaark said:
An frequent argument is there's no assurance that if pressed into immediate duty on Saban's Fins, Rodgers, having the luxury of sitting behind Favre for a few years, would have developed anywheres as nicely or fared so successfully. My rebuttal is to point to the miserable beginnings of QBs including PManning (3-13, 71QBR), Elway(4-6 55QBR), and Aikman(0-11, 7-8) and assert that if you're an elite QB like those 3 and Rodgers, you're gonna eventually elevate your team whether it's sooner or later.

Remember, we went 9-7 with Gus friggin Frerrotte for chissake. Who's to say we couldn't have found a few more wins, more than the 10-6 divisional champion Patriots, with Rodgers under center considering we were shut out by the 6-10 Browns and lost by a TD or less to the 5-11 Bills, 8-8 Falcons and 10-6KC Chiefs?

Net result: Rodgers is now uplifting an injury-decimated team that otherwise has no reason for advancing this far into the playoffs, is considered one of the 4 or 5 elite QBs in the league, is tough as nails shaking off each injury, and is only 18 months older than Matt Ryan, while Saban's SEC-enamored pick, a part time RB is on the downslope of his career and has been IR'd almost as often as active during his satisfactory but unexceptional career. Thanks for nothing little Nicky.
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Packers are still a very talented team - even with the injuries. But, I agree with the sentiment. And, Rodgers is the goods - obviously.
 
dolpns13 said:
Cry me a river..
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Would that be the same river that flows through Point Ryan?:d-day:

Seriously anyone who has more of a problem with Jake as the "consolation prize" than Ronnie, needs to take a step back and then STFU.
 
rent this space said:
I can't believe we didn't draft Tom Brady...
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I can't believe Finheaven still has threads from 2005. I'm not an expert...I honestly think the biggest mistakes we've made in the past decade was the Brees debacle...both times. Second worse than the first, imho. I was one of the people that wanted Brady Quinn and was shocked when he didn't get drafted. I was excited when we drafted Ronnie. And as much as he's declined...he was ok. I also don't understand how someone can knock the Jake Long pick. No...he's not a Franchise QB. But he is a Franchise LT. He's the best LT in the game since he was a rookie. Probowler every year. That was a solid pick, imo.

I don't think the Phins will draft a QB this year (mainly because we don't have a 2nd Rounder and we only draft QBs in the 2nd). But also, because we need to win....now. Young, Orton, Kolb or some other Veteran (using that term loosely) will be behind the helm for next season. And after we go 2-14 we'll be high enough to draft Luck. :D Be positive...there's always a bright side.
 
Vaark said:
Would that be the same river that flows through Point Ryan?:d-day:

Seriously anyone who has more of a problem with Jake as the "consolation prize" than Ronnie, needs to take a step back and then STFU.
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I honestly thought we were going to draft Aaron Rodgers that draft, but can't we still spin this towards Ricky Williams? We just gave up 2 #1 picks 3 years earlier, why on earth do we need to draft a RB in 2005.

I understand looking at Matt Ryan, people get irked . . . I completely understand, but when I see them throw Jake Long/Front Office under the bus because of it, I mean you just gotta laugh . . . I honestly think with Henning and Lee, we would be sitting here this day talking about how did we pass on Jake Long. Matt Ryan wouldn't be as heralded as he is now though still emerging but still with questions.

It is all a non factor if we sign Brees in 06, so I guess Saban ****ed us twice, and then realized it and dipped. Little Nicky :lol:
 
Rodgers never would have become the player that he has if we would have drafted him bc we havent had a stable offensive staff in forever.
 
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