What if Fiedler flat out wins the competition?

[FinfanInBuffalo]

I am not running I have made it clear where I stand on Fiedler as have you. Neither of us are going to waver. I think you give him too much credit. You think I don't give him enough. I am not running I am just tired of talking about it. I still believe whayt i have said. But if want continue to go on and on and on about Feidler than I guess we can. I am just getting a little bored with it right now. But I guess if you want to think that I am running away, than that is fair enough, I suppose. If Feidler wins the job and is named the starter i am sure we will have lots to talk about during the season.
Damn it! I not supposed to be talking about it anymore. :D Frikkin addiction to this team!

Okay, I give up. You just will never get the point. MY DISAGREEMENT WAS NEVER ABOUT FIEDLER'S ABILITIES. I have stated more than once that I would not disagree with anyone who said that they didn't believe Fiedler was good enough.

Here is a direct quote from an earlier post to you:

I'm not trying to convince you that Fiedler is a good QB. I'm only pointing out that your arguments as to why you feel he is not a good QB are FACTUALLY WRONG.

You are still entitled to your opinion of Fiedler's abilities....

I only objected to the 'facts' you used to make your argument. How can you still be confused on that point? The reason why this debate has gone on so long is that (despite my attempts to make it clear) we were debating different things.

There is an old saying....it is morally wrong to allow a fool to keep his money.

My philosophy is that it is morally wrong to allow blatantly untrue statements to go unchallenged. You have made numerous untrue statements. When I point out the error, you simply move on to a different untrue statement.

 

[pigskinguy]

Fair enough, I guess.

 

[Deus Ex Dolphin]

Let's turn this around then. What, in your mind, are VALID reasons for wanting a better QB then Jay?

Too often injured? Playoff performances? Fourth quarter QB rating? Lack of arm strength and accuracy?

Do you REALLY think another team wanted Jay to start for them? Seriously? He was there for the taking, but no one stepped up. For a four year proven vet QB? Shocking.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Let's turn this around then. What, in your mind, are VALID reasons for wanting a better QB then Jay?

Too often injured? Playoff performances? Fourth quarter QB rating? Lack of arm strength and accuracy?

Do you REALLY think another team wanted Jay to start for them? Seriously? He was there for the taking, but no one stepped up. For a four year proven vet QB? Shocking.

Here you go (all my opinions):

1. I want an upgrade to every position if possible. I am not locked on to any player on this team.

2. Jay's play dropped off after his injury in 2002. He has not regained the form that he displayed during the first 6 games of 2002. The team averaged 30 points per game during that stretch. They were clearly the best team in the AFC at that point. I was disappointed in his play for much of last year.

3. He struggles with accuracy at times.

4. He has average arm strength.

5. He is not good enough to consistently overcome what has been a very mediocre recieving corp and very poor offensive line. It might be easier to upgrade the QB position rather than the rest of the offense.

Notice that in the above list I never did the following:

- stated that he deserves all of the blame for team losses
- stated that he deserves none of the credit for team wins
- stated that he deserves all of the credit for team wins
- stated that he deserves none of the blame for team losses
- claimed that the team was incapable of doing things with him at QB that had already done (e.g. can't beat a playoff caliber team, can't with late season games, can't perform well at the end of games, can't win the "games that matter")
- avoided my opinion that he is not a great QB
- claimed that it is impossible for Jay to regain the form he displayed in 2002
- made any iron clad future predictions
- made any attempt to say that past team performances proves anything about future performances

I'm not a Fiedler hugger or Fiedler lover. I merely think it is wrong to make false claims to support your opinion.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Do you REALLY think another team wanted Jay to start for them? Seriously? He was there for the taking, but no one stepped up. For a four year proven vet QB? Shocking.

One more thing. We have no idea what discussions took place between Jay and other teams. He was never 'available'. He was told he could attempt to negotiate a trade. The Dolphins never cut him loose.

Even if there was no interest from other teams, it still doesn't eliminate the success that the team has had with Fiedler at QB. It doesn't erase history. It also doesn't prove anything.

Warner wasn't wanted for a long time. Delhomme wasn't wanted. etc. etc. These were guys on their own teams that were overlooked until an injury happened.

 

[pigskinguy]

Here you go (all my opinions):

1. I want an upgrade to every position if possible. I am not locked on to any player on this team.

2. Jay's play dropped off after his injury in 2002. He has not regained the form that he displayed during the first 6 games of 2002. The team averaged 30 points per game during that stretch. They were clearly the best team in the AFC at that point. I was disappointed in his play for much of last year.

3. He struggles with accuracy at times.

4. He has average arm strength.

5. He is not good enough to consistently overcome what has been a very mediocre recieving corp and very poor offensive line. It might be easier to upgrade the QB position rather than the rest of the offense.

Are those not some of the things I said? I thought that is what I was trying to say.
We should also include;
6. Poor decision making in ke and/or pressure situations
7. Here's one I ma not sure of so I would like to know what others think.....Does Jay have problems reading defenses, or does it, at times, just appear that away because of his shortcomings noting above? Just curious what others think
Sometimes I think he is poor at reading defenses, but since he is Ivy League guy, one would assume that would be a strong point. What do you guys think?

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

We should also include;
6. Poor decision making in ke and/or pressure situations
7. Here's one I ma not sure of so I would like to know what others think.....Does Jay have problems reading defenses, or does it, at times, just appear that away because of his shortcomings noting above? Just curious what others think
Sometimes I think he is poor at reading defenses, but since he is Ivy League guy, one would assume that would be a strong point. What do you guys think?

If you were to say 'sometimes makes poor decisions in key situations' I would agree. I have also seen him play well in key situations (against NE, Wash, Dal, and Philly last year).

I don't get the impression that he is poor at reading defenses. I think he just misses some throws. There are times when it appears to me that he doesn't setup quickly enough and he ends up late on his throws. I don't know if that is due to reading the defense too slowly or just being sloppy in his mechanics.

It could also be due to the receiver not reading the same thing as Jay and therefore they are out of sync. Norv Turner did complain a few times last year that there were opportunities for big plays that were missed. He never indicated if he was referring to passes that missed their mark or open receivers that Jay didn't recognize. I suspect it was both, but I have no idea how often each happened.

 

[Deus Ex Dolphin]

Well, at the end of the day, I think we all want an improved team. For some reason, I had the impression at times that you (FinfaninBuffalo) were happy with Jay at QB and couldn't understand the fuss. :D

These Fiedler threads tend to get long and negative in nature, but at least I feel we reached an understanding here...











Jay sucks!!