What it took the Browns to "Turn It Around" | Page 7 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

What it took the Browns to "Turn It Around"

Ray R said:
The real question is, when did the rebuild begin.

Many posters here seem to be confusing that with when did the rebuild end, then they go back the number of years they think it should take and say" "here is where it started.

Saying things like there were rebuilds and then more rebuilds is an exercise in meaninglessness. There are seldom any significant changes (outside of some good luck) that can be pointed to, with the exception of creating a large draft. It takes some time and capital to do that, which means it represents a concerted new effort as opposed to continuing and repeated old efforts.

That's why I used the beginning of the creation of large drafts as the beginning of their rebuild. I've looked at all the replies to this thread to date, and have seen nothing to contradict my choice for the beginning of the Browns rebuild. There were some attempts, but the posters involved either couldn't add or they couldn't make a case that is better then the one I've detailed.
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Part of the problem is "the" as in 'the rebuild.' A number of teams go through successive rebuilds
 
Ray R said:
Depends where you are starting from i.e.:

1) If you are 1/2 way there, another 90 degrees should do it. Let's face it, you always want to be "right" - LOL
2) 360 degrees makes me dizzy - LOL
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1) I don't want to be "right" I want to be correct

As for 2) "Karl Malone the person will not change, but the business person has done a 360-degree turn," he once said.

www.deseret.com

Karl Malone is one of a kind

I miss Karl Malone. Not for his points and rebounds. I miss his gift for gab and drama.
www.deseret.com www.deseret.com
 
utahphinsfan said:
1) I don't want to be "right" I want to be correct

As for 2) "Karl Malone the person will not change, but the business person has done a 360-degree turn," he once said.

www.deseret.com

Karl Malone is one of a kind

I miss Karl Malone. Not for his points and rebounds. I miss his gift for gab and drama.
www.deseret.com www.deseret.com
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So, Karl Malone is 1/2 dizzy - LOL
 
Ray R said:
What it took the Browns to "Turn It Around"

Cleveland Browns Record over the last 8 years
YearW-L RecordH.C. CoachQBQBQBDraft SizeQB Drafted
20147-9Mike PettineBrian HoyerBrandon Weeden61-22 Manzell
20153-13"Josh McGownJohnny ManzellConor Shin12
20161-15Hue JacksonCody KesslerRobert Griffin IIIJosh McGown143-93 Kessler
20170-16"Deshone KaiserKevin Hogan102-52 Kaiser
20187-8"Baker MayfieldTyrod Taylor91-1 Mayfield
20196-10Freddie KitchensBaker Mayfield7
202011-5Kevin StefanskiBaker Mayfield7
2021"Baker Mayfield8

If we only look at the last 6 years (2015 to 2020) This is what I see:
1) A losing record for all but 2020, or a 1-5 record for winning seasons.
2) The Browns went through 3 Head coaches (to-date).
3) The Browns went through 10 QB's to get to Baker Mayfield.
4) The Browns had 4 big drafts of 12, 14, 10 and 9 from 2015-2018
5) The Browns drafted 4 QB's over 2014 to 2018 (Manzell Rd#1-pick#22, Kessler Rd#3-pick#93, Kaiser Rd#2-pick#52 and Mayfield Rd#1-Pick#1)

So the Browns turnaround took (at the very least) 6 years, during which they burned thru 3 HC's, 4 drafted QB's and a total of 10 QB's overall.

As of today they have a 1-5 seasonal record where they won more then 1/2 of their games.

We are 3 years into a rebuild with a 1-1 seasonal record where we won more then 1/2 our games.
We have drafted 1 QB who is still considered our best QB.
We are still "working" on our 1st HC.

It is clear BEYOUND QUESTION that we are miles ahead of what Cleveland did to establish their turn around and that is just looking at their last 6 complete seasons. Go back another 10 years and their results are even worse!

If anyone on this board still thinks we need to "start all over again" please identify yourselves" so I can see you get all the "Lemming" points you so justly deserve!

30 years of "experience my **s.

More like 30 years of an experience from where you learned "diddly squat".
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I totally don't see how we're Miles ahead. Just not true
 
MrChadRico said:
I totally don't see how we're Miles ahead. Just not true
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Browns #Draft Selections Dolphins # Draft Selections
2015 3-13 12 Selections 2019 5-11 6 Selections
2016 1-15 14 Selections 2020 10-6 11 selections
2017 0-16 10 Selections 2021 1-4 (to date) 8

We won 2 more games during Flo's 1st year then the Brownies did the 1st year of their rebuild!
We won 9 more games during Flo's 2nd year then the Brownies did the 2nd year of their rebuild!
We have won more games so far in Flo's 3rd year then the Brownies did the 3rd year after their rebuild started!

We did it with less than 70% of the number of players drafted by the Browns in their 1st 3 years of their rebuild.

So what I said is true.

We are "miles" ahead in our rebuild then the Browns were at the 3rd year in their rebuild.

Come on, I know you can analyze data better then that!

It's not that hard!
 
Ray R said:
Browns #Draft Selections Dolphins # Draft Selections
2015 3-13 12 Selections 2019 5-11 6 Selections
2016 1-15 14 Selections 2020 10-6 11 selections
2017 0-16 10 Selections 2021 1-4 (to date) 8

We won 2 more games during Flo's 1st year then the Brownies did the 1st year of their rebuild!
We won 9 more games during Flo's 2nd year then the Brownies did the 2nd year of their rebuild!
We have won more games so far in Flo's 3rd year then the Brownies did the 3rd year after their rebuild started!

We did it with less than 70% of the number of players drafted by the Browns in their 1st 3 years of their rebuild.

So what I said is true.

We are "miles" ahead in our rebuild then the Browns were at the 3rd year in their rebuild.

Come on, I know you can analyze data better then that!

It's not that hard!
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No because your comparing them pre Mayfield. It didn't come together until they got him so the years your comparing are irrelevant IMO
 
Eesti said:
The Browns had years of high draft picks and dysfunction and also had their share of high draft picks that flopped. They have accumulated a lot of talent on both sides of the ball. They spent big money on free agents on both sides of the ball. They shopped the top tiers.

They also struggled until they filled all spots on the OL with good players. Now they have one of the best lines in football and a top RB.

Another example of a turnaround is (I hate to say it) the Buffalo Bills and the TB Bucs with Jason Licht.
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Amazing how most turnarounds take less than 6 years. The Browns have 1 player who's been on the team through those years. So the GMs who drafted them are gone, the coaches who coached them are gone, and the player themselves are gone, but somehow they're part of this amazing 8 year long rebuild in Cleveland.

Bucs and Bills are much more relevant.

I have no idea why some people try so hard to defend incompetence and keep it place.

Hey guys, in 2026 we might make the playoffs! Unbelievable.
 
MrChadRico said:
No because your comparing them pre Mayfield. It didn't come together until they got him so the years your comparing are irrelevant IMO
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They had losing records the first 3 years with Mayfield.

How does that jibe with their coming together?

I get it, you just make stuff off the cuff to see who can catch it - LOL

Consider yourself caught - LOL

Looks like I'm right, AGAIN.

If the information I presented that you needed to realize you were wrong was a snake, it would have bit you.

From the venom I've seen in some of these posts, I concede that if the snake bit you, it would be the snake that died. _ LOL
 
Ray R said:
They had losing records the first 3 years with Mayfield.

How does that jibe with their coming together?

I get it, you just make stuff off the cuff to see who can catch it - LOL

Consider yourself caught - LOL

Looks like I'm right, AGAIN.

If the information I presented that you needed to realize you were wrong was a snake, it would have bit you.

From the venom I've seen in some of these posts, I concede that if the snake bit you, it would be the snake that died. _ LOL
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You're making stuff up. There is 1 player that's been on the team that entire time. How is that the 'start of their rebuild'? They also got to year 2 of their rebuild and fire an incompetent coaching staff then fired another incompetent coaching staff along with an incompetent front office so the Dolphins are behind in that they still have the incompetents.

So you can keep playing this "tHe bRoWns rEbUiLds sTaRtEd iN 2015" when there's very few people left from that time to make yourself feel better. That's fine. You do what you gotta do to get through the day. The rest of don't have to play along and know that rebuilds that take longer than 3 years have failed.

Year 1 - Teardown
Year 2 - Plucky Losing Team
Year 3 - Playoffs

They tore it down well, they had the plucky losing team year. In the put up or shut up year, there is dead silence.
 
Ray R said:
Prove it.

If that were the case, why didn't their drafts get bigger. Maybe they just ran out of money for that sort of thing. I wonder if the new coaches and GM's made as much money as their predecessors?

Let me know what you FIND OUT.
Your opinions are weak on logic and long on "it is because I said it is". Try digging into the facts - you may actually find something very interesting.
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Out of interest here though, have you proven the opposite? Not really. You've arbitrarily decided that a rebuild is denoted by a team having a large number of draft picks. I wouldn't say that's a fact. The large number of picks is a fact, you're decision to call that a point of a rebuild is an opinion. I'd wager it's more correct to say a new staff in place starts the rebuild again to be honest, my own personal opinion. Because FO's / coaching staff will nearly always have differing opinions on talents / schemes to the previous.
 
Ray R said:
The real question is, when did the rebuild begin.

Many posters here seem to be confusing that with when did the rebuild end, then they go back the number of years they think it should take and say" "here is where it started.

Saying things like there were rebuilds and then more rebuilds is an exercise in meaninglessness. There are seldom any significant changes (outside of some good luck) that can be pointed to, with the exception of creating a large draft. It takes some time and capital to do that, which means it represents a concerted new effort as opposed to continuing and repeated old efforts.

That's why I used the beginning of the creation of large drafts as the beginning of their rebuild. I've looked at all the replies to this thread to date, and have seen nothing to contradict my choice for the beginning of the Browns rebuild. There were some attempts, but the posters involved either couldn't add or they couldn't make a case that is better then the one I've detailed.
Click to expand...
Confirmation bias perhaps? Maybe you just don't agree with what they're saying, so you don't think their case is valid.
 
Ray R said:
They had losing records the first 3 years with Mayfield.

How does that jibe with their coming together?

I get it, you just make stuff off the cuff to see who can catch it - LOL

Consider yourself caught - LOL

Looks like I'm right, AGAIN.

If the information I presented that you needed to realize you were wrong was a snake, it would have bit you.

From the venom I've seen in some of these posts, I concede that if the snake bit you, it would be the snake that died. _ LOL
Click to expand...
Ray im not getting into it because I honestly don't care about the Browns and didn't pay close attention to when they acquired which players.

I know this, they have 2 star RBs in Chubb and Hunt. One of the best pass rushers in the NFL in Miles Garrett, Mayfield is no Hall of Famer yet but he is doing well, they have good corners and a good oline.... oh yeah and they have the best WR we've had in the last 10 years on their team in Jarvis.

If you wanna look at the positives and compair the rebuilds: I hope Phillips turns into Miles Garrett, hope Tua beomes a good QB and hope we find TWO stud running backs & an Oline & good coaching.

Their isn't many comparisons at the moment that's all im saying.
 
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