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What will Wilkins extension cost?

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Feverdream said:
This is the market for DTs. We've been trying to prepare you for this for months. It's become a much-more expensive position, just as Linebacker has become a much LESS expensive position.
More DTs go in the first round now... they get their 5th year options picked up at a higher rate too.
Sacks are no longer a prerequisite for getting paid... and for those who mention Suh, Wilkins is as close to that as anyone I can imagine. In his three years with us, he got 6, 5, and 4.5 sacks, and averaged right at 60 tackles a year (Wilkins has put up 75 and 81 the last two years).

You can keep repeating it, and ignoring reality, but Tackles are no longer paid on sacks. They just aren't.
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Tackles are no longer paid on sacks?? Let’s see the top 10 highest paid DTs.

1. Aaron Donald has had double digit sacks almost his entire career.
2. Jefferey Simmons- has had 8.5 and 7.5 sacks the last 2 seasons and has all pro selections
3. Dexter Lawrence- just got a huge deal coming off a 7.5 sack season and an all pro selection.
4. Daron Payne-just got a huge deal this year coming off an 11.5 sack season.
5. Deforest Buckner-has had no less than 7 sacks the last 5 years.
6. Javon Hargrave- last 2 seasons had 7.5 and 11 sack seasons and got paid by the 49ers for it.
7. Chris Jones has had no less than 7.5 sacks the last 5 years and is coming off a 15.5 sack season.
8. Jonathan Allen last 2 season last had 9 and 7.5 sacks
9. Vita Vea- 1 of 2 guys on the list with low sack numbers but even he had 4 and 6.5 sacks the last 2 years not bad
10. Kenny Clark- the second guy with low sack numbers with back to back 4 sack seasons.

So 8 of the top 10 DTs seem like they got their pay days based on sacks being a primary reason. The 2 guys at the bottom of the list are making $17 million

Also we didn’t pay Suh based on his production here we paid him based on what we thought he would do here based on the production he had with the Lions. With the lions he had 2 8 sack seasons and a 10 sack season. The year we signed him he was coming off an 8.5 sack season and 1st team all pro selection.

This ain’t the 70s. In a passing league sacks get you paid.
 
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superphin said:
Tackles are no longer paid on sacks?? Let’s see the top 10 paid DTs.

1. Aaron Donald has had double digit sacks almost his entire career.
2. Jefferey Simmons- has had 8.5 and 7.5 sacks the last 2 seasons and has all pro selections
3. Dexter Lawrence- just got a huge deal coming off a 7.5 sack season and an all pro selection.
4. Daron Payne-just got a huge deal this year coming off an 11.5 sack season.
5. Deforest Buckner-has had no less than 7 sacks the last 5 years.
6. Javon Hargrave- last 2 seasons had 7.5 and 11 sack seasons and got paid by the 49ers for it.
7. Chris Jones has had no less than 7.5 sacks the last 5 years and is coming off a 15.5 sack season.
8. Jonathan Allen last 2 season last had 9 and 7.5 sacks
9. Vita Vea- 1 of 2 guys on the list with low sack numbers but even he had 4 and 6.5 sacks the last 2 years not bad
10. Kenny Clark- the second guy with low sack numbers with back to back 4 sack seasons.

So 8 of the top 10 DTs seem like they got their pay days based on sacks being a primary reason. The 2 guys at the bottom of the list are making $17 million

Also we didn’t pay Suh based on his production here we paid him based on what we thought he would do here based on the production he had with the Lions. With the lions he had 2 8 sack seasons and a 10 sack season. The year we signed him he was coming off an 8.5 sack season and 1st team all pro selection.

This ain’t the 70s. In a passing league sacks get you paid.
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The two guys at the bottom are making 17m.

Your words.

But neither is the run stopping, team-leader that Wilkins is.

There are other metrics than sacks... and Wilkins are rising anyway.
 
Feverdream said:
The two guys at the bottom are making 17m.

Your words.

But neither is the run stopping, team-leader that Wilkins is.

There are other metrics than sacks... and Wilkins are rising anyway.
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Yes and your words were tackles don't get paid based off sacks and yet 80% of the top 10 got paid based off sacks. What insight do you have that Vea and Clark are not great leaders? You're right there are other metrics besides sacks but like I said in a passing league sacks are what get you paid. Wilkins will be 28 this year his prime has maybe 2-3 left before he hits the 30 wall. What we saw from Wilkins this past season is most likely his peak I don't see much rising from this point forward.
 
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superphin said:
Tackles are no longer paid on sacks?? Let’s see the top 10 paid DTs.

1. Aaron Donald has had double digit sacks almost his entire career.
2. Jefferey Simmons- has had 8.5 and 7.5 sacks the last 2 seasons and has all pro selections
3. Dexter Lawrence- just got a huge deal coming off a 7.5 sack season and an all pro selection.
4. Daron Payne-just got a huge deal this year coming off an 11.5 sack season.
5. Deforest Buckner-has had no less than 7 sacks the last 5 years.
6. Javon Hargrave- last 2 seasons had 7.5 and 11 sack seasons and got paid by the 49ers for it.
7. Chris Jones has had no less than 7.5 sacks the last 5 years and is coming off a 15.5 sack season.
8. Jonathan Allen last 2 season last had 9 and 7.5 sacks
9. Vita Vea- 1 of 2 guys on the list with low sack numbers but even he had 4 and 6.5 sacks the last 2 years not bad
10. Kenny Clark- the second guy with low sack numbers with back to back 4 sack seasons.

So 8 of the top 10 DTs seem like they got their pay days based on sacks being a primary reason. The 2 guys at the bottom of the list are making $17 million

Also we didn’t pay Suh based on his production here we paid him based on what we thought he would do here based on the production he had with the Lions. With the lions he had 2 8 sack seasons and a 10 sack season. The year we signed him he was coming off an 8.5 sack season and 1st team all pro selection.

This ain’t the 70s. In a passing league sacks get you paid.
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Good post and debate.

Let’s isolate Dexter Lawrence since he is the freshest example. Lawrence thrived in a new Defense; Wilkins may, too.

Yes, last year Lawrence recorded 7.5 sacks. However, his prior three years he averaged 3.5 sacks and his overall tackles, on average, are about 20 less per year then Wilkins. In 4 years he’s averaged 50 tackles and 4 sacks.

During the same timeframe, Wilkins has averaged 3.0 sacks and 70 tackles.

Would you swap one more sack for twenty less tackles?

Both players are more than comparable, and depending on system, quite valuable.
 
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I wouldn't give out more than 18 per for Wilkins and even there, I wouldn't be happy about it. The reason some decent pass rushing DTs are getting paid is because there aren't a whole lot of great ones, so teams over pay.

I'll be honest here, if Im going to over pay somewhere on a contending team, it wont be at run stuffing DT.
 
AquaHawk said:
Good post and debate.

Let’s isolate Dexter Lawrence since he is the freshest example.

Yes, last year he recorded 7.5 sacks, but prior three years he averaged 3.5 sacks. His overall tackles, on average, are about 20 less per year then Wilkins. In 4 years he’s averaged 50 tackles and 4 sacks.

During the same timeframe, Wilkins has averaged 3.0 sacks and 70 tackles.

Would you swap one more sack for twenty less tackles?

They are more than comparable, and depending on system, quite valuable. Lawrence thrived in a new Defense; Wilkins may, too.
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Lawrence will be 26 to Wilkins who will be 28. They both just had the best season of their careers for Lawrence it was a 7.5 sack season and at 26 he maybe has 4-5 years to give me something similar while also being a good run stopper. Wilkins best season was elite as a run stuffer but produced just 3.5 sacks and at 28 he has maybe 2-3 years to give me something similar.

Yes I would swap for the player who gives me 4-5 years compared to 2-3 years of elite play and potentially more sacks while still getting a quality run defender.
 
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bward6460 said:
I hate to break it to you, but that's just the market now.
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Wrong. It is the market if the GM's fold.

Look at the Watson/L. Jackson contracts. By every measure, Lamar should have gotten the Watson deal... and some. Because why? "That's the market now."

He didn't. Why? Because every GM in the league said...

1. We aren't fond of players not having agents, and like to business traditionally. So they didn't play into it much.

2. That Watson contract was a joke, an outlier, and we won't play that game making it the norm.

So no, the market doesn't have to turn into $20 - $21M for a DT that is not even the best in the league.
 
KevInMotion said:
Wrong. It is the market if the GM's fold.

Look at the Watson/L. Jackson contracts. By every measure, Lamar should have gotten the Watson deal... and some. Because why? "That's the market now."

He didn't. Why? Because every GM in the league said...

1. We aren't fond of players not having agents, and like to business traditionally. So they didn't play into it much.

2. That Watson contract was a joke, an outlier, and we won't play that game making it the norm.

So no, the market doesn't have to turn into $20 - $21M for a DT that is not even the best in the league.
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With 7 contracts now at/over $20MM AAV, and more to come, it’s safe to say the DT market has changed.
 
I personally think Wilkins really good but not as good as those other d tackles.
But whatever. You can argue that

Either way Grier shoulda got this contract done last year. Or before these tackles signed. Now it’s going to cost a lot more
And we will have to over pay compare to his production. And I don’t care about all the tackles. I care about tackles for loss
Pressures sacks. Batted passes. He should get around 17 million but he will get more.
 
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