Who do you take?

[Ikema]

Ok, but we have better OL coaching and some depth not to mention months to fortify this line. Taking an OL at #21 or even with first two picks doesn't guarantee we'll have a better OL. It often takes rookie linemen awhile to get used to the play speed and strength of opposing D-linemen and Edge rushers.
I think more OL is coming after 6/1 and we will spend one of the first two picks on an IOL.

I trust that this staff knows they can work with Aaron Brewer and will scheme to maximize his strengths and minimize the times he'll be overpowered by large DTs.

As much as I like Williams and Hunt (and Wynn) they were banged up a lot last year. Much of the fate of an OL is luck, keeping your line healthy and benefiting from continuity. We didn't have that last year but imo even with 12 or 13 different line combos we had a line who could pass and run block. Much of this was coaching and schemes but we did see better play from AJ and Eichenberg. Imo, Miami had horrible OL coaching and development in the past and hopefully we've turned the corner there but how many times did Miami invest high picks or free agent dollars on linemen at the expense of better players at other positions?

This team still has lots of needs and can't focus solely on their OL, especially in the draft. Fans have to realize that their HC and GM aren't as obsessed with putting five first round picks on the OL as they are.

For everyone who says "we have enough speed" did you miss the games when Waddle and/or Hill were not available? They are the focal point of this team and offense and are both used in many ways that will expose them to big hits. Throw in Waddle's upcoming free agency and Hill's off the field adventures and you realize taking a WR, especially one with more size and a different skill set than WR1 or 2, is a pretty good idea in this draft.

I'm not saying Miami will definitely do it but if they do (and the value at WR for pick #21 matches up) I would be on board. You can make the argument that that player, even in a third down role, would contribute faster and more than a rookie OL would.

I don't know if this is true but I heard there is some negativity around Brown from LSU and his attitude. Not sure if we want to get involved in that.

 

[Avigatorx]

I'll add this as well:

Our first 2 picks better be day 1 starters.

Take projects and part-timers after the 2nd round.

 

[Avigatorx]

For everyone who says "we have enough speed" did you miss the games when Waddle and/or Hill were not available? They are the focal point of this team and offense and are both used in many ways that will expose them to big hits. Throw in Waddle's upcoming free agency and Hill's off the field adventures and you realize taking a WR, especially one with more size and a different skill set than WR1 or 2, is a pretty good idea in this draft.

Im not sure we watched the same games or team at all.

Speed wasnt the problem, the oline was the problem.

Teams rushed 3 or 4 guys and dropped 7-8 in coverage. I dont care how fast you are, you aint getting open when it is 8 on 3 in the secondary.

Force defenses to blitz and we will have open receivers for days.

 

[Beach Bum]

I want an impact player so I would go with Byron Murphy. Latu has serious injury concerns, and I think Barry can work with an OL we pick later.

 

[Finswatch]

Its clear we are taking OL, as we should with a deep OL draft.

Im not sure we watched the same games or team at all.

Speed wasnt the problem, the oline was the problem.

Teams rushed 3 or 4 guys and dropped 7-8 in coverage. I dont care how fast you are, you aint getting open when it is 8 on 3 in the secondary.

Force defenses to blitz and we will have open receivers for days.

I think you missed my point. it's not a speed problem as much a problem of not having a receiving threat outside of the top two WR's. We had multiple games where Hill and/or Waddle were out. Those were the games, imo, where the offense was not close to functional. We were able to deal with OL injuries better than the injuries to either of our top 2 WRs. Miami could not rely on having just one good receiving option as the combo of Wilson, Berrios and Smythe were just not good enough to get open consistently or threaten a defense.

I don't think defenses are dropping 7 or 8 into coverage if Hill or Waddle are out. They wouldn't have to do that. They could easily defend our second or third options and instead would bring MORE pass rushers and make things tougher for our OL and offense to move the ball. If Miami has 3 or 4 viable receiving options it would be tougher for defenses to dictate coverages.

And I think we have to think about the possibility that our best WR may have earned himself a suspension for these recent off the field issues he's having.

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

I couldn't agree more. Bowers falling to 21 is something that would be amazing but he'll get gobbled up in the first 15 picks I'd say. There's a lot of DL and OL talent in this draft. We can do ourselves a lot of good if we just do what you so eloquently said, "fix the damn trenches already." It's time, bring in some monsters, some huge, tough killer athletes. Build a Dline that's like a wall, announcers should say it's tough sledding trying to run on these Dolphins. I also want to hear, look at all the time Tua has in the pocket!!

My gut tells me Jets at #10 for Bowers.

 

[Avigatorx]

I think you missed my point. it's not a speed problem as much a problem of not having a receiving threat outside of the top two WR's. We had multiple games where Hill and/or Waddle were out. Those were the games, imo, where the offense was not close to functional. We were able to deal with OL injuries better than the injuries to either of our top 2 WRs. Miami could not rely on having just one good receiving option as the combo of Wilson, Berrios and Smythe were just not good enough to get open consistently or threaten a defense.

I don't think defenses are dropping 7 or 8 into coverage if Hill or Waddle are out. They wouldn't have to do that. They could easily defend our second or third options and instead would bring MORE pass rushers and make things tougher for our OL and offense to move the ball. If Miami has 3 or 4 viable receiving options it would be tougher for defenses to dictate coverages.

And I think we have to think about the possibility that our best WR may have earned himself a suspension for these recent off the field issues he's having.

I got ya.

Still, WR is less of a problem imo.

It all circles back to having our 6 guys getting manslapped by 3 defenders and getting to Tua in under 2 seconds.

Teams figured us out. They dont blitz because our weakass oline cant block.

Speed, size, finesse, whatever you want to call it...it cant compensate for a numbers game. We lose the numbers game in the secondary because we lose the numbers game on the line of scrimmage.

No QB can find open receiver in under 3 seconds when there are 7-8 defenders dropping into coverage.

Now if you force them to rush more guys, we can handle a double team on Hill or Waddle. If you can force them to blitz because they cant beat us 5 on 5 at the LoS, then we will win in spades. Berrios, (Ced Wilson), Claypool, whoever else, can all get open.

You just cant get open in under 3 seconds with a clogged up secondary.

Edit: Which consequently, is why our run game was so effective at times. We could run the ball when teams were playing the pass, but on obvious rushing downs we were stopped handily. Our oline was weaksauce in both pass protect and run blocking, and opposing DCs KNEW that. (McDermott, Spags, Obrien, Harbaugh, and Vrabel.)

Gotta fix that weak ass oline, it will make our wr3-6 look way better.

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

This is 100% correct. I think projecting either Mims or Guyton to play meaningful snaps this year is fool's gold, yet fans, especially in the case of Mims, keep making this mistake.
This idea that a college tackle can automatically transition to guard in the pros is not reality.

Right. Mims or Guyton would be more about the future. I wouldn't feel comfortable with either at guard. I do think both could transition to LT. I'd gamble on that with their athletic testing numbers.

Of course, Miami could move Jackson back to LT, but I'm not really in favor of that since his career has taken off at RT.

 

[EJay]

but not Fautanu??

I almost posted the same thing. Especially after several others backed the move and never questioned who he was talking about.

Because it actually took me a minute to figure it out.

I mean, it could have meant LT Olu Fashanu from Penn State. Or OT Taliese Fuaga from Oregon State. Or OL Troy Fautanu from Washington.

A few missing or misplaced letters can actually mean something different. lol.

 

[Finswatch]

I got ya.

Still, WR is less of a problem imo.

It all circles back to having our 6 guys getting manslapped by 3 defenders and getting to Tua in under 2 seconds.

Teams figured us out. They dont blitz because our weakass oline cant block.

Speed, size, finesse, whatever you want to call it...it cant compensate for a numbers game. We lose the numbers game in the secondary because we lose the numbers game on the line of scrimmage.

No QB can find open receiver in under 3 seconds when there are 7-8 defenders dropping into coverage.

Now if you force them to rush more guys, we can handle a double team on Hill or Waddle. If you can force them to blitz because they cant beat us 5 on 5 at the LoS, then we will win in spades. Berrios, (Ced Wilson), Claypool, whoever else, can all get open.

You just cant get open in under 3 seconds with a clogged up secondary.

Edit: Which consequently, is why our run game was so effective at times. We could run the ball when teams were playing the pass, but on obvious rushing downs we were stopped handily. Our oline was weaksauce in both pass protect and run blocking, and opposing DCs KNEW that. (McDermott, Spags, Obrien, Harbaugh, and Vrabel.)

Gotta fix that weak ass oline, it will bake our wr3-6 look way better.

I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree. I will say this. I think we've been conditioned to think our OL is awful because it has more often than not, been awful in the past.

I think our OL under Butch Barry and the McDaniel offense played much better last season. Especially with 12 different combos starting. Yes, we run an offense predicated on Tua getting rid of the ball quickly because it is not a great pass blocking unit and they don't want Tua getting hit 50x per game. But part of the great thing about this O is that it is reliant on the strengths of our best players, Hill and Waddle. It is a timing offense that plays to Tua's strength's - make one quick read and get rid of the ball as his guys can beat their defenders off the line early. That goes away when one or both stars are out of the lineup.

I think it is too much of any OL (and Tua) to ask them to block for 2 seconds when our stars are playing and then turn around and ask them to block for 3-5 seconds when Berrios and lesser receivers are playing. That's a different and way less effective offense. A good DC is going to exploit any OL if he only has one threat to deal with in the passing game. When Hill, Waddle and I'll throw in Achane, too, were off the field for any reason (and that happened a lot last year) it became much easier for teams to stop the offense.

I'm also looking at the value of the draft board in the top 32 picks and the only realistic OL pick I see us having a chance to draft that could come in and make our offense better is Graham Barton. I'd love JPJ but think the brass has already made their mind up about the center position. I love Fatanu, he's my top pick overall, but I really think he's going to be gone by 21. Mims is not a left tackle or guard and gets hurt all the time. He left Indy with another hamstring injury. Guyton is an interesting developmental guy who is probably only a LT and will need time.

There's 3-4 WRs in the 21-32 range that I think could help us right away, now and for the future.

 

[Avigatorx]

I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree. I will say this. I think we've been conditioned to think our OL is awful because it has more often than not, been awful in the past.

I think our OL under Butch Barry and the McDaniel offense played much better last season. Especially with 12 different combos starting. Yes, we run an offense predicated on Tua getting rid of the ball quickly because it is not a great pass blocking unit and they don't want Tua getting hit 50x per game. But part of the great thing about this O is that it is reliant on the strengths of our best players, Hill and Waddle. It is a timing offense that plays to Tua's strength's - make one quick read and get rid of the ball as his guys can beat their defenders off the line early. That goes away when one or both stars are out of the lineup.

I think it is too much of any OL (and Tua) to ask them to block for 2 seconds when our stars are playing and then turn around and ask them to block for 3-5 seconds when Berrios and lesser receivers are playing. That's a different and way less effective offense. A good DC is going to exploit any OL if he only has one threat to deal with in the passing game. When Hill, Waddle and I'll throw in Achane, too, were off the field for any reason (and that happened a lot last year) it became much easier for teams to stop the offense.

I'm also looking at the value of the draft board in the top 32 picks and the only realistic OL pick I see us having a chance to draft that could come in and make our offense better is Graham Barton. I'd love JPJ but think the brass has already made their mind up about the center position. I love Fatanu, he's my top pick overall, but I really think he's going to be gone by 21. Mims is not a left tackle or guard and gets hurt all the time. He left Indy with another hamstring injury. Guyton is an interesting developmental guy who is probably only a LT and will need time.

There's 3-4 WRs in the 21-32 range that I think could help us right away, now and for the future.

I can link videos of the all 22s if that will help you.

Its not the receivers brother.

Tua has never had to release the ball in 2 seconds until this year. Just because he CAN do it, doesnt mean that is all he can do.

This team is weak at positions it needs to be strong. The trenches need work. A 3rd receiver is a luxury, one that I would rather address in free agency than spending a premium draft pick on.

 

[Finswatch]

I can link videos of the all 22s if that will help you.

Its not the receivers brother.

Tua has never had to release the ball in 2 seconds until this year. Just because he CAN do it, doesnt mean that is all he can do.

This team is weak at positions it needs to be strong. The trenches need work. A 3rd receiver is a luxury, one that I would rather address in free agency than spending a premium draft pick on.

I could talk about this all day- enjoying this and hope I'm not rambling but have a lot of thoughts about the draft and the construction of the OL/offense.

Biggest mistake we made with the OL was in the 2020 draft. Were in striking distance of trading up for Tristan Wirfs and we stood pat and drafted AJ. Wirfs was ready to go right away bc of his strength, experience and maturity. AJ, obviously, was not close to ready and was a liability for 3 years. Wirfs became an all-Pro right away. I fear we make the same mistake if we reach for a RT we think can play LT or guard and say this kid will help us right away because he's got the measurables or played at Georgia, whatever.

I agree with you that this is not a good pass blocking unit at all. I think we're at the bottom of the league at the pass block win rate. I'm all for taking a better pass protector in round 1 if that guy can play right away and I hope I'm wrong but I don't see that guy in our range in the draft this year. We keep talking about a deep OL draft but is anybody really excited about an OL after the first 40 picks or so? I think Christian Haynes or Jordan Morgan is the line I'd draw and I'm not even sure those guys would contribute much right away.

That's the problem when you're picking late in the first round or you give up your first or second round picks. We're a win now team that needs a player who can come in right away and contribute. I think our best chance to get better blockers will come via trade or after 6/1. The other issue is that teams aren't cutting or trading good OL for the most part.

For me, the OL was at its worst two-three years ago when Jesse Davis was starting at either a tackle position or right guard. He routinely got his QB killed and was responsible for AJ Espenesa crushing Tua and breaking his ribs and may have been involved in that Bengals rag-doll tackle that almost got Tua killed.

I think McDaniel made the decision after the worst year in the history of Miami OL play that Tua HAS to get the ball out quick if he's going to survive. I don't know that it will change as it works well when we have enough healthy guys on the field. The OL last year had a much better PFF rating than in year's past despite their pass block struggles. A better scheme and coaching has helped and for whatever reason this coach and GM don't seem inclined to take OL high in the draft.

One last point on taking a WR- he's not really a 3rd receiver or a luxury if your two stars miss multiple games, and they will. I'm really concerned #10 has pushed his luck with Goodell too far and will pay for it. I think a lot of your points are correct but an O with only one scary receiver can too easily be shut down, no matter how good your OL is. Line up Cracraft and Berrios enough times and the D will blitz the hell out of our already suspect line.

I hate to give the Jets credit for anything but I will in this case. They knew they had to rebuild their OL with vets who could step in and protect Rodgers. I wish we had spent some of the money we had to pick up a better guard. I think Jack Driscoll might be a sleeper but I'll feel a lot better when they add at least one veteran guard who has a proven track record and has stayed healthy.

Bottom line is that I think we're both right but it's just a question of how you choose to address the problem.

 

[Aqua Marino (UK)]

I he

If Bowers is there (extremely unlikely) I'd run to that podium. He's the best TE I've seen come out of college and is one of the main reasons Georgia won two straight natties.
He would be a game changer for the Miami offense and would be too good to pass up. Too big for a DB, too fast for LB's to cover and just the ultimate winner and team guy

I hear ya buddy. I just don't think they will do it.

 

[BSQ]

This is 100% correct. I think projecting either Mims or Guyton to play meaningful snaps this year is fool's gold, yet fans, especially in the case of Mims, keep making this mistake.
This idea that a college tackle can automatically transition to guard in the pros is not reality.

I wonder why people get this wrong so often. Then they're shocked that their 2nd rounder Tackle can't play Guard at all. Why be shocked, he never has?? Tunsil had played some Guard before he was a Dolphin at BYU so that's what we have to find if we're thinking that way. A players who's excelled at both positions at the college level. They're more rare than people think.

 

[BSQ]

I think you missed my point. it's not a speed problem as much a problem of not having a receiving threat outside of the top two WR's. We had multiple games where Hill and/or Waddle were out. Those were the games, imo, where the offense was not close to functional. We were able to deal with OL injuries better than the injuries to either of our top 2 WRs. Miami could not rely on having just one good receiving option as the combo of Wilson, Berrios and Smythe were just not good enough to get open consistently or threaten a defense.

I don't think defenses are dropping 7 or 8 into coverage if Hill or Waddle are out. They wouldn't have to do that. They could easily defend our second or third options and instead would bring MORE pass rushers and make things tougher for our OL and offense to move the ball. If Miami has 3 or 4 viable receiving options it would be tougher for defenses to dictate coverages.

And I think we have to think about the possibility that our best WR may have earned himself a suspension for these recent off the field issues he's having.

Hill and Waddle were playing hurt when they were in there. They weren't at their top speed and cutting abilities. Both missed games and played banged up. We need better luck with injuries.