Why does the defense SUCK...

[RUDEbyallMEANS]

In the most important game of the year, Miami's defense allowed 3 points and the Miami offense gave away 9 points in Foxboro..

Miami's offense is rightfully getting all the attention this off-season..

My only concern is if Miami will re-sign Buckley.. Who will take his place if they don't??

 

[Stamos]

Originally posted by Gladsadmad
I'll go further to prove my point..

The Ravens have a good defense right? Against Seattle they gave up 41 points..guess what? They scored 44. They won!

The Titans have a good defense right? Against Atlanta they gave up 31 points...guess what? They scored 38.They Won!

The Cowboys have a good defense right? Against the Giants they gave up 32 points...guess what? They scored 35. They won!

You get the idea.

I'll go even further to negate your point.

You want to pinpoint specific games DURING the season, I'll pinpoint games at the END of the season.

You picked the Cowboys, Titans, and Ravens.

Dallas clinched a playoff berth week 16 against the Giants, behind a great defensive effort. They gave up 3 points.

The Ravens won their division week 17 by another strong defensive effort winning 13-10.

The Titans battled for the division til the last week, behind a strong defensive performance against Tampa Bay winning 33-13, and giving up a TD late to make it look less like an *** kicking.

You gotta make better excuses, or better points cause neither hold any water.

And oh ya, Miami's last game? for all intents and purposes was the Eagles game. Who lost that one? Why should we expect anything different, they sucked at the end of 2002 too.

How long before we stop letting them go unblamed?

 

[Stamos]

Originally posted by RUDEbyallMEANS
In the most important game of the year, Miami's defense allowed 3 points and the Miami offense gave away 9 points in Foxboro..

Miami's offense is rightfully getting all the attention this off-season..

You can't shower the defense with praise for the game in New England. Everyone and there mother knows New England would've scored a whole hell of alot more points in a game played in bearable conditions.

That wasn't the game that ended our season, that ended our SLIGHT chance at winning the division, which as it turns out we had no shot at anyway. Going into the Eagles game we had a legit chance at winning the wild card, and low and behold, would've won it with that game. But on the bright side, unlike 2002, the defense didn't surrender the game the offense had won against New England, they just flat out sucked for the coin flip.

You can say the Defense did this or that in New England, but you know damn well that had more to do with the snow and cold.

Its all mute point I guess anyway, because if the offense doesn't carry us to wins against Dallas and Washington, we would've been out of it long before december.

Again I ask, why the need to defend them? Is it because its what everyone bases their hope for 2004 on? A great defense?

 

[Danny]

I have to say that for all the probowlres on that defence, they have never play up to it. They're the paper champ defence. I'm not saying that they're horrible or anything like that. Just saying that they're overrated big time and points allowed doesn't tell the whole story. They couldn't seem to be able to get off the field cos they gave up too many big plays on 3rd down and cos they couldn't tackle either. So in the end, maybe they gave up only a field goal on such drives but our offence was on the sidelines for 7 or 8 minutes at a time. I'm not the only one saying this, even Madden said he was surprised at how bad our defence was when it came to tackling.They have talent but have never fully lived up to it.

Ozzy rules!!

 

[Stamos]

Anyone brave enough to stand up and agree with me? Or do you feel more comfortable passing the blame solely on offense, so you can sleep easier thinking were better then we really are.

 

[Stamos]

Fyi...I am sure many people are wondering why I even started this thread. Its simple really, I hate Jim Bates. And I seriously can't understand why he has a job with us, aside from the fact that Dave is comfortable with him.

If the only reason he has a job is because of the overall statistical achievements of this defense under his coordinatorship, thats ludacris. The sheer fact that so many players are in the probowls, yet the on the field results haven't been nearly up to par with those individual achievements leads me to one conclusion, Bates blows.

If you measure head coaches and players by how they perform in big games, why should coordinators be any different. I guess its a bit late to go and hire a DC, and Bates has a new contract coming his way soon. God I hope its only for a year or 2, but with my luck it will be a lifetime contract.

 

[Phinguy]

The defense is good but not great. It can be made better with just a few tweaks, unlike the offense, which needs a new O-line, a new number two reciever (or a rookie needs to step up) and not to mention a quarterback. So for the offseason the offense definately needs more attention.

So Stamos, with all the talk about how lousy our D is what do you think we should do for the offseason?

 

[Stamos]

Originally posted by Phinguy

So Stamos, with all the talk about how lousy our D is what do you think we should do for the offseason?

Its to late to do what I had hoped, which is hire a new defensive coordinator. As much as I blame the players, I'll blame the coaches equally and specifically Jim Bates. Like I said in the post above, I can't see any reason for the man still having a job, especially considering the regression that I believe has taken place in the defense each of the last 2 seasons.

Hell if you go back and look at the last month of the 2002 season, you'll scratch your head and only then fully grasp just how HORRIBLE the defense was.

I think our 2 primary concerns on defense is speed at LB and a second corner. Sam Madison belongs in the overrated hall of fame, right next to Donovan McNabb and Brian Urlacher.

 

[Phinguy]

And what do ya think for the offense?

 

[Stamos]

Originally posted by Phinguy
And what do ya think for the offense?

I don't think, I pray.

But seriously, I think 1 or 2 upgrades can be had easily, at OG and WR. I don't buy into the whole overhaul theory many are throwing around. My opinions on this matter are very unpopular, because I like Mark Brunell or Philip Rivers. But I fully understand why so many Fins fans want to have flesh blood in a QB.

Its also no secret I am Jay Fiedler's biggest fan. Not because I think he can go to the pro bowl, not because I think he can have a 25 TD 10 INT season, which actually could be possible. If he's back starting, I would be perfectly ok, with HIM. Its no mystery his and Brian's short comings were directly effected by the OL and WR's. Changing the QB won't make any of the WR's any better, and all is irrelevant if they aren't protected. Even the great Ricky Williams was made average, doesn't make him any worse of a RB.

That said, I am hoping Jamie Nails can regain his pre injury form in 2004, and move to RG where I feel he belongs and playing along side the resigned Todd Wade. I absolutely love the potential of Wade Smith, and while his rookie season was full of bumps and bruises, it will only help him progress tremendously into his sophomore season, a season in which I see him going from scapegoat, to major cog on the OL.

Everyone can agree on one thing, a No.2 WR is needed, and quite possibly the biggest need on the team. Ideally Issac Bruce finishes his career in Miami, while a guy like Michael Jenkins, who is a prototype No.2 to play next to Chris Chambers is drafted.

As far as that other guard spot, Adam Timmerman is the one affordable free agent who I think can actually help out. But there are 2 very good young restricted free agent guards I am enamored with. Rick Demulling of the Colts, and Bennie Anderson of the Ravens, as far as the tender required for those guy, we don't know yet. But if all goes well with Ogunleye, we'll have a second third rounder which I would gladly give up for either of those guards.

Only time will tell if McKinney and Whitley can actually play, but McKinney at the very least is better then Tim Ruddy.

 

[Gladsadmad]

Originally posted by Stamos


I'll go even further to negate your point.

You want to pinpoint specific games DURING the season, I'll pinpoint games at the END of the season.

You picked the Cowboys, Titans, and Ravens.

Dallas clinched a playoff berth week 16 against the Giants, behind a great defensive effort. They gave up 3 points.

The Ravens won their division week 17 by another strong defensive effort winning 13-10.

The Titans battled for the division til the last week, behind a strong defensive performance against Tampa Bay winning 33-13, and giving up a TD late to make it look less like an *** kicking.

You gotta make better excuses, or better points cause neither hold any water.

And oh ya, Miami's last game? for all intents and purposes was the Eagles game. Who lost that one? Why should we expect anything different, they sucked at the end of 2002 too.

How long before we stop letting them go unblamed?

Just because those teams had good games later in the year..that negates my point? Those games that I mentioned were examples of teams that struggled in a game defensively and still won. THAT was my point. You didn't negate my point. My point wasn't that they did that in "big" games..I said nothing like that. The problem is that I don't think you understand my point. My point was that it happens...either at the beginning, the middle or the end it happens. You know, every game counts!

You still haven't answered my points about the NE defense. Based on your logic, the Pats need to overhaul their defense too. The Colts/Pats game in the reg season was for home field advantage, right? The Pats defense gave up 34 points (big game). The Pats defense also faltered in the Super Bowl (big game)Is that coming up big? Wait..the Colts defense stunk vs. the Chiefs in the playoffs (big game)..they need an overhaul too..wait the Panthers defense stunk in the Super Bowl (big game)...they need an overhaul too. And on and on and on...

I know you'll say that the Pats defense came up big in other big games but the ones I mentioned were just as big as those. Besides, you keep ignoring the fact that Miami held NE to 3 points in a huge game for the division. Why won't you address that?

Are you sure you still like the Dolphins? I mean..geez..we're all rooting for the same team here. If the Dolphin defense sucks then Miami should've finished 4-12 by your view. You keep harping on ONE game...the Eagles. I was mad too at the time...but I have the sense to look at the season as a whole and understand that the offense is what is holding this team back. All that matters is winning the stinkin' game...and for ONCE, I'd like to see the offense bail the defense out and actually WIN the game.

Tell me...how many times has the defense bailed out the offense for a victory? Hmm?..a little lop-sided wouldn't you say?

 

[Gladsadmad]

Originally posted by Stamos


Its to late to do what I had hoped, which is hire a new defensive coordinator. As much as I blame the players, I'll blame the coaches equally and specifically Jim Bates. Like I said in the post above, I can't see any reason for the man still having a job, especially considering the regression that I believe has taken place in the defense each of the last 2 seasons.

Hell if you go back and look at the last month of the 2002 season, you'll scratch your head and only then fully grasp just how HORRIBLE the defense was.

I think our 2 primary concerns on defense is speed at LB and a second corner. Sam Madison belongs in the overrated hall of fame, right next to Donovan McNabb and Brian Urlacher.

I agree...I was disappointed by the defense. I personally don't care WHEN they struggle..be it the beginning, the middle or the end of the season. It's bad ANY time of the year. I just can't see how they went 10-6 if they were so mediocre. If Miami has a top 10 offense next season, do you think Miami will be worse? I don't think so...I think they can be a great team. Maybe I'm just too optimistic. Stamos, you're depressing me.

By the way, did you ever think about how Miami's defense would play if they actually had a nice lead given to them by the offense? Maybe they wouldn't play so tight...maybe they would play looser and take more chances...which lead to big plays. I'm just saying..maybe.

 

[Stamos]

First off, let me RE-explain the whole premise for this thread. I didn't start the thread soley to bash the defense, it was to take away alot of the unjust blame places SOLELY on the offense.

I pin point the Eagles game because thats the game that ended our season. I don't live to bash the defense or anything. I am well aware of what took place in New England the week before, and everyone is nuts if they think that Miami's defense is what held New England to 3 points. The weather did that. But that aside, I'll give the defense the benefit of the doubt. They did play great.

This isn't a new idea I just happened to feel like posting tonight. Its a trend, it happened last year, but last year it was much more extreme. But like last year, everyone blamed Jay Fiedler and the offense solely for missing the playoffs, nevermind the fact that the Fins scored 271 points in Fiedler's 10 starts last year.

And the defense didn't ONLY suck *** against the Eagles. The offense bailed them out against Washington and Dallas, or we would've never even had a chance at the playoffs.

I am not foolish enough to judge a whole season on one performance, like your citing with the Patriots in the superbowl. When you win 15 games a row your allowed to get away with a poor performance in a win. But unlike New England in the superbowl, the Dolphins Defense sucked for 4 quarters and couldn't get off the fiedl to save our season.

What happened against Philly, Dallas, and Washington is a trend of late season futility. Much like Buffalo, New England, and Minnesota in 2002.

 

[Gladsadmad]

I just can't see Miami doing anything else to "fix" the defense. If they spend any more money on that side of the ball people will be furious. We'll just have to live with it I guess.

"I am not foolish enough to judge a whole season on one performance, like your citing with the Patriots in the superbowl."

Foolish..'eh? One performance..'eh? OK, here ya go..

Pats gave up 30 to the Titans
Pats gave up 31 to the Bills
Pats gave up 26 to the Broncos
Pats gave up 34 to the Colts
Pats gave up 29 to the Panthers

That more than one..'eh?

 

[Stamos]

Originally posted by Gladsadmad

Maybe I'm just too optimistic. Stamos, you're depressing me.

I am not trying to upset anyone here. Nothing would make me happier then knowing my defense will always prevail, but there is no reason to assume they will ever be able to carry this team to a championship, when they can't even carry them into the playoffs.

Like I said, I started this thread so people would step back and start looking at things in a bigger picture. And that is that Miami's offense wasn't the sole problem in 2003, it wasn't the only reason we lost 6 games. 5 of our 6 losses can be blamed atleast partially on the defense, and in least a couple wins they played horrible.

There not as good as people like to think. And I attribute that largely to Jim Bates.

If your naturally an optimistic person, continue to do so, I am neither optomisitic nor pessimistic about the future. I've learned that there are many things in life I can't control, and this is one of them. I play the cards I am dealt, and in this case, can only watch, albeit from here on out in a very guarded manner.