Would you trade up from 18 for a shot at Pitts?? | Page 6 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Would you trade up from 18 for a shot at Pitts??

We should be all over a trade up to 10/11/12 if it only takes our 50th and some late round pick (Value chart says 18 and 50 = 10). Adding a top talent that falls a bit is an easy decision....we could talking about adding a M.Parsons, J.Waddle, K.Pitts with our pick at #3, how freakin' amazing would that be.
 
I’m interested in gesicki and 18 to move up for pitts.

I think pitts is one of the 5 best players in this class for Miami

I don’t think I’d be interested in also giving up future picks however.

I’m struggling with finding ideal targets at 18 anyways.
 
Digital said:
Sorry to reply to my own post, but it felt a little late to modify it.

I missed the part about including Gesicki in the trade in the OP, and would add the caveat to my quoted post that if we trade up from 18 to get Pitts, that 's a smart move. But, Gesicki is already a better asset than Pitts, and our hope is that Pitts becomes what Gesicki has already become--a true mismatch that makes teams gameplan for him. Teams single-cover Parker. They gameplan against Gesicki. Him running seam routes makes it almost impossible to build a good scheme against, which is why we keep seeing him catching intermediate and long passes straight up the gut of the defense, and everyone keeps asking, 'how does a defense not know this is coming, and how have they not stopped this yet?' The answer is that he is a mismatch, a 6'6 guy with a 41" vertical, long arms and strong hands who excels at contested catches ... oh yeah, and he runs a freakin' 4.5 so LB's can't keep up with him and he dwarfs and outmuscles CB's. Only a S has a prayer of covering him ... and they're not going to do it successfully alone, so the scheme needs to keep one eye on him at all times.

Anyone drafting Pitts is hoping he becomes the exact same thing. Gesicki will command money, sure, but it's because he _already is_ that matchup monster that Pitts may or may not become, and it probably will not be as far progressed until he's had a few NFL years under his belt. At that time, who knows what the team needs will be, or how much his contract renegotiation will cost. Better to take the bird in the hand with a phenomenally high ceiling (Gesicki), than a guy who is almost as good in Pitts. Pitts is unlikely to be longer than Mike Gesicki (6'6 + long arms + 41" vetrical). Pitts is about the same speed, and about the same height, so we're probably talking about a similar ceiling for both players. But if you want better production and defense-threat in 2021, 2022, it's clear Gesicki is the guy you want.

My previous post was about the prospect Pitts being worthy of trading up. I realize now that I didn't make that clear. Sorry. My perspective was pairing Pitts with Gesicki, giving us two interchangable monsters who were both mismatch nightmares, and creating havoc for defenses. Essentially, both guys are big slot receivers ... but teams rarely have even 1 guy who can cover that. Making them plan to cover 2 of them ... that makes OC's salivate. At best, we have Parker as our #1, with Gesicki and Preston Williams playing those roles now. If we added Pitts, we would move Williams to be Parker's backup. We would also need someone with supreme speed to work in and keep the defenses focusing deep and opening up the underneath for Tua's bread and butter short throws, which are the staple of the NFL these days.
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Well thought out argument. However, as a Gator, I have watched ever snap of Pitts' time with the Gators. He is out of the box better than MG in every way. He's more shifty, he's equally sure handed, he seems stronger, he seems quicker and he DEFINITELY can out block MG which is really his achilles heal. I really like MG and have been a big fan but Pitts is an All-Pro by year two. Now with that said, I wouldn't trade MG as he's an established weapon and there's plenty of room with some creative play calling to get them on the field together which is going to send many DCs to AA. Moving from 18 to say 10 to get KP is doable just by flipping them the 50th pick which is our 2b (#10 is 1300 points in value and our 18th plus 50th equal the same amount though there may need to be some pot sweetening). With 2a we then snag Willaims from UNC. We've now walked away with Smith/Chase, Pitts and Williams supercharging our weaponry.
 
Fin-Loco said:
Well thought out argument. However, as a Gator, I have watched ever snap of Pitts' time with the Gators. He is out of the box better than MG in every way. He's more shifty, he's equally sure handed, he seems stronger, he seems quicker and he DEFINITELY can out block MG which is really his achilles heal. I really like MG and have been a big fan but Pitts is an All-Pro by year two. Now with that said, I wouldn't trade MG as he's an established weapon and there's plenty of room with some creative play calling to get them on the field together which is going to send many DCs to AA. Moving from 18 to say 10 to get KP is doable just by flipping them the 50th pick which is our 2b (#10 is 1300 points in value and our 18th plus 50th equal the same amount though there may need to be some pot sweetening). With 2a we then snag Willaims from UNC. We've now walked away with Smith/Chase, Pitts and Williams supercharging our weaponry.
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While I'm not as high on Pitts as some, I haven't watched him nearly as much as you.

The other part of that scenario is MG is in the final year of his contract.

If they have decided against an extension, now is the time to replace him. It isn't necessarily a matter of having both.
 
Mach2 said:
While I'm not as high on Pitts as some, I haven't watched him nearly as much as you.

The other part of that scenario is MG is in the final year of his contract.

If they have decided against an extension, now is the time to replace him. It isn't necessarily a matter of having both.
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Why not pay MG to stay AND have Pitts on a rookie contract?
 
Fin-Loco said:
Why not pay MG to stay AND have Pitts on a rookie contract?
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I have no problem keeping MG (assuming a fair price), regardless of Pitts.

I was just suggesting another possible scenario.
 
I wouldn't as our mixture of TE's is very good (not great) right now and we have other major needs. I would rather get Smith and possibly Harris at RB and keep our draft capital to try and fill other needs (OL, pass rush, safety, etc.)
 
How far up can you go with #18 and #82?

I would not give up #50.
 
Fin-Loco said:
Well thought out argument. However, as a Gator, I have watched ever snap of Pitts' time with the Gators. He is out of the box better than MG in every way. He's more shifty, he's equally sure handed, he seems stronger, he seems quicker and he DEFINITELY can out block MG which is really his achilles heal. I really like MG and have been a big fan but Pitts is an All-Pro by year two. Now with that said, I wouldn't trade MG as he's an established weapon and there's plenty of room with some creative play calling to get them on the field together which is going to send many DCs to AA. Moving from 18 to say 10 to get KP is doable just by flipping them the 50th pick which is our 2b (#10 is 1300 points in value and our 18th plus 50th equal the same amount though there may need to be some pot sweetening). With 2a we then snag Willaims from UNC. We've now walked away with Smith/Chase, Pitts and Williams supercharging our weaponry.
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Maybe. But there is a long list of guys who were dominant in college with superior physical traits who failed. For every Shannon Sharpe, there were 10 guys scouts thought would be superior to him. I really like Pitts' potential. I like his ceiling, his productivity, ability to show up in big games, and his game translates to the pros. But most athletes do not live up to their athletic potential. Even Mike Gesicki hasn't lived up to his potential yet, but he is advancing consistently and quickly towards a very high ceiling.

Blocking, sure, Pitts may well become the better blocker. In fact, I expect it. But, his use case isn't going to be as a real two-way TE most likely. His use case is as an occasional blocker. Gronkowski was a true throwback who dominated in all phases of the game. Sure, people see his receiving skills and say he's amazing. But few people realize he was an excellent pass protecting TE, and an excellent run blocking TE. The biggest statistic to measure his ability was that the ENTIRE Patriot offense did dramatically better when Gronk was on the field. The Yards Per Play (YPP) went up dramatically when he was on the field, far higher than any other TE in the league, probably in history. Teams had to gameplan around his pass catching, because he was a 6'7 big guy with tremendous power and width, but also with elite speed to run seam routes. He also has strong hands, so he isn't going to be out-physicaled, and unless the LB is very fast, he's going to dust any LB coverage. There is a 0% that either Gesicki or Pitts will become that player. The question is ... how will a team make best use of the player Pitts (and Gesicki) are?

For both Pitts and Gesicki, it is as being a Move TE basically as a big slot receiver and mismatch threat. Sure, they'll be asked to do a small amount of blocking ... but WR's are asked to block these days, not just TE's. Ultimately, Pitts is a receiver and not a full-service TE, no matter where he lines up. I don't see his pass catching potential being higher than Gesicki's ... but we don't really know yet. I still recall when everyone thought Eric Ebron was a generational prospect ... or OJ Howard. I remember when people kept declaring how Gesicki was the 4th best TE and we made some huge mistake by drafting him. All the while I was a strong advocate for Gesicki ... because I saw his potential and development and believed in him. Now all those naysayers have faded back into the background, and Gesicki is well on his way to becoming an exceptional TE in this league.

Pitts has a long way to go to fulfill his potential. But I like the player and the potential. As for comparisons with Gesicki ... I think many people never wanted to admit that Gesicki is just flat out good. So far those people have all been wrong. If Pitts delivers on his potential along the same curve that Gesicki does, they'll be comparable players with an argument for either. But I'm definitely not ready to concede that Pitts is the player Gesicki is. For his sake, I hope he becomes that and lives up to his potential. We'll just have to wait and see.

People like who they like. But Gesicki is good, and if he were on a marquee team in another city, people would be gaga over him. But our bias crowns some guys kings and ignores other guys talent and production. Our board seems to have a fairly strong number of people who honestly believed Josh Rosen was great, when nothing ever indicated he was. I had to defend Xavien Howard for almost 3 years before he made good, but boy did he ever prove himself. I have similar faith in Mike Gesicki. I applaud that you seem to have that same faith in Pitts, who is a similar type of prospect, but more advanced in his progression on the college stage.
 
FINOMINAL said:
I'd love to trade down just a couple of spots and take him with our first pick. Charlie Campbell has a mock draft with the Eagles taking Pitts at six. This is a team almost every draft has looking for the replacement for Carson Wentz in a quarterback heavy draft. And here’s why he thinks that- “Team sources say they think Pitts is a top-10 talent due to his dynamic ability as a receiver, and some scouts feel he is the best receiving weapon in the 2021 NFL Draft. Some think he could play wide receiver and be a poor man's Calvin Johnson. Others think that Pitts should stay at tight end but could be a Travis Kelce- or Tony Gonzalez-caliber weapon. The consensus among team evaluators is that Pitts is a far better tight end prospect than T.J. Hockenson, Ebron, O.J. Howard or Evan Engram.”

No offense to Gesicki, nobody has ever compared him to Calvin Johnson, Tony Gonzales or Travis Kelce. Let alone all three.
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and nobody ever will lol

the Calvin Johnson stuff is a little strange unless this kids gonna blister it at some 4.39 clip which I don’t see coming
 
My advise for pitts is stay at tight end and be Travis Kelce. It’s in the cards.

flex split in line iso. Not gonna live in line and that’s ok. Waist is too thin to project any real living there. Do what you do. Win

primary in line tight ends have different frames. Even kelce has a more true tight end frame. And he doesn’t live primarily in line either
 
gregorygrant83 said:
Curious to see if Miami fans would be willing to trade the 18th overall pick and Gesicki to move up and draft Kyle Pitts? The Dolphins might need to toss in a future pick too, but it might be worth it.
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stop trying to give this team's talent away and draft picks, if he's that valuable to give away picks then pick him #3 and get your receiver at 18, the dolphins aren't hurting for receivers IMHO they just need a different skill set type of receiver.
 
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