Yanks scouting Burrell and Abreu

[MikeO]

If they were to trade him, what do you think they'd get?

a marginal player with a bad contract

 

[phunwin]

How is it that the Mets can't get Livan Hernandez without giving up Lastings Milledge but the Yankees can get Bobby Abreu without giving up a Phillip Hughes/ top prospect type? It just doesn't make sense.

That's a poor example to illustrate your point. Everyone knows at this point that Jim Bowden is getting fired as soon as new ownership takes over, so he's asking for the moon in any trade.

The reason why I'm suggesting that this trade won't work is for a few reasons: 1.) If anyone actually reads the link MikeO posted the article states that the Phillies want a top line starter back for Abreu. Which top line starter do the Yankees have or afford to trade? Carl Pavano or Jaret Wright? 2.) Who are the Yankees going to give up that will help the Phillies out? Like I said and have been saying the Phillies are in the race right now and although I'm sure the Phillies would love to dump Abreu or Burrell's money how can they do that without getting something good back in return that would make the team better?

Absolutely true. The point a lot of people here have been making (falsely), though, is that the Yankees would have to give up a serious haul for Abreu, and that's not true. The fact that their personnel may not be a fit for what the Phillies want doesn't change the fact that the Phillies will take 60 or 70 cents on the dollar in trade to get rid of Abreu. A hitter of Abreu's caliber, in theory, should command a bona fide #1 starter in trade. Well, they're not going to get that, and they know it. If they got, I don't know, a guy like John Lackey, they'd do it. A solid #2/#3 starter type who eats up a lot of innings, but isn't a star.

Obviously, the Yankees don't have a starter to spare on their current roster. But that doesn't change the fact that Abreu could be had for a lot less than people here seem to think. Maybe they get a third team involved, acquire a #2/#3 starter for Melky Cabrera and a good prospect, and then ship said starter to Philly.

If the Yankees can get Abreu or Burrell without giving up a Top 100 Prospect than why can't say a team like the Red Sox trade the Phils: Nixon, Clement and Lenny DiNardo or Abe Alarvez?

Nothing except for the fact that Clement is a train wreck, and a fairly expensive train wreck at that. DiNardo is an inexpensive train wreck. Those guys have zero trade value at this point. In fact, Clement has negative trade value. But before the season, I bet the Phillies would have taken Bronson Arroyo and a B level prospect for Abreu.

Abe Alvarez is a pretty good prospect, though. Nixon and Alvarez would be an offer the Phillies would have to consider, I believe.

 

[MikeO]

If the Yankees can get Abreu or Burrell without giving up a Top 100 Prospect than why can't say a team like the Red Sox trade the Phils: Nixon, Clement and Lenny DiNardo or Abe Alarvez?

Call your management and tell them to do it! :shakeno:

They probably could have either player for one of those.

 

[RWhitney014]

a marginal player with a bad contract

Doesn't exactly sound like a good trade to me.

 

[MikeO]

Doesn't exactly sound like a good trade to me.

See, YOU can't take the stance that Proctor has no value and then say, well it wouldn't be a good trade. If the guy has no value, then anything NY got in return woudl be good. REMEMBER $$$$$$$$$$$ is never an issue. So, if they take on a bad contract and a marginal player who might add depth to a bench or be a platoon player in LF (not talking abreu or burell here in this example) or something for a guy like Proctor, then its a good move. I disagree with you on Proctor's value anyway, but not every trade is a blockbuster.

Put it this way, Proctor is better than Julio and Julio just brought back Orlando Hernendez. That is the type of trade you can use a Proctor in and expect that kind of value in return.

 

[Ray Finkle]

That's a poor example to illustrate your point. Everyone knows at this point that Jim Bowden is getting fired as soon as new ownership takes over, so he's asking for the moon in any trade.

Ok then change Hernandez's name for Zito. My point is is that GMs are going to ask for the best prospect involved. There's no way a guy like Abreu is going to be had without trading top prospects or a good major league player(s)(like in the Arod/Soriano swap).

Absolutely true. The point a lot of people here have been making (falsely), though, is that the Yankees would have to give up a serious haul for Abreu, and that's not true. The fact that their personnel may not be a fit for what the Phillies want doesn't change the fact that the Phillies will take 60 or 70 cents on the dollar in trade to get rid of Abreu. A hitter of Abreu's caliber, in theory, should command a bona fide #1 starter in trade. Well, they're not going to get that, and they know it. If they got, I don't know, a guy like John Lackey, they'd do it. A solid #2/#3 starter type who eats up a lot of innings, but isn't a star.

Obviously, the Yankees don't have a starter to spare on their current roster. But that doesn't change the fact that Abreu could be had for a lot less than people here seem to think. Maybe they get a third team involved, acquire a #2/#3 starter for Melky Cabrera and a good prospect, and then ship said starter to Philly.

I disagree. I think you'll have to give up at least a top prospect for Abreu or like a said a good MLB player. If the Yankees could get a #2 or #3 starter for Melky Cabrera and a good prospect why not just keep the pitcher? Their starting rotation has a few ? marks. And their line up even without Sheffield and Matsui is still good. Personally I think it's going to take a lot more for the Yankees to get Abreu, but that's just my opinion. Remember the Phillies will also need to replace Abreu in their line up too.

Nothing except for the fact that Clement is a train wreck, and a fairly expensive train wreck at that. DiNardo is an inexpensive train wreck. Those guys have zero trade value at this point. In fact, Clement has negative trade value. But before the season, I bet the Phillies would have taken Bronson Arroyo and a B level prospect for Abreu.

Abe Alvarez is a pretty good prospect, though. Nixon and Alvarez would be an offer the Phillies would have to consider, I believe.

I was honestly kidding with that deal, I think that if Boston called up the Phils and offered them that deal they'd hang up. Eventhough Nixon would be suitable replacement for Abreu (and I even hate Nixon) and Clement would probably be somewhat decent for them considering he's an NL pitcher and being out of the pressure in Boston might help him out.

Don't get me wrong I think that during the offseason Abreu might get traded for peanuts just to dump his contract but not during the year, especially when the Phillies are in the race. If they're 15 games out by July then that could change fast.

I think you'll see Soriano in the OF for the Yankees before Abreu and Burrell.

 

[Ray Finkle]

Call your management and tell them to do it! :shakeno:

They probably could have either player for one of those.

Then if that's true the Phillies should be shut down. Man that would be a terrible deal for the Phillies. You can't give them crap (Clement and DiNardo/Alvarez) and expect that to land a top 20 to 25 hitter no matter how much money he makes.

What's with the head shake no for? :confused:

 

[MikeO]

Then if that's true the Phillies should be shut down. Man that would be a terrible deal for the Phillies. You can't give them crap (Clement and DiNardo/Alvarez) and expect that to land a top 20 to 25 hitter no matter how much money he makes.

What's with the head shake no for? :confused:

Cause you come off sounding like the Yanks have the market cornered on making trades. Like there is some MLB rule that only allows the Yanks to make trades.

Philly doesn't like Abreu. Is it that hard to understand?! They don't want to pay him and they don't like his attitude. If they can unload his contract and get rid of a guy they don't like, they aren't going to demand a ton in return. IF the Yanks offer Duncan and Melky for Abreu, the Phillis might jump.

And MONEY is what rules baseball. Most teams care more about their payroll and making a profit than they do winning games. IF, and IF you believe otherwise, then you need to do some homework.

And Philly already has Abreu replaced with that Victoriano guy they are in LOVE with.

 

[MikeO]

Sheffield is flying back to NY. Something wrong with his wrist.

Expect a BIG trade within a week or two.

 

[Ray Finkle]

Cause you come off sounding like the Yanks have the market cornered on making trades. Like there is some MLB rule that only allows the Yanks to make trades.

Philly doesn't like Abreu. Is it that hard to understand?! They don't want to pay him and they don't like his attitude. If they can unload his contract and get rid of a guy they don't like, they aren't going to demand a ton in return. IF the Yanks offer Duncan and Melky for Abreu, the Phillis might jump.

And MONEY is what rules baseball. Most teams care more about their payroll and making a profit than they do winning games. IF, and IF you believe otherwise, then you need to do some homework.

And Philly already has Abreu replaced with that Victoriano guy they are in LOVE with.

How do I sound like the Yankees have the market cornered? All I'm saying is I think it's going to take more to get Abreu, especially during the season. What's wrong with that?

I know you post articles that they don't have to, but the articles you post say the Phils want a top line pitcher back. So again I ask how the Yankees will pull off a trade (even a 3 or 4 way deal) to land Abreu without giving up top prospects.

Sounds like someone has been listening to Mike and the Mad Dog this afternoon. I forgot about Victoriano, so you're right they do have a replacement for him. I thought that Dellucci was going to be the guy.

 

[Ray Finkle]

Sheffield is flying back to NY. Something wrong with his wrist.

Expect a BIG trade within a week or two.

I'd say Soriano will be in pinstripes soon then.

 

[MikeO]

How do I sound like the Yankees have the market cornered? All I'm saying is I think it's going to take more to get Abreu, especially during the season. What's wrong with that?

I know you post articles that they don't have to, but the articles you post say the Phils want a top line pitcher back. So again I ask how the Yankees will pull off a trade (even a 3 or 4 way deal) to land Abreu without giving up top prospects.

Sounds like someone has been listening to Mike and the Mad Dog this afternoon. I forgot about Victoriano, so you're right they do have a replacement for him. I thought that Dellucci was going to be the guy.

mike and the mad dogg? VICTORINO has been playing almost EVERY DAY For them now since May 1st. I don't even know what your talking about. you are all over the place.

What you want Philly to say, they want nothing in return for Abreu? So other teams come in with really crappy offers??? YOUR CLEARLY NO BUSINESS MAJOR!!!!! Of course Phill will say they want the world and a lot. You always open up negotions asking for the world and work your way down. :shakeno: :shakeno:

And how a 3 way deal would work is. Oh, I don't know. Zito to Philly, Abreu to NY, and like Duncan, Melky, and a philly prospect or two to Oakland. YOu couldn't see that working? :shakeno:

 

[Ray Finkle]

mike and the mad dogg? VICTORINO has been playing almost EVERY DAY For them now since May 1st. I don't even know what your talking about. you are all over the place.

What you want Philly to say, they want nothing in return for Abreu? So other teams come in with really crappy offers??? YOUR CLEARLY NO BUSINESS MAJOR!!!!! Of course Phill will say they want the world and a lot. You always open up negotions asking for the world and work your way down. :shakeno: :shakeno:

And how a 3 way deal would work is. Oh, I don't know. Zito to Philly, Abreu to NY, and like Duncan, Melky, and a philly prospect or two to Oakland. YOu couldn't see that working? :shakeno:

Sorry I just figured you were listening to Mike and the Mad Dog because you wrote an exact quote of what Mike said about Victorino.

You're not listening to me on this so I'm just going to quit argueing with you on this. I'm going to sit back and wait and see if this happens and who goes etc.

And yes I'm sure Billy Beane would jump on that trade. :shakeno:

My question is if the Yankees could get a #2 pitcher (like Zito somehow)would they be better off keeping him instead of trying to trade him for Abreu?

 

[MikeO]

My question is if the Yankees could get a #2 pitcher (like Zito somehow)would they be better off keeping him instead of trying to trade him for Abreu?

YES, The yanks would take Zito over any hitter. But Oakland won't trade him within the AL and especially to NY. SO, that is a pipe dream.

If Sheff is injured, they are gonna make a move for a hitter first and foremost. Long/Bubba/Melky/Bernie just can't cut it.

 

[RWhitney014]

See, YOU can't take the stance that Proctor has no value and then say, well it wouldn't be a good trade. If the guy has no value, then anything NY got in return woudl be good. REMEMBER $$$$$$$$$$$ is never an issue. So, if they take on a bad contract and a marginal player who might add depth to a bench or be a platoon player in LF (not talking abreu or burell here in this example) or something for a guy like Proctor, then its a good move. I disagree with you on Proctor's value anyway, but not every trade is a blockbuster.

Put it this way, Proctor is better than Julio and Julio just brought back Orlando Hernendez. That is the type of trade you can use a Proctor in and expect that kind of value in return.

Come on, Mike, be civil. No need for semantics. Not being a good trade = no value on the trade market. I think Julio has accomplished more in his career than Proctor has; who's better is irrelevant because neither is particularly good.

To me, the best you're acquiring straight up for a guy like Proctor is a Terrence Long-type player, a guy that can be picked up just as easily for free off the waiver wire. That's not value.

I still think pitching help, especially in the rotation, is more pressing than offensive help. Yanks still lead the league in runs scored despite missing both Matsui and Sheff for extended periods.

(In which case, trading Proctor for a platoon LF would be a bad idea, since Proctor is at least somewhat young and can eat some innings.)