Zach Overrated: People starting to take notice.

[GRYPHONK]

You said it better than I could. Not to take anything away from the guy, but he's a liability when he's not protected and free to roam and make tackles just due to his size deficiency.

That's just it, I am not trying to knock the guy. He is simply doing what he is supposed to do. Which is tackle.

During JJ'S and Wanny's tenure he didn't have to make impact plays. 15 tackles past the line of scrimmage is acceptable.

To put my point in perspective

Tackles for a loss, Pass deflected

2004
Thomas- 7/4 o forced fumbles 2 sacks 0 INT'S
Morgan-1.5/6 1 FORCED FUMBLE 2INT'S
Brooking-2/6 2.5 SACKS 2 forced fumbles, 3 INT'S
Spikes- 6.5/17 with 4 forced fumbles
Brushci-4/6 2 foced fumles 3.5 sacks 3 ints
Darling- 6.5/6 2 forced fumbles 1INT
uRLACHER- 5.5/7 2 FORCED FUMBLES 1 INT
Nguyen- 1.5/5 1 forced fumble 3 INT
DJ Williams- 10/7 1 FF 1 INT

I will just stop right there.

You see when it comes to tackling yes there probably isn't a better LB'ER in the game. BUt when you want someone who is gonna disrupt plays, cause game changing plays ie. INT OR FF then I JUST named some elites and some average LB'ERS in the game who all make more game changing plays.

That's just what Zack is. He isn't a game changer. He is simply a guy who just tackles and makes no true impact on the outcome of the game.

Some of you can continue to be eamoured with all his tackles. But I will continue watching guys like Brooking and Bruschi and Spikes who make the crucial 3rd down plays and who are still making tackles in the 4th or making a game saving sack or forcing a fumble.

I will say this, looking at those stats Thomas did make the most tackles for a loss so I will give him that. BUt I would be willing to bet all of them were on 2nd or 1st down =O)

 

[Dol-Fan Dupree]

That's just what Zack is. He isn't a game changer. He is simply a guy who just tackles and makes no true impact on the outcome of the game.

Some of you can continue to be eamoured with all his tackles. But I will continue watching guys like Brooking and Bruschi and Spikes who make the crucial 3rd down plays and who are still making tackles in the 4th or making a game saving sack or forcing a fumble.

I will say this, looking at those stats Thomas did make the most tackles for a loss so I will give him that. BUt I would be willing to bet all of them were on 2nd or 1st down =O)

ha ha ha ha ha ha, come on, making tackles isn't game changing?

Plus Zach Thomas has made third down stops. that is also game changing.

When he is in the dolphins defense is better.

 

[enigmatics]

ha ha ha ha ha ha, come on, making tackles isn't game changing?

Plus Zach Thomas has made third down stops. that is also game changing.

When he is in the dolphins defense is better.

Without trying to sound like GI Joe, making tackles is half the battle. There comes a point when you need to force turnovers. Unfortunately Zach hasn't done that to this point in his career. We've all seen it. Those moments in important games where we need something big to happen or we're down and need the ball back. Zach simply doesn't make those types of plays.

 

[Dol-Fan Dupree]

Without trying to sound like GI Joe, making tackles is half the battle. There comes a point when you need to force turnovers. Unfortunately Zach hasn't done that to this point in his career. We've all seen it. Those moments in important games where we need something big to happen or we're down and need the ball back. Zach simply doesn't make those types of plays.

Zach has made important stops.

I have come to the conclusion that people just don't understand football.

3rd and short stops are big plays. He makes those. Heck, 3rd and 5 stops are big plays as well, he makes those. 3 and outs are big plays, he is a big part of those. Just because the big plays aren't stat friendly or fan pretty (sacks and interceptions) does not make them small.

 

[HybridPHIN 23]

It's all about consistency...... Zach has been a stud from day one. Not many can say the same.

 

[GRYPHONK]

Zach has made important stops.

I have come to the conclusion that people just don't understand football.

3rd and short stops are big plays. He makes those. Heck, 3rd and 5 stops are big plays as well, he makes those. 3 and outs are big plays, he is a big part of those. Just because the big plays aren't stat friendly or fan pretty (sacks and interceptions) does not make them small.

LOL

That is the biggest part of my complaint. HE ISNT THERE ON 3RD DOWN PLAYS.

Notr is he there in the 4th.

You know who makes more 3rd down stops? Greenwood, Taylor, Bowens, Heck even Surtain makes more 3rd down stops on running plays.

Zack simply doesn't do that.

I will take Tedy Bruschi, Ray Lewis, Brian Urlacher, Takeo Spikes, Keith Brooking heck even Derrick Brooks over Zack Thomas anyday.

That's not bad for Thomas. He is still a top 10 LB'ER. Arguably top 6.

I am just not a blind homer who thinks just because he tackled the RB 7 yards past the line of scrimmage that he is making a great play especially when he gets dragged for 3 of those yards.

Where was he in the 4th quarter against NE in 2002? That's right he was too busy to busy letting NE come back from 11 points down with less then 5 mins to play. Where was he on 4th and 1 against Minny in 2002? That's right he started the tackle of Culpepper 2 yards behind the line of scrimmage only to let Culpepper get 3 more yards and a 1st down. By the way that stop would have sealed the game. They go on to score and win the game. Oh yeah, both of those games if we won just won we make the Playoffs. Where is he in the Baltimore playoff game? Oh yeah he is busy letting Terry Allen at the ageof 72 rack up almost 200 yards rushing. Where is he against Philly in 2003? Oh thats right he is letting Westbrook juke him again for another 20 yard TD and 1st down. Where was he in the 4th quarter against INDY in 2003. Oh yeah on 3rd and 1 he meets James behind the line of scrimmage only to get bulldozed and lets James pick up 7+ more yards. By the way they score a TD on that drive and we lose by 6.

Ecery single one of those games were crucial games or moments in the game. I don't care how bad the rest of the team played, he should have made those plays.

He is non existant in crucial moments and in the 4th. Which is why i will take Bruschi, Lewis, Brooking, Spikes and even Derrick Brooks over him anyday.

 

[enigmatics]

Zach has made important stops.

I have come to the conclusion that people just don't understand football.

3rd and short stops are big plays. He makes those. Heck, 3rd and 5 stops are big plays as well, he makes those. 3 and outs are big plays, he is a big part of those. Just because the big plays aren't stat friendly or fan pretty (sacks and interceptions) does not make them small.

Not denying those plays at all, but again that's why I stated that it's only "half the battle" when it comes to the important plays middle linebackers need to make.

The ironic part though of what you speak about, is in important games (as pointed out previously about the Minnesota game at the end of the year a few seasons ago) Zach and Co. have not made those game saving or game changing stops. I mean seriously, most Dolphin fans have been disgruntled with just that fact for a long time now, not coming thru in important games. Hell look at the way our safeties have been shuffled in and out over the past 6 years. We can never find guys to cause turnovers and we know how important they are. We thought we got one in Sammy Knight, but he never panned out.

Now Teddi Bruschi is a guy I like to bring up. Now he's not enjoyed as many great seasons as Zach has........but you cannot deny that man is in his prime and simply changes games with his ability to cause turnovers. Zach's a little bit better of a tackler, but Bruschi's ten times better at getting the ball back for his offense whether it be from an int or a fumble........ we've never really seen that out of Zach.

I'm not taking anything away from Zach Thomas........ and I think guys like Prisco would be better served explaining who's overrating Zach in order to defend his argument (although I'm pretty sure he's pointing the finger at Dolphin fans)....... but Zach's a product of the scheme Jimmy and Wanny built around him. An overachieving, tackling machine with alot of heart.

 

[PassRush]

All these theorys on Zach being overated are highly overated.

 

[SWS84]

Without trying to sound like GI Joe, making tackles is half the battle. There comes a point when you need to force turnovers. Unfortunately Zach hasn't done that to this point in his career. We've all seen it. Those moments in important games where we need something big to happen or we're down and need the ball back. Zach simply doesn't make those types of plays.

Come on, that is just silly. The #1 thing a MLB needs to do is make the tackle, if he can strip the ball, great. How many times have you seen other guys try and strip the ball first, miss the tackle, and the RB rumble on to a big gain? I would rather have the sure tackler.

Steve

 

[inFINSible]

Not denying those plays at all, but again that's why I stated that it's only "half the battle" when it comes to the important plays middle linebackers need to make.

The ironic part though of what you speak about, is in important games (as pointed out previously about the Minnesota game at the end of the year a few seasons ago) Zach and Co. have not made those game saving or game changing stops. I mean seriously, most Dolphin fans have been disgruntled with just that fact for a long time now, not coming thru in important games. Hell look at the way our safeties have been shuffled in and out over the past 6 years. We can never find guys to cause turnovers and we know how important they are. We thought we got one in Sammy Knight, but he never panned out.

Now Teddi Bruschi is a guy I like to bring up. Now he's not enjoyed as many great seasons as Zach has........but you cannot deny that man is in his prime and simply changes games with his ability to cause turnovers. Zach's a little bit better of a tackler, but Bruschi's ten times better at getting the ball back for his offense whether it be from an int or a fumble........ we've never really seen that out of Zach.

They both came into the league the same year...

Bruschi has exactly 2 more TOs than Zach......2.

 

[gravyfries]

They both came into the league the same year...

Bruschi has exactly 2 more TOs than Zach......2.

good point, and true. plus, he has never had a sidekick as good as vrabel...

 

[ch19079]

Hey, if ZT can rack up 145 tackles (more than any Bill) and be 4th in the league in tackles while being "overrated," that's fine with me.

Zach overachieves given his size/athleticism. As said above, he is a student of the game with the best instincts of any MLB. Look at what Ray Lewis is working with physically... interesting they were only a few tackles apart.

"Ratings" speak of public opinion. I'll take statistics.

i never said i wouldnt want him on my team. i know SEVERAL teams what would love to have him. but my point was to explain that he can be overrated and still very good.

 

[Waldop]

How ridiculous is this thread!! Hey, everyone is entitled to their opinions, but let's get real!! As someone so aptly stated, one doesn't get chosen for the Pro Bowl because they're overrated. Yes, Zack is getting up there, but to this day, he does play with his heart and soul. He wouldn't be as injured as he usually is if he hadn't.

 

[AquaAssasin]

http://cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/story/8622837



Zach is on his way out, he's good but not great. In Zach's tenure here the Dolphins never drafted any one at the position with any legit talent; the players barely could stay on Special Teams. I commend Saban for actually bringing in some competition. When Morlon was drafted out of 'Cuse, he played MLB, before he even hit the Miami Beaches he was permanently moved to OLB. This lends to the idea that Miami’s leadership was always cool with the statue quo, 10 wins, 1 playoff win and a playoff lose, push mediocre players into superstar/playmaker roles that anyone could fill. Jimmy and Dave dogged W.H. (a good man) and left this team high and dry.

over a 100+ tackles every year, teams still plan around him by taking him out of the game...YEAH I CALL THAT OVERRATED....

 

[miamirick]

Agreed, Zach has been a very good LB in the 4-3 that the Dolphins have been playing. With that said, can Zach play in the 3-4?? I really don't think so. I can see Zach being moved if coach Saban wants to play a 3-4, but for now, he's the best LB that we've got.
JJ and Dave were not happy with 10 wins and such, whoever says that is nuts. Both are very good coaches and it just didn't work out for them here.

Using the words Dave and very good coach in the same paragraph is a sin. Dave is everything but a good coach...a good guy? sure...but he was/is a lousy head coach. His track record proves he doesn't belong on an NFL sideline as the guy in charge.

As far as Zach is concerned...plain and simple...he is still a very good LB...but I don't think he is suited for a 3-4 as he needs space to play and O-linemen off of him.