Zach Thomas Ranked #6 MLB

[Nicky Napoleon]

No, I didn't blame Zach, I was asking how Zach could have been just as effective if the run D was so bad.

Because this is a team sport. One player can continue to play at a high level but if everyone around him is hurt or new, the stats wont tell the story.

 

[Ed (Bills)]

i think it was a combination of many things, not least that the d was on the field nearly all the time. i am almost sure that if the the O does its job then the D will perform better and we will do better overall--how do those stats rate against the passing stats- cause with surtain and madison back there noone wanted to pass on them either.

The passing stats are a lot better, but they generally are for teams that struggle to stop the run. If running the ball is effective it allows you to eat up the clock and play conservetively.

 

[Ed (Bills)]

Because this is a team sport. One player can continue to play at a high level but if everyone around him is hurt or new, the stats wont tell the story.

so he wasn't as effective then.

 

[CrunchTime]

I dont know what games you were watching but there is no doubt Zach was having an outstanding season until he got injured.He was on his way to MVP and he was one of the few bright spots And thats without Bowens and Chester playing.After that JT was the outstanding player.

 

[Ohio Fanatic]

The biggest name that is in the hall STRICTLY because he won a super bowl is Joe Namath. The fact that he called the victory in Super Bowl III is the main reason he is in the hall.

That's not entirely true, for his era, Joe Namath was a very good QB.

 

[Just Win Baby]

That's not entirely true, for his era, Joe Namath was a very good QB.

wrong. He didn't beat a single team with a winning record after that superbowl, and he finished his career with more int's than TD's.

 

[cnc66]

The biggest name that is in the hall STRICTLY because he won a super bowl is Joe Namath. The fact that he called the victory in Super Bowl III is the main reason he is in the hall.[/QUOTE]


and he has nice legs

 

[Awsi Dooger]

That's not entirely true, for his era, Joe Namath was a very good QB.

Thank you for some clarity among this pathetic attempt to downplay Joe Namath, primarily (if not exclusively) by posters who aren't old enough to remember his prime.

Namath was an excellent QB, at times downright frightening to defend. He is deserving of Canton enshrinement without question. And that doesn't even begin to consider how much better Namath could have been with good health. He was an Elway-type athlete at Alabama before injurying his knee for the first time, scampering all over the place with terrific agility.

Somehow the INT stat has popped up to define Namath. It's true he was uncharacteristically poor in that regard, especially late in his career when he hobbled thru at least two seasons after he should have been retired.

It's equally true that yards per attempt is a more telling stat than interceptions. Again, just because the mainstream media ignorantly never mentions that stat in favor of garbage like the overall QB rating doesn't mean they know what they're doing. In YPPA Namath was terrific, especially in his prime. He averaged 8.28 yards per attempt during the '68 Super Bowl season, after 8.16 a year earlier. Those numbers are phenomenal. For his career he averaged an excellent 7.35 YPPA, but that is somewhat misleading due to all the injury seasons when he tried to play hurt. If you look at only the seasons in which he was healthy enough to play 12 or more games, Namath averaged 7.60 YPPA.

He made the Pro Bowl 5 times in his career including 4 times in his first 5 years. A year later he gut hurt again and only played 5 games in 1970 and 4 games in 1971. His final years Namath was horrid. In my notes based on research a few years ago I wrote he averaged 4.7 YPPA in '76 and 5.7 YPPA in '77. Those are hard to believe, in the Feeley range, but I can't find my online source to verify. Perhaps some of the "younger" (35ish) posters here remember Namath from those final seasons and think they were representative of his ability in general.

 

[WCUgodsmacked13]

i think that Ray Lewis is overrated that he is that much better than these other guys. He is not on the same caliber as he was 3yrs ago, he is always trying to make a big hit and not playing the heads up football he used too.

 

[Nicky Napoleon]

Thank you for some clarity among this pathetic attempt to downplay Joe Namath, primarily (if not exclusively) by posters who aren't old enough to remember his prime.

Namath was an excellent QB, at times downright frightening to defend. He is deserving of Canton enshrinement without question. And that doesn't even begin to consider how much better Namath could have been with good health. He was an Elway-type athlete at Alabama before injurying his knee for the first time, scampering all over the place with terrific agility.

Somehow the INT stat has popped up to define Namath. It's true he was uncharacteristically poor in that regard, especially late in his career when he hobbled thru at least two seasons after he should have been retired.

It's equally true that yards per attempt is a more telling stat than interceptions. Again, just because the mainstream media ignorantly never mentions that stat in favor of garbage like the overall QB rating doesn't mean they know what they're doing. In YPPA Namath was terrific, especially in his prime. He averaged 8.28 yards per attempt during the '68 Super Bowl season, after 8.16 a year earlier. Those numbers are phenomenal. For his career he averaged an excellent 7.35 YPPA, but that is somewhat misleading due to all the injury seasons when he tried to play hurt. If you look at only the seasons in which he was healthy enough to play 12 or more games, Namath averaged 7.60 YPPA.

He made the Pro Bowl 5 times in his career including 4 times in his first 5 years. A year later he gut hurt again and only played 5 games in 1970 and 4 games in 1971. His final years Namath was horrid. In my notes based on research a few years ago I wrote he averaged 4.7 YPPA in '76 and 5.7 YPPA in '77. Those are hard to believe, in the Feeley range, but I can't find my online source to verify. Perhaps some of the "younger" (35ish) posters here remember Namath from those final seasons and think they were representative of his ability in general.

Just to throw out a few numbers for you Joe Namath's career completion percentage is 50.1%, he never had a season where he completed more than 52.9%. He only threw more TD's than INT's TWICE in his career, and amassed 47 more INT's than TD's for his career. He only passed for 4000 yards once, and 3000 yards on two other occasions. His career average for yards per season.... a paltry 2,128. To put those numbers into perspective former Jets QB Vinny Testeverde, has 5 seasons with more than 3,000 yards and one more with 4,000. He has 7 seasons where he threw more TD's than INT's, and has more TD's than INT's for his career. Vinny's career completion percentage is 56.6 and only failed to complete more than 50% his first two years.


That being said Namath was a good player, but I dont think that his career numbers are near worthy of his HoF status.

Just for some added reading here is a link where a writer at ESPN calls him the most overated player of all time.Namath No. 1

 

[GrnMtnMan]

i think that Ray Lewis is overrated that he is that much better than these other guys. He is not on the same caliber as he was 3yrs ago, he is always trying to make a big hit and not playing the heads up football he used too.

That and Terrell Owens makes fun of him.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

Just to throw out a few numbers for you Joe Namath's career completion percentage is 50.1%, he never had a season where he completed more than 52.9%. He only threw more TD's than INT's TWICE in his career, and amassed 47 more INT's than TD's for his career. He only passed for 4000 yards once, and 3000 yards on two other occasions. His career average for yards per season.... a paltry 2,128. To put those numbers into perspective former Jets QB Vinny Testeverde, has 5 seasons with more than 3,000 yards and one more with 4,000. He has 7 seasons where he threw more TD's than INT's, and has more TD's than INT's for his career. Vinny's career completion percentage is 56.6 and only failed to complete more than 50% his first two years.


That being said Namath was a good player, but I dont think that his career numbers are near worthy of his HoF status.

Just for some added reading here is a link where a writer at ESPN calls him the most overated player of all time.Namath No. 1

You overlooked something very obvious and significant based on those numbers: Namath's remarkable ability to make the big play. Huge downfield passing plays are vital to NFL success and always will be. If Namath only completed 50% of his passes and threw a significant number of interceptions, then how did he manage 7.35 yards per attempt for his career? It almost doesn't compute but it's true. I just looked up Testaverde. For his career he's 6.93 yards per attempt, even at 6.5% greater completion percentage than Namath. So while Testaverde is completing insignificant dinky passes on a regular basis, Namath is misfiring then killing you with the big play. Not much of a choice.

 

[Nicky Napoleon]

You overlooked something very obvious and significant based on those numbers: Namath's remarkable ability to make the big play. Huge downfield passing plays are vital to NFL success and always will be. If Namath only completed 50% of his passes and threw a significant number of interceptions, then how did he manage 7.35 yards per attempt for his career? It almost doesn't compute but it's true. I just looked up Testaverde. For his career he's 6.93 yards per attempt, even at 6.5% greater completion percentage than Namath. So while Testaverde is completing insignificant dinky passes on a regular basis, Namath is misfiring then killing you with the big play. Not much of a choice.

Ok, so .42 ypa is the difference in a HoF QB, and just a good QB. Vinny is not a HoF QB, although statistically he is a superior QB to Namath. Namath is better in one category then Vinny, I didnt even compare him to a great QB. I am going to bed but will get to work on that tomorrow.

 

[Boik14]

Id simply switch Morgan and Farrior in those ratings. Farrior for years was mediocore with the jets which tells you hes merely a product of the system.

This year ZT will have to prove his career has not been a product of the system.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

Ok, so .42 ypa is the difference in a HoF QB, and just a good QB. Vinny is not a HoF QB, although statistically he is a superior QB to Namath. Namath is better in one category then Vinny, I didnt even compare him to a great QB. I am going to bed but will get to work on that tomorrow.

I know it sounds weird but .42 is extremely significant in that vital stat. Just like .42 or anything close to that is huge when you're talking about yards per carry for a RB. A first down here and there is the difference between keeping a TD drive alive or a punt. I'm a YPPA guy and have been for decades. I'm not just conveniently using that stat in this thread to defend Namath. I've posted the significance of yards per attempt and number of rushing attempts (not rushing yards) repeatedly. I'm not saying they are absolutes but the tendency to win games when you win those stats is massive.

I think Namath's career should be evaluated in terms of '65-'69 and '70-'77. The first 5 years he was healthy and a star player, as evidenced by the two seasons above 8 yards per attempt and 4 Pro Bowls along with the Super Bowl win. After that he had numerous knee and arm injuries which kept him off the field and left him a shell of his former self when he played, with rare exceptions like one shootout with Unitas and the game vs. us in '72.