A General Observation On Drafting Players And Paying Them | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

A General Observation On Drafting Players And Paying Them

Atila said:
There is no hard fast rule to this stuff. It’s not even about the position, it’s about the teams current situation in this moment.

If we had the cap space, the team and fans would all be clamoring to keep him. But Miami simply has too many needs and is already invested at DT with Sieler on a really great deal.

Did you forget the part that Miami needs to spend $30-40mil on IOL starters and depth? We have bigger fish to fry (pun).
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That's the facts, Jack!
 
Highzenga said:
With that logic only qb, LT, edge & cb would be picked in the 1st round. Those are the premium positions. In recent years you can add wr as they are making big money. Interestingly, Dt’s have been getting paid a lot the past few years which is why Wilkins is so expensive. The problem is as good as he is, he’s not worth $24 million a year. Yes his sacks went up but his tackles went down. He doesn’t make the kind of impact to justify that salary imo.

I get your point and don’t necessarily disagree but when you are in a rebuild, you have a 4-5 year window. We traded for some big money players to try to win a Super Bowl in that window. Just look at all the high round picks we had and all the big money vets. There has to be some sacrifices
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And since 2020 Chris Grier would agree with you.

2020 - Tua
2020 - AJ
2020 - Noah Igbo
2021 - Waddle
2021 - Phillips
2022 - Tyreek
2023 - Chubb

That's why we should expect the 21st this year to be a tackle that can play guard for a year, a WR, an edge rusher or a CB.
 
I was against drafting Wilkins, because everyone knew Miami would be drafting a QB in 2020 (the next year), and Miami offense was multiple players away from being good enough to support a rookie QB.

I've said it multiple times over the last 5+ years, but defense doesn't matter until it does; that is, defense doesn't matter until your offense is good enough to compete.

KC is a great example. Mahomes walked into the best offensive infrastructure maybe ever, and they didn't prioritize defense until he was established and they had a firm grasp of his strengths and weaknesses (few as they are).

I would have still liked to keep Wilkins, but 25m is a lot for a guy who isn't a superstar. If someone else wants to pay him, god bless.
 
j-off-her-doll said:
I was against drafting Wilkins, because everyone knew Miami would be drafting a QB in 2020 (the next year), and Miami offense was multiple players away from being good enough to support a rookie QB.

I've said it multiple times over the last 5+ years, but defense doesn't matter until it does; that is, defense doesn't matter until your offense is good enough to compete.

KC is a great example. Mahomes walked into the best offensive infrastructure maybe ever, and they didn't prioritize defense until he was established and they had a firm grasp of his strengths and weaknesses (few as they are).

I would have still liked to keep Wilkins, but 25m is a lot for a guy who isn't a superstar. If someone else wants to pay him, god bless.
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Good summary on this.....
 
djphinfan said:
I don’t agree with this philosophy, you’re advocating or settling for one dimensional players.

That’s one of the pros for Wilkins team to get a higher salary, rep count, 3 down player, he does not come off the field so he takes the place of a whole other player.

So the leverage is pay him what that other player would get paid to do his specific role
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We will never agree on this. The only way I pay Wilkins any money is if he is a generational player and it fits the scheme I want to run.

Plus go look at his stats. He has one sack against a decent Oline. The rest came from garbage Olines.

www.espn.com

Christian Wilkins 2023 Stats per Game - NFL - ESPN

The 2023 NFL season stats per game for Christian Wilkins of the Miami Dolphins on ESPN. Includes full stats, per opponent, for regular and postseason.
www.espn.com www.espn.com
 
j-off-her-doll said:
I was against drafting Wilkins, because everyone knew Miami would be drafting a QB in 2020 (the next year), and Miami offense was multiple players away from being good enough to support a rookie QB.

I've said it multiple times over the last 5+ years, but defense doesn't matter until it does; that is, defense doesn't matter until your offense is good enough to compete.

KC is a great example. Mahomes walked into the best offensive infrastructure maybe ever, and they didn't prioritize defense until he was established and they had a firm grasp of his strengths and weaknesses (few as they are).

I would have still liked to keep Wilkins, but 25m is a lot for a guy who isn't a superstar. If someone else wants to pay him, god bless.
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Agree with this. But I still wouldn’t have drafted a DT that high. And 25 mil is definitely way too much for a non generational player at that position.
 
Bottom line is all of these posts and threads point to one thing - we have a clown running the show at GM in Grier. That may sound a bit harsh but think back a few years ago when we’re sitting with multiple first round picks in two straight draft and look what we ended up with. We also had a huge amount of camp space to go grab free agents, yet he still gives up multiple picks for Tyreek and Chubb, and we still can’t win a playoff game. He will probably blame the players or injuries, but the bottom line still remains the same. If you look at the players, we could’ve drafted as well as signed in free agency our team would be much more successful. he missed on taking cd lamb, as well as Jefferson at wide receiver, and if he had made just one of those moves we would not have had to give up two first round, picks to take Waddle. We could have had a combo of Chase, Sewell, Micah… plus he trades up for Eichenberg when he could have had Creed Humphrey.

I am beginning to think the reason he stockpiles draft picks is that he knows he cannot select the right player based on evaluations so he figures the more shots he gets the better the chance he might hit one.. As it stands right now we still need to pick up multiple offensive lineman despite picking several the last couple years, and we still need defensive backs, despite trading for, and drafting them in the early rounds. I think that is proof enough where the problem lies with our team.
 
j-off-her-doll said:
I was against drafting Wilkins, because everyone knew Miami would be drafting a QB in 2020 (the next year), and Miami offense was multiple players away from being good enough to support a rookie QB.

I've said it multiple times over the last 5+ years, but defense doesn't matter until it does; that is, defense doesn't matter until your offense is good enough to compete.

KC is a great example. Mahomes walked into the best offensive infrastructure maybe ever, and they didn't prioritize defense until he was established and they had a firm grasp of his strengths and weaknesses (few as they are).

I would have still liked to keep Wilkins, but 25m is a lot for a guy who isn't a superstar. If someone else wants to pay him, god bless.
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Well said and I think that’s where we find ourselves now. Strengthening the OL and finding another playmaker to build around our core skill talent needs to be priority one. The D we will just have to get to when we can. If not traded this year we should have 10 or so picks in 2025 with 8 of those in the top 5 rounds vs this year and recent years where most of our few picks were late rounders. Get this offense to elite and go from there.
 
KentuckyFin said:
Bottom line is all of these posts and threads point to one thing - we have a clown running the show at GM in Grier. That may sound a bit harsh but think back a few years ago when we’re sitting with multiple first round picks in two straight draft and look what we ended up with. We also had a huge amount of camp space to go grab free agents, yet he still gives up multiple picks for Tyreek and Chubb, and we still can’t win a playoff game. He will probably blame the players or injuries, but the bottom line still remains the same. If you look at the players, we could’ve drafted as well as signed in free agency our team would be much more successful. he missed on taking cd lamb, as well as Jefferson at wide receiver, and if he had made just one of those moves we would not have had to give up two first round, picks to take Waddle. We could have had a combo of Chase, Sewell, Micah… plus he trades up for Eichenberg when he could have had Creed Humphrey.

I am beginning to think the reason he stockpiles draft picks is that he knows he cannot select the right player based on evaluations so he figures the more shots he gets the better the chance he might hit one.. As it stands right now we still need to pick up multiple offensive lineman despite picking several the last couple years, and we still need defensive backs, despite trading for, and drafting them in the early rounds. I think that is proof enough where the problem lies with our team.
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Those multiple 1st round picks in 2 straight drafts he hit on 4 of the 5 of them? Tua, AJ, Waddle and Phillips. You can criticize him for many things but not his first round picks since 2018 and you especially can't use hindsight and say "look at what we should have drafted now that we know they are good."

Minkah, Wilkins, Tua, AJ, Noah Igbo, Waddle, Phillips, Tyreek and Chubb. That's actually stellar use of 1st round picks imho. Even going back to 2016 when he became GM he drafted Tunsil in 2016 and Harris in 2017, that's only 2 whiffs 12 1st round picks, that is very, very good. It's his mid round picks onwards that have not been good.

Everyone tries to stockpile picks because it's a complete crap shoot, the more attempts you have the better the odds you hit on something.
 
Springveldt said:
And since 2020 Chris Grier would agree with you.

2020 - Tua
2020 - AJ
2020 - Noah Igbo
2021 - Waddle
2021 - Phillips
2022 - Tyreek
2023 - Chubb

That's why we should expect the 21st this year to be a tackle that can play guard for a year, a WR, an edge rusher or a CB.
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That seems to be the plan
 
phinsforlife said:
Many people will say, fine to let Wilkins walk, no way I am paying a defensive tackle that kind of money. There is almost nobody who is saying Wilkins isn't good or a top of the market DT, they are just saying the position is not worth the money.

Fine. Reasonable argument.

BUT then why ever use a first round pick on a position where the positional importance is not high enough such that you won't want to pay the player, who in Wilkins case has actually exceeded the expectations for where he was drafted? Seems kind of dumb, right? If this is the issue, a defensive tackle should never, ever, ever be taken in the first round.

I would say the same thing about running backs.

Never use a high pick on a position if you won't want to pay for the position when the rookie deal is up. If the position isn't worth that much, the position is one that a first round pick should NEVER be spent on.

If you disagree with my point, please tell me why we are letting Wilkins go? If Wilkins was a QB, and he performed at this level, would they be letting him walk over ~$20mm a year? If you say defensive tackles, like RBs are a dime a dozen and can be found easily on the open market, then why use a 1st round pick on them? Therefore you end up back in the same place, a positional value argument.

Which leads me to the next point, we are rumored to be using our first round pick this year on a Center or a Guard, which also give or take falls into the same bucket of positional value as DT or RB. Same mistake?

Of course, Wilkins was the first player taken as part of this whole rebuild. This whole situation, just soooo Dolphins. Wilkins is the first 1st rounder we got right in ages, and out the door he goes, because they don't want to pay for the position they drafted the player to play. Unreal!!!
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I agree. Seems like a wasted pick .we are not reaping the beninfits if we only keep him during his development stage and once he peaks to let another team reap the beninfit. But the team has to draft someone in the first round? Are you suggesting a qb every year because thats the only position thats more likely than not to be extended
 
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