SkapePhin
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Rudolph will be missing some time with an injury... will miss senior day, etc. he could slip into mid rounds. I’d rather take Rudolph there than Mayfield at 11.
Baker wants to be a dolphin
- Thread starter little biggen
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Rudolph will be missing some time with an injury... will miss senior day, etc. he could slip into mid rounds. I’d rather take Rudolph there than Mayfield at 11.
You know the members rarely miss anything...
TheJetsBlow
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Oh I know, I guess I just have to scroll
more next time lol.
I don't think this is the last time.
When Miami said that they will take a QB at #11 if he's the top player on its board; they are practically telling us that they won't be drafting a QB at 11. There's no way a QB is the best graded player available at #11. Teams "reach" for QBs because of the obvious reasons. But they are never the best player available. Even Rosen if he goes 1 won't be the best player available. He will go 1 because a team is desperate for a QB. When Miami picked Tannehill at 8 he was certainly not the best player available. But he was the best QB and Miami needed a QB.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
I watched people put the cart before the horse with Russell Wilson (and did the same myself, citing "risk management" best practices) and I think we're in danger of doing so again on Baker Mayfield, if we're talking about how his hands are a fraction too small, or 6'0" means he'd have to be an "outlier", or 4.70 means he's suddenly not good at scrambling.
The player is as the player does.
The hand size matters because bigger hands helps you control the football and achieve consistency in your throwing. Does he have control over the football and consistency in his throwing? Yeah, better than pretty much anyone else in the draft. Then he's got big hands, regardless of what someone reads off a ruler.
The height matters because being taller generally allows you to see the field better. If you're tall enough, you have an easier time dropping the football into a certain area over the shallow middle. But you can see the field without being tall, and you can be essentially blind to what's going on out on the field even if you are tall. You can be awful at dropping the ball into the shallow middle if you're tall, and you can be really excellent at it if you're short because your size necessitated you become an expert at sliding your feet and making proper use of passing lanes.
And I don't need a forty time to look at Baker Mayfield play football and accuse him of being a damned Houdini that makes people miss constantly and creates outside of structure.
People looooove to talk about statistics in football. Use fancy terms. Talk about outliers and trends and how no player who has won the Super Bowl was this, or that, etc. I find almost not a damn one of them has any clue what the hell they're talking about with respect to statistics. And the quants that do have a true understanding of predictive statistics, trend following, technical analysis, etc...they generally don't know enough about football to recognize the challenges of mapping those techniques over.
Every single quarterback that has ever mattered at the NFL level is a statistical outlier. Every single one is in the words of Pat Riley, a "lightning bolt from God". There is no statistical trend. It doesn't exist. There are so few of them, playing in conditions that are so constantly changing, that it's laughable that people even try and decide what an "outlier" is on a certain predictive factor with a QB.
There are no shortcuts. There's no easy way out of this. There's no magic statistical bullet that's going to nail it for you. You have to roll up your sleeves and evaluate the player, because no formula is ever going to do it for you. There are no disqualifying factors (or at least, there are few). If you have a bunch of luck disqualifying QBs based on a factor it's probably because quite frankly you could disqualify QBs based on a random factor and be right WAAAAAAY more often than wrong, because nearly all QBs coming out aren't going to be worth a damn. There have been, what, maybe a dozen Hall of Fame caliber QBs to come out since the infamous Marino/Elway/Kelly draft 35 years ago?
The player is as the player does.
The hand size matters because bigger hands helps you control the football and achieve consistency in your throwing. Does he have control over the football and consistency in his throwing? Yeah, better than pretty much anyone else in the draft. Then he's got big hands, regardless of what someone reads off a ruler.
The height matters because being taller generally allows you to see the field better. If you're tall enough, you have an easier time dropping the football into a certain area over the shallow middle. But you can see the field without being tall, and you can be essentially blind to what's going on out on the field even if you are tall. You can be awful at dropping the ball into the shallow middle if you're tall, and you can be really excellent at it if you're short because your size necessitated you become an expert at sliding your feet and making proper use of passing lanes.
And I don't need a forty time to look at Baker Mayfield play football and accuse him of being a damned Houdini that makes people miss constantly and creates outside of structure.
People looooove to talk about statistics in football. Use fancy terms. Talk about outliers and trends and how no player who has won the Super Bowl was this, or that, etc. I find almost not a damn one of them has any clue what the hell they're talking about with respect to statistics. And the quants that do have a true understanding of predictive statistics, trend following, technical analysis, etc...they generally don't know enough about football to recognize the challenges of mapping those techniques over.
Every single quarterback that has ever mattered at the NFL level is a statistical outlier. Every single one is in the words of Pat Riley, a "lightning bolt from God". There is no statistical trend. It doesn't exist. There are so few of them, playing in conditions that are so constantly changing, that it's laughable that people even try and decide what an "outlier" is on a certain predictive factor with a QB.
There are no shortcuts. There's no easy way out of this. There's no magic statistical bullet that's going to nail it for you. You have to roll up your sleeves and evaluate the player, because no formula is ever going to do it for you. There are no disqualifying factors (or at least, there are few). If you have a bunch of luck disqualifying QBs based on a factor it's probably because quite frankly you could disqualify QBs based on a random factor and be right WAAAAAAY more often than wrong, because nearly all QBs coming out aren't going to be worth a damn. There have been, what, maybe a dozen Hall of Fame caliber QBs to come out since the infamous Marino/Elway/Kelly draft 35 years ago?
There's gonna be a lot to come out about Mayfield between now and draft time. 11 is too rich for my blood with all the character stuff. I'd take him in the 2nd.
hoops
Tua time!
too much hand size talk
mike vick had 8 and 1/2 inch hands got drafted #1 overall despite being 6 foot even...
why? cause he ran 4.4 flat and had a cannon arm
ryan tannehill has 9 inch even hands
tony romo 8.88
we can keep going...
russ Wilson went in the 3rd round despite large hands. why? because of his height
where does hand size concerns come in with Mayfield anyways...kid can spin it...
I never said he would bust I just said that even 6 foot 1 qbs who run even 4.65 don't get drafted top 10...or at least they haven't to date...
mike vick had 8 and 1/2 inch hands got drafted #1 overall despite being 6 foot even...
why? cause he ran 4.4 flat and had a cannon arm
ryan tannehill has 9 inch even hands
tony romo 8.88
we can keep going...
russ Wilson went in the 3rd round despite large hands. why? because of his height
where does hand size concerns come in with Mayfield anyways...kid can spin it...
I never said he would bust I just said that even 6 foot 1 qbs who run even 4.65 don't get drafted top 10...or at least they haven't to date...
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Blake the great
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we pick at #11. Also...who cares if that has never happened before. Mayfield can play and it wouldn't surprise me if he's the best QB in this class. Fans and football heads get so caught up on measurables. That's how guys like Blaine Gabbert get picked so high and really had no business to be picked there.
I'd like to see you keep going with the <9"-hand list.
AphexPhin
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I would kill for us to draft Mayfield. Sadly I think its probably a pipe dream at best. oh well a boy can dream!
hoops
Tua time!
I bet it's a longer list than 6 foot 1 or less 4.65 or less top 10 pick qbs
go ahead drop em on me
and I didn't disqualify the kid in the first place...I just said it's never happened and I personally don't think it will happen again this year given that
it's funny that I can off the top of my head pretty much name 2 qbs with smaller hands than the supposed requirement yet there's only 2 qbs 6 foot or less in the league that anyone would consider to be franchise caliber...through 7 rounds of picks and udfas even
but yeah just dismiss that I guess...just like you keep dismissing josh allens draft pick value to teams when he fits all the prototypes
and just to be clear I'm not saying josh allen is a future franchise qb...for some reason I feel like I have to clarify that every time I say something about a players draft pick value
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My bad, I thought you meant what you said. When did I say that any of these QB's will or won't be drafted anywhere? I'm interested in the quality of the player, not what a bad franchise thinks of a player. A player's value, though, should be connected to your expectations of his future performance, so with regard to your last two paragraphs, are you talking about what teams will value or what you value?
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Regardless of hand size, height and at times acting like an immature knucklehead, I don't think Baker transitions well to the NFL. Just ordinary.
Props to Kiper for carving out one of the best sports broadcasting jobs ever. Don't be jealous...
Props to Kiper for carving out one of the best sports broadcasting jobs ever. Don't be jealous...