Barry Jackson 7/11/13 : Lamar Miller turning heads as Gore mentors | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Barry Jackson 7/11/13 : Lamar Miller turning heads as Gore mentors

El Calebra said:
I know the English language has changed in the last several years. (personally I hate made up words). Especially words made up and influenced by rap music.

I seem to be hearing this term physicality quite often from players and now I have heard it from the media.

Is Physicality actually a word? Really?

BTW. I also expect big things from Lamar Miller. He was great Cane and hopefully becomes a great Dolphin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/physicality

Definition of PHYSICALITY


1

: intensely physical orientation : predominance of the physical usually at the expense of the mental, spiritual, or social


2

: a physical aspect or quality
 
TheWalrus said:
But he's not very physical and he's shown a tendency to get injured, which means it's not really helping him. Weight is only a means to an end. It should help you be more physical, but if you're not physical at the weight then the weight isn't really doing anything for you. Look at Daniel Thomas, who's the opposite of physical despite being 230 pounds. If anything the extra weight could be stopping you from being more explosive and making more people miss.

Some guys are just physical and some aren't, which is why the Felix Jones comparison fits so well for me with Miller. They're the same size and speed and have a similar style. Jones has proven to be a train wreck from a injury perspective but as a rookie he averaged nine yards a carry on 30 carries and 5.9 yards per carry in his second year on 116 carries.

The shoulder thing in particular isn't what concerns me. I mean, how many running backs suffer from long term shoulder issues? I can't think of one. Ankle/knee issues like what Jonathan Stewart is going through is much more specifically concerning. What I'm more worried about is it always being something. He's not naturally physical which means he's always going to be absorbing the blow.
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You have to factor in that one of the last/slowest things to develop, anatomically-speaking, is the musculo-skeletal frame. There are a number of health reports circulating in the sport of rugby presently about the dangers of loading muscle mass and weight on an immature musculo-skeletal frame. Guys between 16 and 20 are being advised in rugby circles to tone down how aggressively they attempt to gain bulk, for fear it causes all sorts of anatomical side effects on hips, knees, ankles, shoulders, back and on the incidence of bone breaks.

Given the impact a running back faces and the necessity for him to pile on weight and muscle to cope with that, it surprises me that there aren't more cases where the bones and joints aren't fully capable of supporting the physical development that is loaded on them.

So, when I see injuries in young college athletes like Miller - who haven't reached maturity in terms of bone density or joint development, I don't think it follows necessarily that injuries will arise in the future, when they do have the frame to support their bulk.
 
I definitely can see Miller having a sophomore surge the same way Ridley did with the Patriots last year. Just having Wallace's speed threat out there is going to prevent teams from lining up to stop our running game. Hopefully our OLine is up to the task of creating a lane or two for him.
 
hooshoops said:
interesting points...i noticed last year in camp and the preseason up til the finale he was not taking contact well...maybe protecting that shoulder a little and timid of contact...but i didn't really notice any of that in the regular season...

short yardage i think you make a good point...not sure i see a lot of goal line back stuff here so i doubt he'll get many cheap tds..i think he's stouter on his feet and built lower to the ground with better balance that feliz jones though...and he carries close to 220 lbs very well...you wouldn't think he weighs that much looking at him in pads...
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But is that any different than Reggie Bush who got replaced by Daniel Thomas in those situations?
 
datruth55 said:
But is that any different than Reggie Bush who got replaced by Daniel Thomas in those situations?
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no...i don't think so...but i do like close to 220 in miller a lot better than i did like 205 bush in those instances...we probably still will have issues in goalline cashing in at rb...probably also why the more i think about it maybe i should temper any double digit tds expectations from miller...maybe 8 is a better number considering goalline
 
Fin Thirteen said:
You have to factor in that one of the last/slowest things to develop, anatomically-speaking, is the musculo-skeletal frame. There are a number of health reports circulating in the sport of rugby presently about the dangers of loading muscle mass and weight on an immature musculo-skeletal frame. Guys between 16 and 20 are being advised in rugby circles to tone down how aggressively they attempt to gain bulk, for fear it causes all sorts of anatomical side effects on hips, knees, ankles, shoulders, back and on the incidence of bone breaks.

Given the impact a running back faces and the necessity for him to pile on weight and muscle to cope with that, it surprises me that there aren't more cases where the bones and joints aren't fully capable of supporting the physical development that is loaded on them.

So, when I see injuries in young college athletes like Miller - who haven't reached maturity in terms of bone density or joint development, I don't think it follows necessarily that injuries will arise in the future, when they do have the frame to support their bulk.
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Interesting info, but usually when a guy is injury prone in college they continue to be injury prone in the pros. Sure, there are exceptions (Arian Foster, Adrian Peterson, Priest Holmes), but it's not the rule. Guys like Beanie Wells, Darren McFadden, Ryan Williams are far more common. As are guys who went relatively injury free in college only to start getting beat up once they hit the NFL.

Of course, injuries are part of the NFL. Especially at running back. Part of the reason to be particularly worried about Miller is that his likely backup -- Daniel Thomas -- has also been injury prone to go along with fumble prone, to the point where he might become waiver wire prone. In that case I have high hopes for Jonas Gray and think Mike Gillislee can be a serviceable player, but Miller's workload is likely to be higher than the typical 1 and 1a type division of labor you see in places like Houston. Sooner rather than later I think they're going to be relying on him the way Baltimore relies on Ray Rice, and that could be dangerous.
 
was ap injury prone at oklahoma??? i only recall the broken collarbone which i thought was way overblown...
 
j-off-her-doll said:
In regard to him being physical, he runs with good pad level, tends to fall forward, and he breaks arm tackles. For a guy with good vision, who looks to get up field, and is downright explosive once he puts his foot in the ground (which he does MUCH sooner than Bush), I think that's plenty. Health, holding on to the ball, and his non-running responsibilities (pass blocking, grasping his assignments) are the only concerns I have for Miller.

---------- Post added at 11:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:22 AM ----------

Not to say that those concerns are insignificant.
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Those I agree with. But I also think he runs timidly. Either he explodes through the hole or he picks along, looking to avoid contact rather than attacking a defender who's leverage is weak. As a result yes he'll avoid arm tackles at times, but that's because he's stopped his momentum and worked hard to only have the defender barely touch him which gives the next defender the opportunity to crunch him. If he attacked more he'd have to break through more arm (if you see what I mean), but the secondary defender wouldn't get such a clean shot on him. It's somewhat similar to what's happened to Reggie Bush over the years, though for a different reason. Bush's problem wasn't aggressiveness, it was a lack of instincts. But the result is the same. A guy like Jamaal Charles by comparison runs more aggressively than Miller which is why I think he's been pretty durable at his size (before 2011 he'd only missed one game in his career).

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hooshoops said:
was ap injury prone at oklahoma??? i only recall the broken collarbone which i thought was way overblown...
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I thought he broke it twice. Could be wrong, though.
 
TheWalrus said:
Interesting info, but usually when a guy is injury prone in college they continue to be injury prone in the pros. Sure, there are exceptions (Arian Foster, Adrian Peterson, Priest Holmes), but it's not the rule. Guys like Beanie Wells, Darren McFadden, Ryan Williams are far more common. As are guys who went relatively injury free in college only to start getting beat up once they hit the NFL.

Of course, injuries are part of the NFL. Especially at running back. Part of the reason to be particularly worried about Miller is that his likely backup -- Daniel Thomas -- has also been injury prone to go along with fumble prone, to the point where he might become waiver wire prone. In that case I have high hopes for Jonas Gray and think Mike Gillislee can be a serviceable player, but Miller's workload is likely to be higher than the typical 1 and 1a type division of labor you see in places like Houston. Sooner rather than later I think they're going to be relying on him the way Baltimore relies on Ray Rice, and that could be dangerous.
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so i guess given the ray rice part in this you could see miami making lamar miller a 3 down back??? cause rice does a lot of his damage in the passing game on 3rd down dump offs etc....
 
Ok, found the story. AP didn't break it twice. He broke it and then reinjured it.

http://voices.yahoo.com/peterson-reinjured-shoulder-during-fiesta-bowl-318232.html?cat=14

Also, he needed surgery on his shoulder after his freshman season at Oklahoma and was limited as a sophomore by a high ankle sprain. The collarbone injuries happened when he was a junior.

By contrast he's been fairly well indestructible as a pro outside of the knee injury two years ago.
 
hooshoops said:
so i guess given the ray rice part in this you could see miami making lamar miller a 3 down back??? cause rice does a lot of his damage in the passing game on 3rd down dump offs etc....
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I don't think they'll necessarily want to do that, I just think they'll be forced to because Daniel Thomas was either cut or injured. Gillislee can do the third down back thing -- it's why they drafted him -- but are they really going to give him that job full time? I tend to doubt it. He and Miller might end up, say, splitting it. That would mean a lot of extra snaps for Miller, especially since Gillislee is going to be a substandard NFL back if you just turn and hand it to him on first and second down, imo, so they won't be inclined to give Miller much of a breather on the early downs.
 
i don't know walrus about lamar miller looking to pick along...he looks much more decisive and one cut and get north and south to me than reggie bush ever did...i think bush's issues more than anything is he always would try to get wide and out flank the defense and try to outrun guys to the corner...and i can't count how many times i saw all the blocking flow to one side and yardage to be gained not 20 plus yards but solid gains 4 to 5 yards etc and who knows maybe more if he made a guy miss and he instead would for some reason stop in the backfield and try to shake the unblocked defender left free from the backside to outflank to that soft backside corner and end up either with lost yardage or a two yard gain and a pile on of help defenders cause he had no blocking help to that side...essentially free lancing...had to frustrate the oline coach and sherman...had to...i think it's other than his size and the amount of contact he's taken already why he's gone...

miller at least ran where the play was designed and took what was given to him...
 
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