Brandon Graham high on Miami's wishlist | Page 6 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Brandon Graham high on Miami's wishlist

I think Pryor is faster that Vince Young. I would consider a criticism that said that Graham's being able to catch him in the open field multiple times in that game was just a fluke, but I've seen him do it in other games with other players. In fact, the one time I didn't see him do it was in the Senior Bowl when the South handed off that WR reverse to Jeremy Williams. I think he thought all the play calls were going to be vanilla, he was just caught not anticipating the reverse.
 
i think that on tape grahams motor is plenty there...but i absolutely agree that at the senior bowl it was a whole different level...

i mean during the 1 on 1 drills and every drill after he beat the pants off the tackle etc he was straight sprinting back to the starting point...

i chalked it up to that week "all eyes are on me" and that he wanted to show the teams that he's a high motor high effort guy...basically doing what he could to help his what at the time seemed to be 2nd round range value...

but the effort in games i've never personally questioned...just like any guy that gives you high effort high motor the tendency is for people to say he's maxed out as a player...i don't think that's the case but i do think he doesn't possess the upside of some of the other top rated players on my board...ie eric berry and dez bryant
 
See I just can't call him a snap-to-whistle player based on what I saw in all those games. There were too many plays left on the field where he was jogging to the play and could have made a difference if he'd been hustling. Maybe he was tired, I don't know, but he was still jogging.
 
ck i thought i saw where all three of you universal draft guys think dan williams is overrated...yet i see on your kiperesque big board you have him as the 16th rated player in the draft...

i have him in the top 20 but it seems to me like you have him kind of high if you view him as overrated...
 
CK, awesome write-up! In my opinion, it's between Graham and Bryant at #12, and I'm leaning for the Wolverine, based on leadership value. While both are worthy pick at 12, what with their abundant skill and potential, I just feel more comfortable for the Dolphins' future with Dansby and Graham together for the next several years, leading this franchise to an elite level.
 
I definitely want Graham at #12 now. Or at least for the first round, since we might trade back and still get him.

He's 2 inches from being "the prototype".
 
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I always project a prospect playing against an NFL player I know really well. And in this case, a prospect matching up against a 2 year Pro who has been elected to the Pro Bowl in his first 2 seasons in the league.

Case in point - which OLB in this draft would scare me most if the Jets or Pats got a hold of, to play against Big Jake ? And to me, there is no question who that player is... it's easily Brandon Graham.

As CK alluded to about Morgan.. Derrick Morgan can get thrown off balance, he doesn't have really good balance and doesn't understand the little nuances of setting up his feet in certain situations.. He ends up on the ground quite a bit... so if a technically sound OT like Jake studies him, knows when to give a shove at the exact moment, and how to use his hands (and angle well) against him, it can throw Morgan off his game.

Morgan didn't do all that well in college against the most technical of OT's who also had good strength. So I am fairly confident that Jake would handle him.

Everson Griffen plays quite high on the rush, and doesn't really have a burst off the snap... and both those things would give a big leg up for Jake... Both of those things play right into jake's hands. He would handle Griffen.

Kindle ? Puh-lease.. Jake would eat that paddy cake alive. Kindle brings absolutely NOTHING to the table that Jake wouldn't gobble up on every play.. By the way I REALLY hope Kindle goes to the Pats or Jets in the 20's. That would be fantastic.

Now Brandon Graham on the other hand, would give Jake some trouble.. Graham's great combination of being technically sound, great balance and good feet when going full bore, his immense strength, great understanding of leverage, strong hands, and all the rest of his talents, would disrupt Jake more than any OLB in this draft.

Jake wouldn't get toasted all game long by Graham, so don't get me wrong.. but it would be an epic battle and Graham would have his fair share of wins he could hang his hat on.. I can name others in the draft, but Graham would give Jake more fits than anyone else.

That says a lot to me. I want no part of watching Graham being drafted by the Pats or Jets.
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Dolfans

while Im no CK and I dont study game film as much( I do) as others here I want to add my two cents into this conversation.

First In general terms regarding Graham I have nothing against him however I want to say BUT.... but Im not sold on Graham.
many will simply state he makes plays or you must over look his hght and so forth, when I watch a player I want to make a mental comparison to a current or past NFL player thus when I see Graham I see former dolphin Marco Coleman for some that may be a good thing for me its not.

Graham IMO will play but he wont be an all pro, he wont be Jason Taylor in his prime which brings me to why I feel the FO may not draft Graham if they feel as I do that what your getting in Graham is a 5-8 sack guy he's not worth 1st round money, however more directly they do have a positional blue print and I dont think they will make an "exception".

The only wild card is they totally made an exception with Pat White wild cat or not that was an EXCEPTION and they missed so that itself makes me feel more strongly they will stay away from any sorta exceptions.

Im not sure that the best player at 12 wont be an OL-man and honestly I feel they can find an OLB in later rounds that will have the same potential has a Graham, simply put I dont see an answer in round one for OLB.
 
ck i thought i saw where all three of you universal draft guys think dan williams is overrated...yet i see on your kiperesque big board you have him as the 16th rated player in the draft...

i have him in the top 20 but it seems to me like you have him kind of high if you view him as overrated...

I don't think he's overrated as a mid-1st. I've always liked his talent. I think and I've said that I would be disappointed if Miami took him. That's because I really like Paul Soliai's talent and I don't think Dan Williams as a rookie would be better than Soliai. That would mean that Williams just never plays, because the one-dimensional NT is only like a 50% position in this or any defense. And a first rounder that claims next to no snaps even in his rookie year...is generally deemed a bust. Miami would basically bench Soliai regardless of talent in order to justify Dan Williams' selection and to see what he has...and no matter how you slice it, I view as taking the best guy for the job off the field.

I think Soliai is a fine player. He was extremely raw when he came out of school and this position is one where you commonly don't see guys coming into their own until their 4th through 7th seasons. It takes a long time before you're reacting that quickly and using the proper leverage consistently. There are so many guys out there now that are well thought of that were not even where Soliai is at when they were in their 3rd seasons. Aside from that, we will have Jason Ferguson for 8 games and that's worth something.

But I do think Dan Williams is a talented player and even though Simon is really turned off on him, I like him.
 
alright...i got ya...

he flows laterally down the los better than any nose prospect i've seen on tape...pretty quickly also
 
Still think Williams would do better as a 4-3 DT.

I'm surprised to see Williams and Alualu rated higher than Odrick on CK's board, and I'm also surprised to see Matthews in the top 10. Alualu and Matthews are rated higher there than I've seen them rated on any other board. But, then, Graham, Hughes, and Washington are rated higher on your board than just about any other I've come across, and I agree with the value you've accessed to those prospect.
 
Dolfans

while Im no CK and I dont study game film as much( I do) as others here I want to add my two cents into this conversation.

First In general terms regarding Graham I have nothing against him however I want to say BUT.... but Im not sold on Graham.
many will simply state he makes plays or you must over look his hght and so forth, when I watch a player I want to make a mental comparison to a current or past NFL player thus when I see Graham I see former dolphin Marco Coleman for some that may be a good thing for me its not.

Graham IMO will play but he wont be an all pro, he wont be Jason Taylor in his prime which brings me to why I feel the FO may not draft Graham if they feel as I do that what your getting in Graham is a 5-8 sack guy he's not worth 1st round money, however more directly they do have a positional blue print and I dont think they will make an "exception".

The only wild card is they totally made an exception with Pat White wild cat or not that was an EXCEPTION and they missed so that itself makes me feel more strongly they will stay away from any sorta exceptions.

Im not sure that the best player at 12 wont be an OL-man and honestly I feel they can find an OLB in later rounds that will have the same potential has a Graham, simply put I dont see an answer in round one for OLB.

Most people say he is almost a clone of Lamarr Woodley. If Graham puts up his production, he is would be WELL worth #12.
 
I love this kids motor and play but he is just to small to play in a 3-4 scheme. He is only 6'1" and has short arms. I think we will be stuck trying to sort out what to do with him.

Graham's arms measured 321/4" at the combine which is not that short. Yes, he is about 2 inches short of ideal height for the prototype. However, as you pointed out he has a big motor and the one thing you can't measure is drive & heart. If they could a guy like Zach Thomas would have jumped off the chart. Point is that if they took Graham, I would not be upset one bit.
 
See, I agree that the chances are pretty good they won't take him. A look into Nolan's history should be fairly conclusive as to the "prototype" player they're looking for, whatever anyone says.

But I disagree that Graham isn't worth a top 15 pick. He's a fantastically productive player with strong, quick hands, great motor, good awareness, and good quickness in space.

If I were the GM, and guys like Eric Berry and Dez Bryant were gone, I'd take him and be very happy about it.

But this isn't about me, or what I think. The question is whether this regime would take him, given their preferences and their history.

And I simply don't know how anyone can look at the record and be confident predicting it will be Graham. He's enough of an outlier from their preferences it makes it very hard for me to project him to them @ #12.

I think if Keith Butler had been hired away from Pittsburgh it'd be a different story. That team has proven over and over again they don't care so much about the height of their linebackers. But Nolan has proven it, and people shouldn't let their personal feelings about what a prospect should or shouldn't be physically interfere with their ability to predict what these guys will do.
I like your confidence but think your basing these decisions on past drafts is a fail plan. Where did Pat White fit into your drafting system?

One thing you need to realize is neither Parcells nor Nolan is drafting, its Irelands show on draft day with the help of the other cohorts, The only thing you can gaurantee yourself is we like to draft in twos, anything after that is thrown out the window.

Does size matter sure..... but we are not talking about a 5'11 OLb here we are talking a 6'1 OLB big enough for his position.
Chubbs
 
I like your confidence but think your basing these decisions on past drafts is a fail plan. Where did Pat White fit into your drafting system?

One thing you need to realize is neither Parcells nor Nolan is drafting, its Irelands show on draft day with the help of the other cohorts, The only thing you can gaurantee yourself is we like to draft in twos, anything after that is thrown out the window.

Does size matter sure..... but we are not talking about a 5'11 OLb here we are talking a 6'1 OLB big enough for his position.
Chubbs

I know Ireland does the drafting, not Parcells. I never even mentioned Parcells in the post you quoted. But the fact is that it's not Ireland's job to just pick players that he likes. It's his job to pick players that fit his coaches' systems. And I think it's significant that in the 17 years Mike Nolan has been a defensive coordinator or a head coach, he's only had a hand in drafting one OLB shorter than 6'3, and that was a later round pick.

Maybe you think that history doesn't say anything about Brandon Graham's chances of becoming a Dolphin, but I do.

As for Pat White, it must be said that these size requirements don't stretch to every position. Mike Nolan has had a hand in drafting plenty of relatively undersized secondary guys, for example. What they look for in quarterbacks is wins, starts, those kinds of things. Pat White fit those requirements.
 
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