Brandon Graham high on Miami's wishlist

[Chubby]

I know Ireland does the drafting, not Parcells. I never even mentioned Parcells in the post you quoted. But the fact is that it's not Ireland's job to just pick players that he likes. It's his job to pick players that fit his coaches' systems. And I think it's significant that in the 17 years Mike Nolan has been a defensive coordinator or a head coach, he's only had a hand in drafting one OLB shorter than 6'3, and that was a later round pick.

Maybe you think that history doesn't say anything about Brandon Graham's chances of becoming a Dolphin, but I do.

As for Pat White, it must be said that these size requirements don't stretch to every position. Mike Nolan has had a hand in drafting plenty of relatively undersized secondary guys, for example. What they look for in quarterbacks is wins, starts, those kinds of things. Pat White fit those requirements.

I disagree totally, I think Ireland takes as much consideration from Parcells 1st and then his Coaches including Sprano, but its his show. I do beleive you are seeing his style of drafting. This is his show more now then at any other team.

Now it goes to say that Ireland imo is a Parcells clone but I do think he has learned to adapt to todays NFL.

So basically you have the last 2 drafts to look at for comparison purposes.
Yes size matters, you saw that the entire last draft. Every player for the most part was tallish etc... but the difference is I do beleive Ireland philosophy to drafting
1. Must be able to contribute immediately
2.Good Character
3. Ability
4.Now comes the size but here is where I think he is flexible. If their are two similar players in Ability and one is 6'4 and the other is 5'11 then yes they will go with size. But at 6'4 and and 6'1 or 6,2 your splitting hairs. I think weight is important as well.
5.Draft in pairs.

Graham is closer in their mold then you think with his big frame, his chest, legs & arms are huge.

So no going back to 15years of drafts to gauge how we will pick is useless, just look at the last 2 drafts.
Chubbs

 

[Mr. Magoo]

I disagree totally, I think Ireland takes as much consideration from Parcells 1st and then his Coaches including Sprano, but its his show. I do beleive you are seeing his style of drafting. This is his show more now then at any other team.

Now it goes to say that Ireland imo is a Parcells clone but I do think he has learned to adapt to todays NFL.

So basically you have the last 2 drafts to look at for comparison purposes.
Yes size matters, you saw that the entire last draft. Every player for the most part was tallish etc... but the difference is I do beleive Ireland philosophy to drafting
1. Must be able to contribute immediately
2.Good Character
3. Ability
4.Now comes the size but here is where I think he is flexible. If their are two similar players in Ability and one is 6'4 and the other is 5'11 then yes they will go with size. But at 6'4 and and 6'1 or 6,2 your splitting hairs. I think weight is important as well.
5.Draft in pairs.

Graham is closer in their mold then you think with his big frame, his chest, legs & arms are huge.

So no going back to 15years of drafts to gauge how we will pick is useless, just look at the last 2 drafts.
Chubbs

Wow. Just wow.

If you think that a GM doesn't have to change his priorities based on his coaches' system, then you are simply and very sadly mistaken.

Ireland calls the shots, I agree. He pulls the information from everyone and makes the final decision. But it's his job to pick the players who fit Nolan's system. He knows that. Every GM knows that and says it repeatedly.

In Baltimore, to use a recent example, they've switched back and forth over the years from a 4-3 (under Marvin Lewis) to a 3-4 (under Nolan and Rex Ryan). Their drafts reflected those changes. Ozzie Newsome is one of the best GMs around. He knows what his job is. He got the players his coaches need to be successful. You're not going to take some 6', 225 pound linebacker in the first round when Mike Nolan or Rex Ryan is your DC. You'd be fired immediately, and rightfully so.

So yes. While looking 17 years into the past is no kind of end-all, be-all, and priorities can change as the game changes, I think this kind of look says very strong things about the prototype of player these guys will be looking for.

And even if I were to take your wrong view about Ireland looking to Parcells before Sparano, Nolan and Henning, one things Parcells has said repeatedly over the years is the one thing he won't sacrifice in his linebackers is height.

 

[Chubby]

I definately beleive A GM has to take the system into consideration when drafting, that would be very absurd to think otherwise.Who the heck is aruging that? They must always choose a player that will fit into the system. And Graham fits our system, never thought that was an argument.

The argument is you say that Graham doesnt fit Parcells "measuring stick" for LB's. And I argue that Parcells "measuring Stick" does not hold as much weight anymore. Again Parcells is not drafting our players Ireland is.

Personally I see our pick at 12 either being Graham or E. Thomas guessing of course that Berry doesnt fall to 12.These players fit our system and are game changers.
Chubbs

 

[Mr. Magoo]

I definately beleive A GM has to take the system into consideration when drafting, that would be very absurd to think otherwise. They must always choose a player that will fit into the system. And Graham fits our system, never thought that was an argument.

The argument is you say that Graham doesnt fit Parcells "measuring stick" for LB's. And I argue that Parcells "measuring Stick" does not hold as much weight anymore. Again Parcells is not drafting our players Ireland is.
Chubbs

He doesn't fit Nolan's or Parcells' measuring stick. The measuring stick is part of the system. Therefore he doesn't fit the system.

And from where do you draw the conclusion that that measuring stick doesn't hold as much weight anymore?

Where?

Oh, that's right.

Nowhere.

 

[Chubby]

He doesn't fit Nolan's or Parcells' measuring stick. The measuring stick is part of the system. Therefore he doesn't fit the system.

And from where do you draw the conclusion that that measuring stick doesn't hold as much weight anymore?

Where?

Oh, that's right.

Nowhere.

Someone is a bit angry? Lol man chill, its a conversation treat it as such. Again you can beleive it if you like or you can continue to sleep with your measuring stick makes no difference to me. Enjoy your draft :)
Chubbs

 

[Mr. Magoo]

I'm not so much mad as annoyed that facts and research are being cheerfully refuted by totally made up bull**** and innuendo like long held player prototypes "do not hold as much weight anymore."

You made that up, and you know it.

But yes, enjoy your draft also. I'm sure our selections will come as a great surprise to you.

 

[ckparrothead]

I know Ireland does the drafting, not Parcells. I never even mentioned Parcells in the post you quoted. But the fact is that it's not Ireland's job to just pick players that he likes. It's his job to pick players that fit his coaches' systems. And I think it's significant that in the 17 years Mike Nolan has been a defensive coordinator or a head coach, he's only had a hand in drafting one OLB shorter than 6'3, and that was a later round pick.

Maybe you think that history doesn't say anything about Brandon Graham's chances of becoming a Dolphin, but I do.

As for Pat White, it must be said that these size requirements don't stretch to every position. Mike Nolan has had a hand in drafting plenty of relatively undersized secondary guys, for example. What they look for in quarterbacks is wins, starts, those kinds of things. Pat White fit those requirements.

I think you're overstating Mike Nolan's role in choosing those past draft picks. Recent history matters. He had no problems starting Parys Haralson in San Francisco, and he had no problems starting Elvis Dumervil in Denver. He enjoyed some success with Dumervil as well.

This isn't Nolan's call, just as those previous draft picks you go on about weren't his call. This is Ireland's call.

 

[finner]

I know a number of the “anointed ones” and/or “mavens” in these parts think Graham is a sure fire ALL Pro, but he really was NOT that dominate at the college level. Yea, the kid is a player and he shined at the Senior Bowl, but the OL of the South was definitely soft. Let’s put it this way – he won’t be playing against ANYONE in the NFL with those marginal skills and/or athletic chops.

Anyway, unlike the mavens and anointed ones I don’t spend 8 hours a day watching tape and “vacationing” at Pro Days etc. but I’m 100% certain Graham is NOT the second coming of LT, and I seriously doubt he’s a future ALL Pro.

Regardless of what’s being reported otherwise, the kid is “short” by current NFL spec for 3-4 OLB and does have truncated arms – albeit not midget arms. Bottom line, no one is going to confuse his athletic frame with DeMarcus Ware (who IS the prototype 3-4 OLB under this regime).

No way -- I don’t see Graham being worth the 12th pick. If we trade down, maybe be take him later.

 

[Chubby]

I know a number of the “anointed ones” and/or “mavens” in these parts think Graham is a sure fire ALL Pro, but he really was NOT that dominate at the college level. Yea, the kid is a player and he shined at the Senior Bowl, but the OL of the South was definitely soft. Let’s put it this way – he won’t be playing against ANYONE in the NFL with those marginal skills and/or athletic chops.

Anyway, unlike the mavens and anointed ones I don’t spend 8 hours a day watching tape and “vacationing” at Pro Days etc. but I’m 100% certain Graham is NOT the second coming of LT, and I seriously doubt he’s a future ALL Pro.

Regardless of what’s being reported otherwise, the kid is “short” by current NFL spec for 3-4 OLB and does have truncated arms – albeit not midget arms. Bottom line, no one is going to confuse his athletic frame with DeMarcus Ware (who IS the prototype 3-4 OLB under this regime).

No way -- I don’t see Graham being worth the 12th pick. If we trade down, maybe be take him later.

I do not annoint him the 2nd comming of anyone, I just think we have a huge whole at SOLB and he is the Best SOLB in this draft. Player fits the need. Same reason why I think E. THomas could be the pick at 12 as well.

The rest of your statement i kinda have to disagree bro, he showed up big in some very big games and against some really good talent which imo is more important then the combine or the senior vanilla senior bowl. The guy took over alot of games at Michigan.
Chubbs

 

[Mr. Magoo]

I think you're overstating Mike Nolan's role in choosing those past draft picks. Recent history matters. He had no problems starting Parys Haralson in San Francisco, and he had no problems starting Elvis Dumervil in Denver. He enjoyed some success with Dumervil as well.

This isn't Nolan's call, just as those previous draft picks you go on about weren't his call. This is Ireland's call.

But you know Mike Nolan had nothing to do with drafting Dumervil. He simply used an available resource, which of course you're sometimes forced to do, and Dumervil came through. Ray Lewis wasn't an ideal fit for Nolan in Baltimore, either from a size or mentality standpoint. But Ray Lewis was already on the roster and is a great player, so he made it happen.

Did Ray Lewis being 6'1, 250 influence San Fransisco's decision to take 6'1, 240 Patrick Willis that high? Maybe. It's certainly something to think about vis a vis this discussion.

The two players you mention are more than anything exceptions that prove the rule. Nolan's recent history also has him helping draft or starting 6'3 Robert Ayers, 6'3 Mario Haggan and 6'5 Manny Lawson, all of them, incidentally, on the strong side, where Graham would presumably also be playing.

I'm not saying Graham wouldn't be on their draft board or anything. Or that I don't really like him as a player. Just that his height deficiency seems to be important enough to this regime to push him down farther than being value @ #12.

I haven't done an extensive review of the Ireland/Parcells years in Dallas, but I'd wager you'd find the same thing. Ware, Spencer and Ellis, at least, all stand taller than 6'3.

 

[Mr. Magoo]

I know a number of the “anointed ones” and/or “mavens” in these parts think Graham is a sure fire ALL Pro, but he really was NOT that dominate at the college level. Yea, the kid is a player and he shined at the Senior Bowl, but the OL of the South was definitely soft. Let’s put it this way – he won’t be playing against ANYONE in the NFL with those marginal skills and/or athletic chops.

Anyway, unlike the mavens and anointed ones I don’t spend 8 hours a day watching tape and “vacationing” at Pro Days etc. but I’m 100% certain Graham is NOT the second coming of LT, and I seriously doubt he’s a future ALL Pro.

Regardless of what’s being reported otherwise, the kid is “short” by current NFL spec for 3-4 OLB and does have truncated arms – albeit not midget arms. Bottom line, no one is going to confuse his athletic frame with DeMarcus Ware (who IS the prototype 3-4 OLB under this regime).

No way -- I don’t see Graham being worth the 12th pick. If we trade down, maybe be take him later.

This is remarkably snotty logic for someone who admits he doesn't know what he's talking about...

 

[hoops]

that's just what some posters on here do...they snark at people who do watch tape and spend a lot of time looking at the prospects and call them "wannabe draft gurus" etc and act like they have so much better things to do with their time and then they throw out absolutes about what will and will not happen...


i think i laugh the hardest at all the absolutes presented..."we will not draft dez bryant" etc that get thrown around here as if these guys really know what this regime is gonna do...if it's your opinion that's fine and we're all entitled to them but just don't continuously try to sell me on exactly what this regime is gonna do...

as if anyone not in those draft meetings really knows...

 

[j-off-her-doll]

He was that dominate at the college level. He led the nations in tackles for loss, and he put up his best stats against ranked teams.

Fail.

 

[finner]

This is remarkably snotty logic for someone who admits he doesn't know what he's talking about...

Perhaps you should work on your comprehension a bit my friend? I did NOT say I didn't know what I was talking about -- I'm just not a pretend wannabe draft maven OK. LOL.

You would think some around here get paid for their posts -- you know, like their OPINIONS are "professional grade" and my god if someone disagrees with them its the end of the galaxy...

A few short (Graham's arms ago) a number of "mavens" were absolutely certain Glenn Dorsey was the absolute BEST DT in college and a GUARANTEED can't miss ALL Pro et cetera and blow me...

Really, some of these same "experts" still take their opinion like it's [capable of walking on water or inflating footballs with a kiss].

 

[Mr. Magoo]

Perhaps you should work on your comprehension a bit my friend? I did NOT say I didn't know what I was talking about -- I'm just not a pretend wannabe draft maven OK. LOL.

You would think some around here get paid for their posts -- you know, like their OPINIONS are "professional grade" and my god if someone disagrees with them its the end of the galaxy...

A few short (Graham's arms ago) a number of "mavens" were absolutely certain Glenn Dorsey was the absolute BEST DT in college and a GUARANTEED can't miss ALL Pro et cetera and blow me...

Really, some of these same "experts" still take their opinion like it's [capable of walking on water or inflating footballs with a kiss].

It wasn't just "draft mavens" saying Dorsey was a great player. The guy was the 5th overall pick. Apparently a few "teams" agreed.

And he's actually turned into a pretty good 3-4 DE, from all reports.

The draft is very much an inexact science. Even top notch personnel departments like the Chargers and Ravens **** up as much as they succeed.

And frankly, the argument that "getting paid" makes you good at something is a laughable one. Look at the drafts before Parcells, Ireland and co. showed up and tell me you don't know four or five people who could have done better. Look at all those professional restaurants that can't make a steak better than your buddy down the block can make one.

Sure, a lot of people overinflate their qualifications and how much they know. But if you do the diligence and are honest with your opinions, you have as much right as to state your opinion as anyone "getting paid" does.