Cam Newton Projected to Fall

[Chubby]

I really don't see them investing in a rookie QB to save their jobs. On top of that, they need the 2nd rounder so IMO they will trade down and get the BPA playmaker at that spot.
Question for CK. You think Kyle Rudolph is worth a late first round pick?

I want a 1st Round QB badly, one of the top 3 guys. Prerrably Gabbert,Newton or Mallet. But most likely you are correct they will trade down. If they do trade down, I would like to see:

1st Round - Kyle Rudolph
2nd Round. - Mikel LeShoure
3rd Round - Jerrel Jernigan(dont think he will make it to the 3rd but you never know)

At this point they will be living or dying with Chad again. But atleast weapons will be in place.
Chubbs

 

[j-off-her-doll]

why the heck is kyle rudolph not GREAT value for our team in a trade down scenario??? if the answer is he can't threaten teams down the seam or separate in man to man i absolutely disagree

I think the idea is that we need a franchise QB and that passing on one for the chance to take a good TE in a trade down is not a good value to this team.

 

[hoops]

I think the idea is that we need a franchise QB and that passing on one for the chance to take a good TE in a trade down is not a good value to this team.

assuming one of the top 3 qbs is there...fine

otherwise rudolph in the late 20's is awesome value

 

[j-off-her-doll]

There are also the injury concerns. Not my place to speak for anyone one way or the other, but that's how I read it.

 

[ckparrothead]

Its funny, I see it just the opposite, the best chance of them convincing the fan base in general that this organization is heading in the right direction and in the right hands is to find the true quarterback with the playmaking ability to take this team all the way in the future.

It seems to me to rely on Henne or some other castoff Vet becoming something he has not shown is far riskier.

I agree. Drafting a QB is typically the way you buy yourself more time to get it.

Dave Hyde and I were discussing this a few weeks back. It doesn't matter where you draft a guy. You live and die as a Head Coach acccording to your decisions at the QB position. There's no, "Well, he performed well for a 2nd rounder..."

Whether it's 2nd round, 6th round, trade, free agent, doesn't matter. Your wagons are hitched to your quarterback. I do not want the team to hitch their wagons to Chad Henne anymore. I don't believe the players in the locker room have any faith in him. I don't think the coaches really have any faith in him. The fans certainly don't. If he comes out and just starts playing lights out, that would be one thing. That faith will quickly start to be restored. But the chances of that are...? So what you're faced with is more along the lines of seeing 95% of the same old Chad, with potentially fewer interceptions because they favor shotgun passing more as opposed to play-action. But, unless fans and players are slapped in the face with something new, something they haven't seen from him before, they're going to keep thinking it's the same Chad. Any amount of team adversity will be felt that much more strongly, like holding a freshly burned finger near something hot.

If they think Colin Kaepernick threatens defenses right away that's fine. I don't. I do think Cam Newton threatens defenses right away, enough to play him immediately. And he's strong as an ox. The more the fans see the new QB, the more they're likely to give the coaches a pass for losing.

 

[hoops]

There are also the injury concerns. Not my place to speak for anyone one way or the other, but that's how I read it.

i heard the same stuff about gronkowski last year who i don't think is quite the downfield threat kyle rudolph projects to be

 

[ckparrothead]

I think the idea is that we need a franchise QB and that passing on one for the chance to take a good TE in a trade down is not a good value to this team.

Passing on a QB for a 2nd TE would be an even worse decision than when Dave Wannstedt overrode Spielman and took a 3rd CB over Drew Brees.

 

[ckparrothead]

i heard the same stuff about gronkowski last year who i don't think is quite the downfield threat kyle rudolph projects to be

Rudolph isn't the physical beast that Gronkowski is. More finesse.

 

[j-off-her-doll]

I agree. Drafting a QB is typically the way you buy yourself more time to get it.

Dave Hyde and I were discussing this a few weeks back. It doesn't matter where you draft a guy. You live and die as a Head Coach acccording to your decisions at the QB position. There's no, "Well, he performed well for a 2nd rounder..."

Whether it's 2nd round, 6th round, trade, free agent, doesn't matter. Your wagons are hitched to your quarterback. I do not want the team to hitch their wagons to Chad Henne anymore. I don't believe the players in the locker room have any faith in him. I don't think the coaches really have any faith in him. The fans certainly don't. If he comes out and just starts playing lights out, that would be one thing. That faith will quickly start to be restored. But the chances of that are...? So what you're faced with is more along the lines of seeing 95% of the same old Chad, with potentially fewer interceptions because they favor shotgun passing more as opposed to play-action. But, unless fans and players are slapped in the face with something new, something they haven't seen from him before, they're going to keep thinking it's the same Chad. Any amount of team adversity will be felt that much more strongly, like holding a freshly burned finger near something hot.

If they think Colin Kaepernick threatens defenses right away that's fine. I don't. I do think Cam Newton threatens defenses right away, enough to play him immediately. And he's strong as an ox. The more the fans see the new QB, the more they're likely to give the coaches a pass for losing.

Speaking of QB %'s, what % would you give Newton for overtaking Gabbert as your favorite in the draft? Random question, but I think I've noticed your excitement level for Newton steadily grow over the last few weeks.

 

[hoops]

Passing on a QB for a 2nd TE would be an even worse decision than when Dave Wannstedt overrode Spielman and took a 3rd CB over Drew Brees.

again...one of newton gabbert mallet fine...but after that any of these qbs over rudolph HELLS NO

 

[hoops]

Rudolph isn't the physical beast that Gronkowski is. More finesse.

i'll go along with that...i still think rudolphs a better all around te prospect going into the draft and fit for what we need

 

[hoops]

here's the other thing though...if you plan on trading down and still landing one of the top 3 qbs pretty much on everyones board after watching that garbage at the senior bowl practices and game pretty much all i can say is good luck...awfully risky if you ask me

i mean really it would be hard for me to be staring at a ryan mallet at pick #15 if i felt good about the kid enough to want to use a late 1st on him and letting that pass by considering where we are at the position...it would be quite the haul if you pulled it off AND landed a 2nd round pick in the process

 

[Mr. Magoo]

Parcells isn't there anymore.

They struck out on two Parcells QBs because they were slaves to "the profile".

That's a pretty optimistic way of looking at it, in my opinion. Ireland and Parcells don't agree on everything and some of those things they've disagreed about have come out but I don't see any reason to expect a wholesale change in the way they scout quarterbacks now that Ireland is running things rather than Parcells.

Ireland himself has said the basic philosophies won't change very much if at all now that Parcells is gone. He's "off the Parcells tree" as he says. There are a "thousand" different Parcells adages he holds close and follows. In his interview with Joe Rose he once again specifically cited "the makeup".

Whether the quarterback prototype works or not (and there is very little reason at this point to suggest it does) that's the way they seem to look at it. There's reason to believe they've added mobility to the list of things a quarterback needs but to take a one year starter in Newton, or even a two year starter in Gabbert or Mallett? There'll be no evidence they're willing to do it if and until they actually do it.

Until then we're just yelling at them for being as stupid as they are stubborn. And if they keep at it we'll be yelling at them long after they've been fired for not finding an elite quarterback.

 

[hoops]

That's a pretty optimistic way of looking at it, in my opinion. Ireland and Parcells don't agree on everything and some of those things they've disagreed about have come out but I don't see any reason to expect a wholesale change in the way they scout quarterbacks now that Ireland is running things rather than Parcells.

Ireland himself has said the basic philosophies won't change very much if at all now that Parcells is gone. He's "off the Parcells tree" as he says. There are a "thousand" different Parcells adages he holds close and follows. In his interview with Joe Rose he once again specifically cited "the makeup".

Whether the quarterback prototype works or not (and there is very little reason to suggest it does) that's the way they seem to look at it. There's reason to believe they've added mobility to the list of things a quarterback needs but to take a one year starter in Newton, or even a two year starter in Gabbert or Mallett? There'll be no evidence they're willing to do it until they actually do it.

Until then we're just yelling at them for being as stupid as they are stubborn.

yep

 

[ckparrothead]

again...one of newton gabbert mallet fine...but after that any of these qbs over rudolph HELLS NO

If none of those three are available and we trade down, it's still impossible for me to evaluate taking Rudolph unless I know who else was there. But I will say this, that position is not a priority for me either in free agency or in the Draft. They just gave Fasano an extension, he's not going anywhere. And he actually performed really well in 2010 and found the seam a lot more than I thought he would. The fact that Fasano looks so much more dangerous when Tyler Thigpen is in the game shows that a big part of Anthony's problem is Chad Henne, which is a big part of the offense's problem in general. Not to mention the guy was probably held in to pass protect more than any #1 TE in the game today, because of Dan Henning's archaic philosophies.

Any time you get into a thought process that says you need an Anthony Fasano AND a Zach Miller or 1st round pick...you've sold yourself into something. That's not what it takes to win or produce good offense in this league. The problems are elsewhere.