Cutler better than Tannehill? No. This article says it all

[Kdawg954]

Just judging from some of the old faces now scurrying out of the woodwork, IMO the biggest difference is that most Tannehill supporters believe he'd be better than Cutler for us, BUT will be rooting for Cutler to succeed and then confidently let the chips fall where they may next season.

Compared to that, I get the impression/opinion that most entrenched Tannehill detractors are secretly happy he went down and hoping that Cutler outperforms even his sterling 8 game stretch last season because their own egos and self-worth are so heavily invested in Tannehill's failure. They may be paying lip-service but in reality, for many of them, being proven right has been more important than team success.

Sure, I would hope that everybody is rooting for Cutler . . . but I do think the Tannehill supporters are extremely confident that Cutler won't peform up to Tannehill's "best stretch in 2016" and the idea of their being a possibility of letting the chips falling where they may really hasn't hit home and probably won't until Jay does it in the regular season at a high level . . . which is fair.

And you are right, there are people who are happy that Ryan is not behind center and they would take Jay Cutler, Colin Kapernick, Matt Moore, trade a first for Kirk Cousins, it doesn't matter. That group of fans were miserable during that 7-1 stretch which I find mind boggling but whatever.

16 years since a playoff win . . . I don't care who is behind there at this point . . . if they can play well and engineer a postseason victory . . . I'm all about that.

 

[Kdawg954]

So now Tannehill is on the level of an Alex Smith? :facepalm Amazing

He's more talented than Alex, but you have to admit that their career paths are eerily similar thus far. Ryan has flashed more at this stage of their careers but when I think of the best comparison for Ryan, Alex Smith flashes the most. Then again player comparisons are weak sauce generalizations so I wouldn't put much into them.

 

[Kdawg954]

You mean those sterling 8 games when 3 of those Ajayi runs for 200 yards, kiko has a pick 6 with a minute left and when A special teams TD return wins a game when the offense mustered 10 points? WOW that's a great 8 games by the QB.

It was a great stretch by the QB. Jay was great in the Steelers game, but that game was probably the best managed game Tannehill has EVER had. He was making all of the right decisions, moving around in the pocket, 3rd down conversions . . . when you get a chance, rewatch that game again and watch 17 work.

The Jets game Ryan had such a clutch 3rd down to Landry in that game where the rush was coming off the left side and he scrambled down and found Landry on a rope to convert in the 4th quarter. That guy wasn't here the first 4 years.

The Chargers game, that throw to Kenny Stills while getting drilled in the chest on his back foot for 60 yards was the most impressive throw I saw last year from ANY QB period. That was some BOSS ****.

The Rams game where that team struggled all game and Ryan kept it together and engineered 2 TDs drives in the final 6 minutes is what people have been dreaming for him to do.

The Cardinals game I mean it felt like we were watching one of Ryan's best games before he went down. The offense was purely efficient and he was making all the right plays . . . and that was coming off a depressing loss to the Ravens. He was showing the resilliance that many people knocked him for over the years.

The kid was balling, and it certainly is great that he got good games from Jay and the defense . . . but his play I fully believe elevated the entire play of his team. QBs have that effect on their teams and his leadership and conversions instilled the entire team with trust and confidence and the group played better. We saw similar with Chad Pennington in 2008 and we won 11 games.

 

[tay0365]

He's more talented than Alex, but you have to admit that their career paths are eerily similar thus far. Ryan has flashed more at this stage of their careers but when I think of the best comparison for Ryan, Alex Smith flashes the most. Then again player comparisons are weak sauce generalizations so I wouldn't put much into them.

Well, 1st off I believe Smith had better Coaches to help him grow then Tannehill, he also had a better Oline to give him that extra second without getting killed, but if you compare the 2 in their 1st 5 seasons...

Tannehill in 5 years has averaged 21 TDs 13 INTs, thrown for 3691, and a 62.7 comp %...compared to Smith who because of injury, and mediocre play had a horrible first 5 year average of 7 TDs to 9 INTs thowing for 1,406 yards, and a completion % under 60%.

Also Smith needed seven years, before he had a season good enough where he broke the 90 QB rating, while Tannehill has already done in twice in 5 years.

I personally disagree that Tannehill and Smith are similarQBs or on the same QB trajectory.

 

[Spiff]

Pretty much everything that you say is correct, Kdawg, except for one thing: Ryan Tannehill wasn't the major reason we have never won more than 8 games in a season before 2016. The main culprit was Joe Philbin.

 

[Kdawg954]

Well, 1st off I believe Smith had better Coaches to help him grow then Tannehill, he also had a better Oline to give him that extra second without getting killed, but if you compare the 2 in their 1st 5 seasons...

Tannehill in 5 years has averaged 21 TDs 13 INTs, thrown for 3691, and a 62.7 comp %...compared to Smith who because of injury, and mediocre play had a horrible first 5 year average of 7 TDs to 9 INTs thowing for 1,406 yards, and a completion % under 60%.

Also Smith needed seven years, before he had a season good enough where he broke the 90 QB rating, while Tannehill has already done in twice in 5 years.

I personally disagree that Tannehill and Smith are similarQBs or on the same QB trajectory.

Better coaches? Smith had 5 offensive coordinators the first 5 years of his career. Ryan will of only had 3 to deal with to start the season in his first 6 years. Also in his first 6 years he missed an entire season due to injury . . . just like Ryan Tannehill.

Smith also never had more than 8 wins in any of his first 6 seasons. Same as Ryan Tannehill

I even said that Ryan has flashed more than Alex Smith, but if you had to compare the career path of Ryan Tannehill to any QB in the NFL, Alex Smith clearly makes the most sense. Doesn't make him Alex Smith but they have quite a few similiarites in how they were handled and how they improved once offensive gurus came in.

 

[Kdawg954]

Pretty much everything that you say is correct, Kdawg, except for one thing: Ryan Tannehill wasn't the major reason we have never won more than 8 games in a season before 2016. The main culprit was Joe Philbin.

Well thats fair . . . I just believe the QB is the main difference maker on the field when it comes to wins and losses, more so than anybody else.

But Philbin clearly was a liability and I hated the guy early on.

 

[hoops]

Smith never went thru progressions like tannehill. He was a one read and take off with it qb early in his pro career. Primary or nothing. He's still a similar qb except that kc under the hc has installed a bunch of predetermined throws in the offense to the backs etc. where he's most similar with tannehill is that he takes care of the ball and doesn't beat you with his play but he's also more conservative than tannehill as a passer. The ball goes with tannehill where the coverage says it should go.

Cutlers gonna sling it for better or worse and that includes back foot bail out floaters too. I tell ya though and you guys can overlook it if you want don't get mired behind the sticks or scoreboard with cutler cause he's gonna throw picks a plenty with his lack of head and eye hold coverage play. He's ripe for bait calls and high pick numbers in that setting.

Hopefully gase can limit that exposure

 

[tay0365]

Better coaches? Smith had 5 offensive coordinators the first 5 years of his career. Ryan will of only had 3 to deal with to start the season in his first 6 years. Also in his first 6 years he missed an entire season due to injury . . . just like Ryan Tannehill.

That is very true, but when your last OC before gase is Zac Taylor, who was your QB coach the other year, your HC is not doing you any favors.

Smith also never had more than 8 wins in any of his first 6 seasons. Same as Ryan Tannehill

That is still just a Team Stat, there was very little Tannehill could do.

I even said that Ryan has flashed more than Alex Smith, but if you had to compare the career path of Ryan Tannehill to any QB in the NFL, Alex Smith clearly makes the most sense. Doesn't make him Alex Smith but they have quite a few similiarites in how they were handled and how they improved once offensive gurus came in.

No, I know you did, but my point is that Smith has had a far worse start to his career then Tannehill, and even though Tannehill is nowhere close yet to as good as him, someone like Brees would be closer.

 

[Daytona Fin]

I think Tannehill supporters will refrain from those threads unless we get a barrage of how much better Cutler is playing than Tannehill would have week after week. He hadn't thrown a pass yet before the "Tannehill is done in Miami" threads started. This thread is a direct response to those threads.

If there is a barrage of threads on this topic, they won't stay long . One thread on the Cutler/Tannehill debate is ample, this seems like a good start for a mega thread.

 

[roy_miami]

What do we think of Stafford? How does he compare the the great one? What should the Lions do, give him 25 millionish for another 5 years? Seems like he fits the "you can win with him" or "but who are you going to replace him with" mantra to a T. Like Tannehill Stafford is not respected enough to earn pro bowl bids, or all pro nominations, but he is respected enough to get voted into the top 100.

Anyway, Barnwell has an article on him and his impending free agency.

What Stafford is

Stafford completed just 57.2 percent of his throws at Georgia, which raised reasonable concerns about whether he would ever be an accurate enough quarterback at the NFL level to justify his draft status. He was a high-risk, high-reward option.

Instead, Stafford has been ... boring? Scouts who might have imagined Stafford airing the ball out and chucking it downfield like some sort of Al Davis fantasy couldn't have imagined that Stafford would end up playing in one of the league's shortest passing schemes halfway through his career. The Lions have a Ferrari and take it out every day to drive a half-mile to the grocery store.

Should the Lions let Stafford go?

The answer is less about Stafford than their alternatives. Detroit hasn't prepared for a post-Stafford future -- its backup quarterbacks are a pair of sixth-round picks in Jake Rudock and rookie Brad Kaaya, who would leave the Lions all but doomed if Stafford does suffer an injury. Rudock didn't throw a pass as a rookie in 2016. Taylor wasn't especially experienced in Baltimore, but he'd at least thrown a game's worth of passes.

This isn't the right time for the Lions to throw up their hands and move on. While the truly great quarterbacks in the league are underpaid, there will come a point where an organization will look at the bird it has in its hand and decide that it isn't quite as exciting as what might be lurking in the bush.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...rd-25-million-per-season-quarterback-2017-nfl

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

What do we think of Stafford? How does he compare the the great one? What should the Lions do, give him 25 millionish for another 5 years? Seems like he fits the "you can win with him" or "but who are you going to replace him with" mantra to a T. Like Tannehill Stafford is not respected enough to earn pro bowl bids, or all pro nominations, but he is respected enough to get voted into the top 100.

Detroit should, and will, pay Stafford. Should he be the highest paid QB? No, but neither should Derek Carr. Will they make him the highest paid QB until other QBs get their contracts, yes.

Like Tannehill, the supporting cast has been a bigger issue than the QB. I have Stafford ranked right in the 8 - 15 range with Tannehill and others. Not elite, but a very good QB that you can build around. I promise you that moving on from Stafford (or Tannehill) is MUCH more likely to lead to MIke Glennon, Blake Bortles, or Brian Hoyer than Aaron Rodgers.

History has PROVEN you can win a SB without a QB playing at an elite level. Between a half and two thirds of the SB winning QBs over the last 20 years were not playing at an elite level in the year they won the SB. Aaron Rodgers has the same number of SB wins as Joe Flacco. Eli Manning has the same number of SB wins as Peyton (and twice as many as the elite version of Peyton) and twice as many and Brees and Rodgers.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

But he isn't healthy and he won't have more than 8 wins on his resume in any season entering the 7th year of his career and he will not have played football in over a year . . . and he never really has put up eye popping stats.

I'm talking about his health in a year, so unless you have a time machine or are Nostradamus......

 

[spiketex]

Tannehill's unfortunate absence for this season, presents the opportunity to compare and contrast how another QB (Cutler) performs with the same Offensive weapons. Rather than jumping to conclusions, let's take the time to carefully observe what happens. Tannehill and Cutler have different strengths and weaknesses but don't underestimate the significance of leadership. I expect Cutler to take command of the huddle and embrace the challenge ahead. Cutler is higher risk but he may also have the potential for higher upside results.

 

[<O>]

I promise you that moving on from Stafford (or Tannehill) is MUCH more likely to lead to MIke Glennon, Blake Bortles, or Brian Hoyer than Aaron Rodgers.

Yes it is, no doubt about it. Only 15% of the QBs drafted in the top 10 overall since 2004 have become elite. Only 11% (1 of 9) of the QBs picked #1 overall since 2004 have done so, and that's only if one considers Cam Newton elite.

The rest of those picks have played at the Tannehill/Stafford level or worse.

Now consider the likelihood of contending for a Super Bowl with a well below-average QB, which you may just obtain if you jettison someone like Tannehill or Stafford. It's virtually nil.

You have to stick with the Tannehill-level QB and build around him.