I'm open to any objective evidence that Bess isn't a playmaker. We're about a hundred posts in and I haven't seen it.
Davone Bess is a Playmaker
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Your post is stupid and biased.
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No, you just dot want to hear the arguments because your metrics are SO much better.
1. Look at their contracts. If anyone valued Hartline are a legitimate playmaker, dont you think he would have gotten a much larger contract from someone? Dont you think someone would offer us a 2nd rounder for Bess? So obviously no NFL exectutive hold the opinion of those two guys that you do. I suppose the logical conclusion here is youve figured out something nobody else has because youre smarter than everyone. Seems likely.
2. Miami's offense. Last season we had the #18 and the #31 playmakers in the entire league at WR according to your stat. Surely we were a highly efficient offense team, no? I mean, Thats two of the 31 best in the NFL. How many teams can say that? I dont feel like looking up our offensive numbers, but Im just going to assume we are a top 5 offense last year. Seems like the obvious conclusion here.
3. Complete lack of TDs. Even if I grant you that TDs arent the entire playmaker package (and they arent), youd still expect a playmaker to find himself open in the endzone every now and then or bust a catch for a TD every now and then. Neither of them do.
Your stat is bunk, man. You made the thread. You have yet to offer any of us a single objective reason to even give this stat the time of day. You base your entire opinion on ANY stat in football and youre just begging to be ridiculed. Football is not a game that lends itself to individual players being broken down with advanced statistics. Youll always have an incomplete picture at best. WAR is great in baseball. In football...LOL.
Davone Bess is not a "playmaker" by the standard definition of the word as it pertains to football.
He is a very, very solid slot receiver. He is not explosive. HOWEVER...if it was 3rd and 6, and you had a bet with the Devil that you would make a first down...and the wager was your immortal soul...you know you would cross your mind as an option to put in the slot to get 6+ yards? Davone Bess, that's who.
That being said, it is quite conceivable that he no longer has a place in the offense that Philbin is trying to create. Because he is limited by his lack of speed.
He is a very, very solid slot receiver. He is not explosive. HOWEVER...if it was 3rd and 6, and you had a bet with the Devil that you would make a first down...and the wager was your immortal soul...you know you would cross your mind as an option to put in the slot to get 6+ yards? Davone Bess, that's who.
That being said, it is quite conceivable that he no longer has a place in the offense that Philbin is trying to create. Because he is limited by his lack of speed.
Can't believe u are arguing with the dolphins version of junc
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OP - what exactly is your definition of a playmaker? Surely there are different levels of playmakers?
Sure, if you thinking making a few catches a game for first downs constitutes being a playmaker, then yes, Davone Bess is that. He makes plays. But he isn't a game breaker, he isn't going to effect the outcome of a game like an A.J. Green will, or like a Victor Cruz will. In todays NFL, slot receivers need to be fast, with ability to get tough YAC and score touchdowns. Unfortunately, Davone Bess isn't any of the above. An upgrade is needed.
Sure, if you thinking making a few catches a game for first downs constitutes being a playmaker, then yes, Davone Bess is that. He makes plays. But he isn't a game breaker, he isn't going to effect the outcome of a game like an A.J. Green will, or like a Victor Cruz will. In todays NFL, slot receivers need to be fast, with ability to get tough YAC and score touchdowns. Unfortunately, Davone Bess isn't any of the above. An upgrade is needed.
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Actually, you'll find that even junc understands that football is a complex game that involves 22 moving pieces interacting with each other at all times and that trying to apply Sabermetrics to a football position that is completely dependent on quarterback play, coverage, etc. results in really, really funny conclusions, like that Brandon Gibson is twenty times better than Larry Fitzgerald (as the very page cited in the OP suggests).
Unfortunately for the folks who just picked up and read Moneyball over the weekend, it ain't that simple.
LandShark13
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Bess has only missed 3 games in 5 years.
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Baseball WAR, if you sort it from highest to lowest, is actually really logical and accurate for the most part. You might have quibble that the #10 guy should be higher or the guy at 15 is a top 10 player, but you almost never see anything shocking. An avid baseball fan could rank the top 20 position players and top 20 pitchers without looking at WAR and it would be more or less what WAR says. Not so in football. In football advanced stats you get all sorts of ****ed up rankings that just make no logical sense to a football fan. Brandon Gibson in the top 10 for playmakers. LOL. guess that gives us three top 31 receivers next year. Wallace can settle into his spot as the #4 option.
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Gibson is the #7 playmaker in the league. Bess is #18. Hartline is #31.
Count it up. Thats THREE of the top 31 playmakers at the WR position in the NFL. Our offense is gonna be straight nasty this year. We have three guys that are basically #1 receivers and PLUS we have Mike Wallace, the #78 playmaker in the league, as a 4th option and depth. So sick. We makin it rain 1st downs and **** this year. Playmakers errywhere!!!
Count it up. Thats THREE of the top 31 playmakers at the WR position in the NFL. Our offense is gonna be straight nasty this year. We have three guys that are basically #1 receivers and PLUS we have Mike Wallace, the #78 playmaker in the league, as a 4th option and depth. So sick. We makin it rain 1st downs and **** this year. Playmakers errywhere!!!
I think he's talking about Bess being injured in the 4th quarter of the Jets game in 2011.
Someone whose plays increase his team's probability of winning, which takes into consideration the context of the game at the time those plays are made.
And if that drive needs to be sustained to win the game, that is a play. The fact that, as you said, Bess would likely be your go-to guy in that situation, based on his past performance, means he's a playmaker. You need a play made to help you win a game, and you call on him. Why? Because he's shown he can be a reliable playmaker.
I find this interesting because Bess has led the Dolphins wide receivers in YAC every year except one, 2011.