Dolphins bash Florida Legislature for failing to pass stadium bill

[ITS!MATEO]

I agree wholeheartedly with Finomental and Dlockz. Private business... pay for your own renovations..


I don't even want to hear the argument that 4,000 jobs will help the city because the truth is that it will not. Not even a little bit. Those jobs will be there for a few months, maybe even up to year, but once they have everything built and in place, the market will dictate the amount of jobs. If the city is doing well then the stadium will do well. If the city is still in the hole (practically bankrupt as it is and doesn't look like it will be better anytime soon) then there will be less fans coming to the games (just like the past few years) and in return less money to employ people. Pretty simple ****...

 

[dlockz]

:crazy:

The truth comes out.



And there you have it.

Only on this board will you get Dolphins fans defending corporate subsidies for Russian bankers over corporate subsidies for the Miami Dolphins. Only on this board.

The banksters have won again.

also about intl banking
nternational banking is another growing segment of the economy. With total deposits of $74.3 billion in 2003, about 100 commercial banks, thrift institutions, foreign bank agencies, and Edge Act banks are located in downtown Miami, representing the largest concentration of domestic and international banks on the East Coast south of New York. Brazilian, British, Canadian, French, German, Israeli, Japanese, Spanish, and Venezuelan banks have offices in Miami-Dade County. Still, domestic banks dominate the market, led by Bank of America Corp., which has total deposits of over $7.8 billion in its 25 local offices.

part of article also
Proponents of the stadium legislation want to end the tax exemption, force banks to pay new taxes on these specific transactions and funnel any new revenue to the Dolphins for the stadium renovation.

This plan makes very little sense for a number of reasons.

Florida International Bankers Association (FIBA) analysis indicates that international banking and related activity contributes more than $1.8 billion in economic output to Florida’s economy yearly, supporting nearly $1.2 billion in Gross State Product, 13,600 employment positions paying $589 million in compensation to Florida workers. In addition to these impacts, international banking and related activity generated $89 million in revenues to state and local governments in the last year.

The numbers only tell part of the story.

A robust international banking community contributes to the overall economic growth of our region and our state. The Miami-Dade real estate market owes much its recent recovery to international buyers, who work closely with their international bankers. New construction on Brickell Avenue and in downtown Miami has been bolstered by the international market.

Condo units, sitting dormant throughout the county for years, were scooped up by international buyers who have transformed these non-performing assets into taxpaying, grocery buying, and entertainment consuming households.

A practical argument against the legislation also exists. International banks have a choice as to where to locate these operations and can easily choose to move the jobs associated with these transactions to another state. Many of these are well-paying, solid jobs being held by local employees who may not be relocated.

Further, if international banking jobs are moved to another state like New York, then the banking activities will be managed in New York — and not generate any revenue for the stadium. It turns out to be a lose-lose. And even worse, if the international banking tax benefit is taken away and the Dolphins referendum is defeated (a likely possibility) then everyone loses: the banks, Florida and the Dolphins.

International bankers are not alone in their opposition to this legislation. The Downtown Development Authority, the Greater Miami Chamber of Commerce, and the Florida Bankers Association all support FIBA and its efforts to defeat the anti-bank aspects of the legislation. The Florida Legislature needs to reassess its position on this bill. Stadium upgrades are a fine goal but not at the expense of hundreds of jobs that generate tremendous benefits for our community.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/04/29/3370759/lose-lose-aspect-of-stadium-deal.html#storylink=cpy



So in reality its not as simple as your favorite team versus corporate america because in actuality the dolphins and the NFL are corporate america.

One thing I never get is why doesnt the dolphins ask for funds like these
Business location incentives at the local level include Empowerment Zone and Enterprise Zone opportunities, each of which offers tax or wage credits to businesses based on the number of new jobs created. The Miami-Dade County Targeted Jobs Incentive Fund is available to companies that are on the list of industries identified by the county as desirable additions to the local economy

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

I know I said I was done with this thread but I just want to point out the sheer ****ing hypocrisy of taking those numbers from the Florida International Bankers Association on the economic benefits of international banking at face value after having spent months pointing out the stupidity of taking the NFL's numbers on the economic benefits of hosting a Super Bowl at face value.

 

[ITS!MATEO]

I couldn't get into any of the intl banking vs local banking discussion because i'm actually an anarcho-capitalist


True Free market FTW!

 

[dlockz]

I know I said I was done with this thread but I just want to point out the sheer ****ing hypocrisy of taking those numbers from the Florida International Bankers Association on the economic benefits of international banking at face value after having spent months pointing out the stupidity of taking the NFL's numbers on the economic benefits of hosting a Super Bowl at face value.

I dont take either number at their word but I know international banking has more affect on the miami economy than the NFL does . Of course both organizations will inflate their numbers.

Not to mention unlike the people that disagree with me. When you brought me to task I gave you my exact viewpoint, did not tip toe around it.

 

[NCFINFAN13]

I couldn't get into any of the intl banking vs local banking discussion because i'm actually an anarcho-capitalist


True Free market FTW!

Speaking my language brother!

 

[finomenal]

Of course not they will call me a hater or say I only say negative things about the dolphins. I will admit I have had more to say negative in recent years because thats what losing is, negative, its not positive.
I wish people had been this upset about the bush/gore election. I never understood an agreement being made basically about the deal when state law mandated that bed taxes were maxed already. Wouldnt it have been wise to try to fix that aspect first. Maybe you can help me on one issue. How much money is actually involed
This is from article
Florida lawmakers ended their 60-day legislative session on Friday without approving a deal that would have provided taxpayer support for a $350 million dollar upgrade to Sun Life Stadium, according to the Miami Herald.

Had the legislature approved the deal, the people of Miami-Dade county would have voted on a referendum on May 14. The proposed deal would have raised up to $289 million for renovations by raising the Miami-Dade hotel tax from 6 to 7 percent. The Dolphins would have also had a shot at up to $90 million in state sales tax rebates.

Plusthis from another article
As the county commission meets today to consider a proposed deal to renovate Sun Life Stadium, news comes that the NFL has decided to chip in $150 million of the estimated $480 million it would cost to Flip This House, leaving the county and the Dolphins with $350 million to cover. The deal also includes a clause that would cancel any local taxpayer funding if the Dolphins are not awarded Super Bowl L or LI.

There's a consensus building that this is a significantly less taxpayer-face-punching of a deal than the Marlins Park catastrophe, considering the team would end up covering 70 percent of the snazzy refurbishing. But given the Fish's ongoing meltdown, will voters be on board for even that more modest contribution to a sports franchise?

The deal would leave Stephen Ross $41 million shy of his promised $191 million

How is this 70 percent?

You and your damn facts. All that stuff doesn't matter. It's sports! That means cities need to open their legs at all times when it comes to financing stadiums, no questions asked.



I don't agree to that way of thinking. I guarantee you 99% (if not 100%) of the people bashing Miami and/or Tallahassee did not do any research whatsoever on what this plan consists of. First off, it's Miami we're talking about aka the Banana Republic. Secondly, it's Miami. Miami is no stranger to fuzzy math and misrepresentations. For anyone who wants to write that off as opinion is simply not informed. I live in South Florida. I saw it happen with the Marlins recently, with the Miami heat and their previous stadium also. The Metro Rail (also publicly financed) was such a failure of a project that it's been coined "Metro Fail" down here. There's more cases too. It's all out there to read if you chose to.

Ross and company know that if they throw that 70% figure out there, people will just repeat it and not look further into exactly how much he will actually be contributing. It sounds like a good percentage to the masses. That's all that matters. I don't care about whatever they say the project will cost. There are always overruns in cost with this type of project. Again, anyone who denies that is uninformed. This information is all public and verifiable. Look it up. I haven't heard one peep out of Ross on who would be responsible for overruns.

But hey, what's most important is getting this deal done because it's sports, right? Hank Goldberg (even though he's an ass) and the late Jim Mandich always spoke out about these types of projects. That's one of the many reasons why I enjoyed their radio shows. They stood up for what's right.

What I find especially annoying are the people who don't even live here who talk badly about the politicians for not getting the deal done. Ha! That's rich. Of course you don't care about the details behind how it gets done. You want it done for your own selfish reasons, consequences be damned. I love the argument, "Well it will create jobs." Interesting. After all those construction workers are done renovating, are they going to get transitioned to other jobs in the stadium? Maybe backup cashier? Extra mascots? Fill in cheerleaders perhaps? Yes, I realize that not all of the 4,000 will be construction workers, but a lot of them will be. You know what else creates jobs? Small business. Sports isn't some magical elixir of job creation that you can't get anywhere else.

"But it helps out the economy!" Plenty businesses in Miami alone help the economy immensely. That's a sorry excuse. "But they might move the team!" If he does, so be it. More people need to have my attitude. I wouldn't be surprised if the politicians purposely held things back so it wouldn't get done. Good for them if that's the case. We see too many instances of owners threatening to move if demands aren't met. Screw you. They need to call his bluff. You want to leave? Fine. Good luck elsewhere. Go take advantage of some other city.

One last point. We don't root for other businesses like we do sports. If Ross wanted to renovate commercial buildings for any other companies he owns, he would get a loan or pay for it outright. The same people clamoring for this deal would be angry at the prospect of some billionaire asking for public money in order to finance his downtown real estate buildings, for example. Take the emotion out of this. They use your emotion against you to try and leverage their agenda.

 

[dlockz]

Here are two papers on super bowl and stadium financing impact by someone with no stake in game

http://college.holycross.edu/RePEc/hcx/Matheson_SuperBowl09.pdf

His finding The Super Bowl is America‟s premier sporting event. This paper details basic economic
facts about the game as examines the controversy surrounding the purported economic impact of
the game on host communities. While the league and sports boosters claim that the game brings
up to a $500 million economic impact to host cities, a review of the literature suggests that the
true economic impact is a fraction of this amount.

http://college.holycross.edu/RePEc/hcx/Matheson-Baade_FinancingSports.pdf

Interesting paper on financing of stadium.

Also isnt the same group that estimated economic impact for the marlins the ones that came up with the numbers for the dolphins. I have heard this no exact proof though.

Also on economic impac
PricewaterhouseCoopers has estimated the economic impact of multiple Super Bowls. According to its analysis, direct visitor spending has ranged from a low of close to $120 million in Detroit in 2006, to high of about $200 million in Dallas/Fort Worth in 2011. The firm (which wasn’t paid by the Host Committee) projected $185 million in economic impact for the New Orleans Super Bowl held earlier this year.

 

[Viper Prime]

You're incredible. You piled on Starks vehicle incident in SoBe, asserting where there's smoke there may be fire, have spent a ****load of bandwidth here recently, denigrating the Jordan pick (but not as much as you did claiming Wake would never work out cuz he's from the CFL), yet are in the middle of a heated defense of Geno Smith although a bunch of sources, with empirical and anecdotal evidence and no axes to grind have weighed in in similar negative fashion, and now are blaming Ross instead of the crooked legislature which found the time to vote to increase their own fundraising limits but didn't have the time for even a vote (probably unless the right palms were greased)

The Dlox paradigm: if they aren't Fins involved they get the benefit of the doubt; if it's the Fins, "fire first and ask questions later." I know it's hard-wiring you yourself may not be aware of, but really it's beyond ponderous at this point. :idk:

THANK YOU VAARK! Tired of all the negativity.

 

[Fin Fan in Cali]

Brothers this is a sensitive issue that hits home for all Dolphin fans. Please be respectful and debate the post and do not make it personal with the other poster.

Thanks a lot,

John

 

[finomenal]

THANK YOU VAARK! Tired of all the negativity.

Do you know who will be responsible for covering the cost overruns?

 

[dlockz]

You and your damn facts. All that stuff doesn't matter. It's sports! That means cities need to open their legs at all times when it comes to financing stadiums, no questions asked.



I don't agree to that way of thinking. I guarantee you 99% (if not 100%) of the people bashing Miami and/or Tallahassee did not do any research whatsoever on what this plan consists of. First off, it's Miami we're talking about aka the Banana Republic. Secondly, it's Miami. Miami is no stranger to fuzzy math and misrepresentations. For anyone who wants to write that off as opinion is simply not informed. I live in South Florida. I saw it happen with the Marlins recently, with the Miami heat and their previous stadium also. The Metro Rail (also publicly financed) was such a failure of a project that it's been coined "Metro Fail" down here. There's more cases too. It's all out there to read if you chose to.

Ross and company know that if they throw that 70% figure out there, people will just repeat it and not look further into exactly how much he will actually be contributing. It sounds like a good percentage to the masses. That's all that matters. I don't care about whatever they say the project will cost. There are always overruns in cost with this type of project. Again, anyone who denies that is uninformed. This information is all public and verifiable. Look it up. I haven't heard one peep out of Ross on who would be responsible for overruns.

But hey, what's most important is getting this deal done because it's sports, right? Hank Goldberg (even though he's an ass) and the late Jim Mandich always spoke out about these types of projects. That's one of the many reasons why I enjoyed their radio shows. They stood up for what's right.

What I find especially annoying are the people who don't even live here who talk badly about the politicians for not getting the deal done. Ha! That's rich. Of course you don't care about the details behind how it gets done. You want it done for your own selfish reasons, consequences be damned. I love the argument, "Well it will create jobs." Interesting. After all those construction workers are done renovating, are they going to get transitioned to other jobs in the stadium? Maybe backup cashier? Extra mascots? Fill in cheerleaders perhaps? Yes, I realize that not all of the 4,000 will be construction workers, but a lot of them will be. You know what else creates jobs? Small business. Sports isn't some magical elixir of job creation that you can't get anywhere else.

"But it helps out the economy!" Plenty businesses in Miami alone help the economy immensely. That's a sorry excuse. "But they might move the team!" If he does, so be it. More people need to have my attitude. I wouldn't be surprised if the politicians purposely held things back so it wouldn't get done. Good for them if that's the case. We see too many instances of owners threatening to move if demands aren't met. Screw you. They need to call his bluff. You want to leave? Fine. Good luck elsewhere. Go take advantage of some other city.

In reality there are not a ton of cities that want to take on the cost of luring an NFl team there. Hell LA how long they been talking about a new stadium. Chicago supposedly wants another NFL team and build a new stadium but although the taxpayers are still taking a huge hit on paying for 2003 renovations

At the time, the agency provided more than $400 million toward the $600 million project, which included some money for work at U.S. Cellular Field. The ISFA increased its debt, but the city agreed to cough up the extra money if hotel tax revenue fell short. Soldier Field reopened in 2003, but cost overruns made the total for the entire project about $690 million and a Tribune analysis showed the public portion was actually $432 million.

 

[Fin Fan in Cali]

Do you know who will be responsible for covering the cost overruns?

If that is a concern then you put it back on the Dolphins for any over runs as a concession to get this done as a win for the community and the team.

 

[finomenal]

I dont take either number at their word but I know international banking has more affect on the miami economy than the NFL does . Of course both organizations will inflate their numbers.

Not to mention unlike the people that disagree with me. When you brought me to task I gave you my exact viewpoint, did not tip toe around it.

International banking has more of an affect on our entire country than the NFL. But that's a topic for the POFO forums.

 

[dlockz]

Brothers this is a sensitive issue that hits home for all Dolphin fans. Please be respectful and debate the post and do not make it personal with the other poster.

Thanks a lot,

John

I wish that people would heed that advice, thanks for putting that out there .