Dolphins looking to trade up in the Draft?

[hoops]

just like there's no magic formula for evaluating draft talent there's no proven long term winning concoction in pro football that doesn't include a high end qb under center...

it's the straw that stirs the drink...

 

[TheWalrus]

ok so your thought is if you are picking this high you should never be looking at a offensive tackle or i would assume olineman period...you'd rather go the route of a premium talent at a skill position...i get that...

but tell me this does cleveland never win and pick top 5 year in and year out pretty much cause of joe thomas or cause they have never been able to fill the qb position with a difference maker??? i mean can you see where i'm coming from here with some of this...t rich was a top talent position player who i know you endorsed a one of the top bpa in the draft period buit didn't add up to any wins...why??? cause the qb wasn't good enough or wasn't a big enough difference maker

You're only going have so many great players on a team. And top picks are the best way to acquire one. What the best teams do is try to make sure their top players at the most important positions. San Fran is the unique case because they have a bounty at every position but think of it this way. The Giants, I believe, have elite skill position guys on offense. If you took away those players and gave them an elite offensive line instead and skill position players equivalent to the talent of their current line -- which I'd say is average -- would that offense be better off or worse? You can make the same case for Atlanta, as Slimm's saying. Would the Falcons really be better off with Joe Thomas instead of Julio Jones?

 

[ITS!MATEO]

Crabree to the 49ers. Nicks to the Giants. Julio Jones to Atlanta. AJ Green helped take his team to the playoffs as a rookie. That's just off the top of my head.

Seeing as the Giants are the only team you brought up being a TOP team at the time.... Your point is moot. Find some more examples please.

9'ers and Atl were not top teams at the time they drafted those players.

Jordy Nelson was drafted in the 2nd round.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

ok so your thought is if you are picking this high you should never be looking at a offensive tackle or i would assume olineman period...you'd rather go the route of a premium talent at a skill position...i get that...

but tell me this does cleveland never win and pick top 5 year in and year out pretty much cause of joe thomas or cause they have never been able to fill the qb position with a difference maker??? i mean can you see where i'm coming from here with some of this...t rich was a top talent position player who i know you endorsed a one of the top bpa in the draft period buit didn't add up to any wins...why??? cause the qb wasn't good enough or wasn't a big enough difference maker

If you're picking that high in the draft, it's not because you don't have a left tackle. That's what I'm saying.

Cleveland will win after they find a quarterback (which they may already have in my opinion), accumulate skill position talent at the TE/WR positions, and have a dominant pass rush.

That's when Cleveland will win. That's when every team will win. It doesn't matter whether Joe Thomas is there, or on the moon. It'll be irrelevant to the outcome.

 

[hoops]

You're only going have so many great players on a team. And top picks are the best way to acquire one. What the best teams do is try to make sure their top players at the most important positions. San Fran is the unique case because they have a bounty at every position but think of it this way. The Giants, I believe, have elite skill position guys on offense. If you took away those players and gave them an elite offensive line instead and skill position players equivalent to the talent of their current line -- which I'd say is average -- would that offense be better off or worse?

yeah but one of those two elite talents in victor cruz was undrafted...the bottom line is elite talent can be found anywhere...not just in the top half of round 1...although that's tough for me to swallow cause i'm bullish about bpa's when it comes to drafting...

 

[hoops]

If you're picking that high in the draft, it's not because you don't have a left tackle. That's what I'm saying.

Cleveland will win after they find a quarterback (which they may already have in my opinion), accumulate skill position talent at the TE/WR positions, and have a dominant pass rush.

That's when Cleveland will win. That's when every team will win. It doesn't matter whether Joe Thomas is there, or on the moon. It'll be irrelevant to the outcome.

they're not gonna win squat no matter what they accumulate without a high end qb...this league is all about the qb position...you can load up with nothing but all pros but if you got average under center you're gonna be nothing more than a flash in the pan...unless you come up with some gimmick o the league takes a while to catch on to...ha ha

 

[TheWalrus]

Seeing as the Giants are the only team you brought up being a TOP team at the time.... Your point is moot. Find some more examples please.

9'ers and Atl were not top teams at the time they drafted those players.

Jordy Nelson was drafted in the 2nd round.

So a team has to be great first, then take a receiver? What does that prove? The team is already great. They probably already have some pretty darn good receivers. None of it applies to us in either case because we're not even good yet, to say nothing of great.

 

[TheWalrus]

yeah but one of those two elite talents in victor cruz was undrafted...the bottom line is elite talent can be found anywhere...not just in the top half of round 1...although that's tough for me to swallow cause i'm bullish about bpa's when it comes to drafting...

The point isn't where Cruz was drafted. "You can find Tom Brady in the 6th round" isn't an argument for not taking a quarterback in the first. It's about the value of an elite player at certain positions. Your best chance of finding an elite player is with an elite pick, so use 'em on the positions that matter.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

they're not gonna win squat no matter what they accumulate without a high end qb...this league is all about the qb position...you can load up with nothing but all pros but if you got average under center you're gonna be nothing more than a flash in the pan...unless you come up with some gimmick o the league takes a while to catch on to...ha ha

Nobody is going to win without an elite quarterback, and you're not going to get one by drafting left tackles.

1. Quarterback
2. Pass Rush
3. Secondary
4. Skill Positions
5. Offensive Line


In order of priority, those are the 5 most critical components to building a contender in the NFL.

 

[ITS!MATEO]

So a team has to be great first, then take a receiver? What does that prove? The team is already great. They probably already have some pretty darn good receivers. None of it applies to us in either case because we're not even good yet, to say nothing of great.

My point was that teams that are built for the long run DO NOT take receivers with the 1st pick in the draft.

Giants built their team through the D-line then took Nicks, but that's the only example of that happening. Great teams don't usually do that. It hurts you in the long run. 1st round skill players usually command heavy contracts and take up cap space, when instead you can just get a few 4th-undrafted offensive guys for 3-5 years and build your championship team around pass rushers and your great 1st round QB.

 

[ckparrothead]

One good thing about taking Tavon Austin is it would give Ryan Tannehill a security blanket.

At Texas A&M the guy he was most comfortable with was really Ryan Swope, whom he made into a really productive player. Jeff Fuller he was comfortable with and he made into a nice 66 yards (and 0.55 TDs) per game player, but in 2010 prior to Tannehill taking over he was more like a 94 yards (and 1.17 TDs) per game player. Meanwhile Ryan Swope went from a 57 yards (and 0.17 TDs) per game player in 2010 prior to Tannehill taking over, to an 84 yards (and 0.70 TDs) per game player. Talk about a reversal of fortune.

I think in Miami the guy that kind of compares with Jeff Fuller believe it or not is Brian Hartline. They may have different physical characteristics but they had similar limitations (neither had true speed) and they run the same routes and make the same catches really well. So it makes sense that Tannehill got on with Hartline to some degree. But his man at Texas A&M was Swope and I don't think he has one here in Davone Bess. I think Swope had more pure speed and ability to challenge the deep middle. Every time Miami tried that with Bess it failed.

The Dolphins have given Ryan Tannehill a "go to" receiver in Mike Wallace that he's pretty unfamiliar with. He doesn't run the routes that Jeff Fuller or Brian Hartline did. He doesn't run the routes or play the roles that Ryan Swope or Davone Bess did. He's more like Nwachukwu, who was never a huge part of the offense at Texas A&M under Tannehill. I'm worried that you dump all these expectations associated with big money on Mike Wallace, and you end up forcing Tannehill out of his comfort zone. However, if you were to draft a Tavon Austin then you equalize things to a considerable degree. It's no longer just about the 12 million dollar man on the offense. It's also about the 12th overall pick and getting him involved. And it's also about the 6 million dollar man on the other side. It's more egalitarian, balanced, exactly the way both Joe Philbin and Ryan Tannehill probably want it.

But does it have a chance of happening?

I say...not a chance. Just my opinion.

Tyler Eifert on the other hand...I could see that happening.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

This discussion is absolutely beyond absurd.

Jeff Ireland can load up on offensive tackles with every pick for all I care. I'm just trying to tell you what the reality is. The folks that want it deserve what they get in return.

Whether Miami ever wins another game or not won't bother me. We have our sh*t together in Atlanta.

 

[ITS!MATEO]

Atlanta hasn't won anything.. All that offensive firepower and no Superbowl. Paper champs



That team will fall apart once contract time for those skill players comes around.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Atlanta hasn't won anything.. All that offensive firepower and no Superbowl. Paper champs



That team will fall apart once contract time for those skill players comes around.

Maybe so, but at least the Falcons aren't forced to watch grass grown under Davone Bess' feet.

 

[hoops]

This discussion is absolutely beyond absurd.

Jeff Ireland can load up on offensive tackles with every pick for all I care. I'm just trying to tell you what the reality is. The folks that want it deserve what they get in return.

Whether Miami ever wins another game or not won't bother me. We have our sh*t together in Atlanta.

dang..what's up with that???