Explain the "Jump" Tannehill made in 2016

[J. David Wannyheimer]

you mean the guy that you were in love with
Now everybody's laughing at you.. yes I did that to make you mad because you are thill17 lover. anything I say about thill17 u get mad...we need draft Mayfield or guy out usc.i know you going response

I admire your honesty in admitting that you're trying to troll other posters.

 

[superphin]

I find it interesting that the people who criticize Tannehill the most, never actually point out the flaws they see in his game. All we get is "he doesn't have "it"". Or, look at the team results "it must be Tannehill". There is no analysis whatsoever about what he is or is not doing on the field. Nothing about reading defenses, throwing accurately, checking to the correct play, nada. It is those things that make me believe that Tannehill is a plenty good enough QB. As others have noted, the arm talent is very very good, mobility is excellent, pre and post snap reads are also very good. What can be improved? Being quicker and more decisive in the pocket, challenging down the field more, and being a better motivator.

I see a guy that can clearly make all the throws and doesn't get fooled very often. Beginning in 2014 I saw a QB that makes some spectacular plays that only 1 or 2 other guys can make. In 2014 and 2015 he either didn't make enough of them or there weren't enough to be made to make up for the shortcomings of the team. Admittedly, many of us were projecting about what Tannehill would be like without the stinkfest around him.

In 2016, he settled into a nice grove (IMO) proving what so many of us had been saying for 2 - 3 years. Give this guy a decent chance and he will shine. There was that wonderful stretch of games where the naysayers had no choice but to STFU. The most blissful Finheaven had been in many, many years. Sadly, the injury happened and here we are again. F**K Calais Campbell. I hate that guy (and whichever scrub lineman let him through).

First let me start off by saying I apologize for my condescending tone in my previous posts.

Second here's my analysis of him. You are right he can make all the throws and has arm talent but I don't believe thats essential to being a great QB otherwise Jeff George would be a better QB than Chad Pennington. In Tannehill I see a QB who tends to hold on to the ball too long. Yes we have a terrible terrible OL but sometimes I wonder how much of it is because he seems to just stand there. Theres no sidestepping or shifting or manipulating of the pocket at least not consistently although I do believe he improved in 2016. I see a QB who is athletic but is hesitant to tuck it and run. Both Tannehill and Wilson have terrible OL. Tannehill runs a 4.6 while Wilson runs a 4.5 but it feels like Tannehill has no instincts when it comes to WHEN to run. You are athletic and fast utilize it! Wilson averages 545 yards per year on the ground while Tannehill runs for 213 per year. If he utilized it, it gives defenses something to worry about maybe dlineman have to play with more of a contained rush, maybe it opens up a few things. I see a QB who iswho needs to make faster decisions. He's been here 5 years now, he knows the oline sucks so get rid of it fast. Tom Brady gets rid of the ball in 2.49 seconds, if your Ryan Tannehill and your OL sucks you should too. I see a guy who has been in the league for 5 years and finally had his 1st winning season his 5th year. Was that an outlier or a positive sign of things to come? The fact that we can't definitively answer that going into his 7th season is disheartening.

You say Tannehill is good enough...good enough to make the playoffs? Sure maybe, I put him in the Andy Dalton/Alex Smith class...QB's who can make the playoffs with a good roster around them. The 49ers went to the Super Bowl as soon as Alex Smith ceased being the starter. Good enough to win a superbowl? He has shown 0 evidence of that as we have not seen him play in the post season yet.

How much longer would you give him? What if he plays 8 games next season gets injured for the rest of the season and has a 7-1 record...would you wait another year for him? At what point do we say, this guy is not the QBOTF.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

First let me start off by saying I apologize for my condescending tone in my previous posts.

Me too.

Second here's my analysis of him. You are right he can make all the throws and has arm talent but I don't believe thats essential to being a great QB otherwise Jeff George would be a better QB than Chad Pennington. In Tannehill I see a QB who tends to hold on to the ball too long. Yes we have a terrible terrible OL but sometimes I wonder how much of it is because he seems to just stand there. Theres no sidestepping or shifting or manipulating of the pocket at least not consistently although I do believe he improved in 2016. I see a QB who is athletic but is hesitant to tuck it and run. Both Tannehill and Wilson have terrible OL. Tannehill runs a 4.6 while Wilson runs a 4.5 but it feels like Tannehill has no instincts when it comes to WHEN to run. You are athletic and fast utilize it! Wilson averages 545 yards per year on the ground while Tannehill runs for 213 per year. If he utilized it, it gives defenses something to worry about maybe dlineman have to play with more of a contained rush, maybe it opens up a few things.

I agree to a point, but the idea that he holds onto the ball too long is just not supported by the facts. For all the years he was the most sacked QB, he was also near the top in quickest time to throw. The sacks were not due to hanging on to the ball too long. They were due to a line that missed too many blocks. I agree on the deciding to tuck it and run part. But, frankly, if that is the biggest issue with the QB, I can live with it.

I see a QB who iswho needs to make faster decisions. He's been here 5 years now, he knows the oline sucks so get rid of it fast. Tom Brady gets rid of the ball in 2.49 seconds, if your Ryan Tannehill and your OL sucks you should too.

He does. This was debated repeatedly during the 2012 - 2014 seasons. Several sites list time to throw numbers. Tannehill was regularly among the quickest to throw the ball. Here is an example:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/signature-stat-snapshot-time-to-throw

These were the fastest mid way through the 2012 season:

28 Ben Roethlisberger PIT 316 2.56
29 Blaine Gabbert JAX 271 2.51
30 Peyton Manning DEN 304 2.5
31 Ryan Tannehill MIA 261 2.48
32 Philip Rivers SD 285 2.43
33 Kevin Kolb ARZ 217 2.28

Here is another article from 2013 showing that the bulk of the sacks of Tannehill were "short sacks".

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/under-pressure/2013/under-pressure-sack-breakdowns

"Dolphins quarterback Ryan Tannehill has been sacked 17 times (53.1 percent) on short sacks, 12 times (37.5 percent) on medium sacks and three times (9.4 percent) on long sacks. It’s a pretty clear sign that the Dolphins sack problems (and they are significant problems) are the line’s fault, and not the fault of wide receivers failing to get open or a quarterback who holds the ball too long."

Here is another article describing the pass blocking disaster that was Bryant McKinnie in 2013:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/under-pressure/2013/under-pressure-mckinnies-woes

"McKinnie has some bad tape, and this past week was the worst yet. He had a four-sack fiasco against the Bills that left Miami's playoff chances in jeopardy, knocked their starting quarterback Ryan Tannehill out of the lineup and leaves the Jets likely salivating at their chance to throw a variety of speed rushers at McKinnie."

Another article from 2013:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/under-pressure/2013/under-pressure-dolphins-woes-protection

"Sometimes you'll see a young quarterback drag down his offensive line by holding on to the ball too long, but don’t think that Tannehill is part of the problem. The Dolphins quarterback has been sacked in less than three seconds on 20 of the Dolphins 24 sacks. And only two of the Dolphins 24 sacks have taken longer than 3.1 seconds.

Martin has the worst sacks allowed percentage in the NFL after the first five weeks of the season. Clabo is third-worst. Guard Jerry is 16th.

No other team has three of the bottom 20, although the Steelers acquisition of Levi Brown means that Pittsburgh now has two of the bottom 10 (with Brown and Mike Adams, the player Brown is replacing)."

Think about that. A 2nd year QB was being protected by two of the three WORST TACKLES IN THE LEAGUE. His interior blocking wasn't much better.

Although I can't find them now, there were articles in 2014 as well that showed Tannehill being among the quickest to release the ball.

I see a guy who has been in the league for 5 years and finally had his 1st winning season his 5th year. Was that an outlier or a positive sign of things to come? The fact that we can't definitively answer that going into his 7th season is disheartening.

You say Tannehill is good enough...good enough to make the playoffs? Sure maybe, I put him in the Andy Dalton/Alex Smith class...QB's who can make the playoffs with a good roster around them. The 49ers went to the Super Bowl as soon as Alex Smith ceased being the starter. Good enough to win a superbowl? He has shown 0 evidence of that as we have not seen him play in the post season yet.

How much longer would you give him? What if he plays 8 games next season gets injured for the rest of the season and has a 7-1 record...would you wait another year for him? At what point do we say, this guy is not the QBOTF.

To rest I say, I see a TEAM that hasn't been good enough for the last 5 years. The time to decide that he is not the QBOTF is when it is obvious that HE is the weak link. That can only be determined by watching the games and evaluating how well everybody is doing their jobs. That is what the coaches do. Every coach we have had so far has come to the same conclusion as me. Gase re-affirmed it yesterday.

 

[AL R]

First let me start off by saying I apologize for my condescending tone in my previous posts.

Second here's my analysis of him. You are right he can make all the throws and has arm talent but I don't believe thats essential to being a great QB otherwise Jeff George would be a better QB than Chad Pennington. In Tannehill I see a QB who tends to hold on to the ball too long. Yes we have a terrible terrible OL but sometimes I wonder how much of it is because he seems to just stand there. Theres no sidestepping or shifting or manipulating of the pocket at least not consistently although I do believe he improved in 2016. I see a QB who is athletic but is hesitant to tuck it and run. Both Tannehill and Wilson have terrible OL. Tannehill runs a 4.6 while Wilson runs a 4.5 but it feels like Tannehill has no instincts when it comes to WHEN to run. You are athletic and fast utilize it! Wilson averages 545 yards per year on the ground while Tannehill runs for 213 per year. If he utilized it, it gives defenses something to worry about maybe dlineman have to play with more of a contained rush, maybe it opens up a few things. I see a QB who iswho needs to make faster decisions. He's been here 5 years now, he knows the oline sucks so get rid of it fast. Tom Brady gets rid of the ball in 2.49 seconds, if your Ryan Tannehill and your OL sucks you should too. I see a guy who has been in the league for 5 years and finally had his 1st winning season his 5th year. Was that an outlier or a positive sign of things to come? The fact that we can't definitively answer that going into his 7th season is disheartening.

You say Tannehill is good enough...good enough to make the playoffs? Sure maybe, I put him in the Andy Dalton/Alex Smith class...QB's who can make the playoffs with a good roster around them. The 49ers went to the Super Bowl as soon as Alex Smith ceased being the starter. Good enough to win a superbowl? He has shown 0 evidence of that as we have not seen him play in the post season yet.

How much longer would you give him? What if he plays 8 games next season gets injured for the rest of the season and has a 7-1 record...would you wait another year for him? At what point do we say, this guy is not the QBOTF.

As you pointed out he improved moving around in the pocket in 2016, actually each year he kinda improved no? I want to see it through with a decent ol, not perfect and a semblance of running game.

That is not to say Im against drafting another QB as Grier pointed out but the main ones will be off the board early so if Gase identifies who he wants to or think he can groom a little later that’s fine by me.

The defense will need to play a little better also and hopefully force a few more turnovers- an improved offense will help some. How many slow starts on Offense have we had both with and without Ryan?

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

He does. This was debated repeatedly during the 2012 - 2014 seasons. Several sites list time to throw numbers. Tannehill was regularly among the quickest to throw the ball. Here is an example:

If you can go back to the 2013 season, I posted a thread where we went blow by blow through every sack. I'm sure it's still there. Tyson Clabo was a complete nightmare up through the Ravens game. He was allowing unimpeded runs at the quarterback about twice a game, on average.

 

[lurking]

Me too.



I agree to a point, but the idea that he holds onto the ball too long is just not supported by the facts. For all the years he was the most sacked QB, he was also near the top in quickest time to throw. The sacks were not due to hanging on to the ball too long. They were due to a line that missed too many blocks. I agree on the deciding to tuck it and run part. But, frankly, if that is the biggest issue with the QB, I can live with it.



He does. This was debated repeatedly during the 2012 - 2014 seasons. Several sites list time to throw numbers. Tannehill was regularly among the quickest to throw the ball. Here is an example:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/signature-stat-snapshot-time-to-throw

These were the fastest mid way through the 2012 season:

28 Ben Roethlisberger PIT 316 2.56
29 Blaine Gabbert JAX 271 2.51
30 Peyton Manning DEN 304 2.5
31 Ryan Tannehill MIA 261 2.48
32 Philip Rivers SD 285 2.43
33 Kevin Kolb ARZ 217 2.28

Here is another article from 2013 showing that the bulk of the sacks of Tannehill were "short sacks".

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/under-pressure/2013/under-pressure-sack-breakdowns



Here is another article describing the pass blocking disaster that was Bryant McKinnie in 2013:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/under-pressure/2013/under-pressure-mckinnies-woes



Another article from 2013:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/under-pressure/2013/under-pressure-dolphins-woes-protection



Think about that. A 2nd year QB was being protected by two of the three WORST TACKLES IN THE LEAGUE. His interior blocking wasn't much better.

Although I can't find them now, there were articles in 2014 as well that showed Tannehill being among the quickest to release the ball.



To rest I say, I see a TEAM that hasn't been good enough for the last 5 years. The time to decide that he is not the QBOTF is when it is obvious that HE is the weak link. That can only be determined by watching the games and evaluating how well everybody is doing their jobs. That is what the coaches do. Every coach we have had so far has come to the same conclusion as me. Gase re-affirmed it yesterday.

Nice post Finfan