Fiedler Haters

[BSQX4]

Ross, how hard is it to have a 60% completion rate when every pass is a dump off to the back. You pick one stat and go with it. I'm NOT a Fiedler hater but I know football and have been watching and analyzing the game for over 30 years. Jay wins alot of games but he's on a quality team with a great defense. Yes, he does have a weak arm, he is not a pinpoint passer by a longshot and he doesn't hit the deep ball hardly ever. Almost every game he commits a bonehead error that costs us either a key posession or the game itself. In games that really matter at the end of the season he's not at his best, face it guy, he is in the bottom tier of active Q.B.s. On top of that he gets hurt every year. So is he really who you want leading your team into battle? The guy has heart and he would do anything to win included running through a Safety to get a touchdown. (see the Buffalo game) You got to love him for those things but if you take a really honest look we could use an upgrade at Q.B. That's reality. Maybe Feeleys the man but I'm starting to get concerned that Jay will start this year. With a better line and David Boston believe me I'll root for him but in the harsh light of day he's in the bottom third talent wise in the N.F.L. Argue all you want but the shortcomings I pointed out are real and what does two straight years out of the Playoffs tell you?

 

[Shula Fan]

The Fiedler discussion has been beaten to death.

 

[Ross]

Ross, how hard is it to have a 60% completion rate when every pass is a dump off to the back. You pick one stat and go with it. I'm NOT a Fiedler hater but I know football and have been watching and analyzing the game for over 30 years. Jay wins alot of games but he's on a quality team with a great defense. Yes, he does have a weak arm, he is not a pinpoint passer by a longshot and he doesn't hit the deep ball hardly ever. Almost every game he commits a bonehead error that costs us either a key posession or the game itself. In games that really matter at the end of the season he's not at his best, face it guy, he is in the bottom tier of active Q.B.s. On top of that he gets hurt every year. So is he really who you want leading your team into battle? The guy has heart and he would do anything to win included running through a Safety to get a touchdown. (see the Buffalo game) You got to love him for those things but if you take a really honest look we could use an upgrade at Q.B. That's reality. Maybe Feeleys the man but I'm starting to get concerned that Jay will start this year. With a better line and David Boston believe me I'll root for him but in the harsh light of day he's in the bottom third talent wise in the N.F.L. Argue all you want but the shortcomings I pointed out are real and what does two straight years out of the Playoffs tell you?

C'mon man. every pass is not a dump-off to the back. The reason I'm running with that stat is because it indicates 2 things. Enough accuracy that the Reciever can catch the ball and solid decision making. Sure he makes errors. No doubt about it. But every QB makes bad decisions during a game. And if he was making errors that costs us either a key posession or the game itself Miami wouldn't have as many wins' with him under center than it does. I'm not saying I'm satisfied with his QB play last year, because I wasn't. But you have to at least give the man a break and say the oline sucked so bad that even with a much more accurate QB (griese) we couldn't win. That's what 2 straight years missing the playoffs tells me.

Having said all that, I still hope AJ beats Jay out in the preseason because jay doesn't hit the long bomb and he hardly ever hits the WR in stride. But fans should give the devil his due and realize he he isn't the worst QB in the world. We had one WR, one TE, and one back for the D's to worry about. Combine that with a worthless Oline and you tell me how many QB's out there would have shined in those circumstances. IMO, not many...

--Ross

 

[Finsflurry]

FF, note you put the emphasis on the skilled positions..we weren't that bad in that area last year...but how many carries did it take for Ricky to get 1300 yards, What happen to Griese time and time again when he went back to pass. As a matter of fact remember the game we lost when he fumbled after getting hit from the back side. This whole thing starts up front..Peyton wouldn't have hit anyone in stride if he couldn't set his feet and throw, we've prove that when our D gets all over him, when our rush was on, Peyton wasn't that effective and that's why we've beating him most of the time. If he has good time to throw, then yes he will pick us apart..but stop picturing him behind his OL and put him behind the OL we had last year and you may have seen a different Manning. Just my opinion, but success on O generally start with the OL...Can't break it down much more than that. Remember Jay had Ricky, he play faked to him a lot, and they were pretty good play fakes imo, but the OL couldn't hold long enough for him to turn around and throw..

So what you're basically saying is that Peyton Manning couldn't lead us farther than Jay Fiedler??? Whatever man, you have your opinion and I have mine but I can't really take your opinion seriously as I think your're way off base.

How do you attack every QB in the league? You get pressure on him. You don't need it on every play you just need enough to rattle them and prevent them from getting a rhythm. You get pressure on Manning or anybody else 65% of the time (except maybe Tarkenton) and they're not leading anybody to a Superbowl.

See above...but Peyton would have led us farther than Jay the past few years here IMO.

is it really you rick...no wonder you support feeley so much. :roflmao: just kidding man, i just wonder why you are sooo ready to hand the reigns over to this guy when fiedler has won so many games

Are you mental? Jay has won maybe 3 games in his whole career, he's been the winning qb but most we won in spite of him IMO...why don't you give someone else the same chance Fiedler got? Is he that good to you?

 

[MDFINFAN]

So what you're basically saying is that Peyton Manning couldn't lead us farther than Jay Fiedler...???? Whatever man, you have your opinion and I have mine but I can't really take your opinion seriously as I think your're way off base.

FF that all this whole discussion is about, opinions, I think a QB without a good OL can't really be affective, you think just because he's star QB that's enough to lead us..I tried showing how Warner, Collins, and BG went down hill when their OL's didn't play like usual, which use to be good to great, once they played avg or like our last year's OL, those QB's didn't look at good. I think Peyton has a better arm than Jay and is more accurate, but if he doesn't have the time to display those skills, check out our games against Peyton when we were all over him..no different from Jay in accuracy department..int's were up.. I understand your points from a skills position, but I think it still starts up front and no I don't think we would like been any better last year with Manning, especially if he missed the same games that Jay did and BG came in, and then back to Manning. Think about this, this is a non scrambling QB and he didn't get hurt. How did he survive? It's call a good OL my man...plain and simply.

 

[Finsflurry]

FF that all this whole discussion is about, opinions, I think a QB without a good OL can't really be affective, you think just because he's star QB that's enough to lead us..I tried showing how Warner, Collins, and BG went down hill when their OL's didn't play like usual, which use to be good to great, once they played avg or like our last year's OL, those QB's didn't look at good. I think Peyton has a better arm than Jay and is more accurate, but if he doesn't have the time to display those skills, check out our games against Peyton when we were all over him..no different from Jay in accuracy department..int's were up.. I understand your points from a skills position, but I think it still starts up front and no I don't think we would like been any better last year with Manning, especially if he missed the same games that Jay did and BG came in, and then back to Manning. Think about this, this is a non scrambling QB and he didn't get hurt. How did he survive? It's call a good OL my man...plain and simply.

I understand what you're trying to say and I respect your opinion, sorry if it came out wrong. But i feel that all those plays that Jay could not take advantage of, maybe 4 or 5 plays a game I feel a player like Manning would have connected on and in all fairness, we've only been a couple plays away the last couple years, change a few of those and our season is completely different. Like the Houston game from last year, Manning throws a much better out and Coleman wouldn't have picked that ball off...the NE game in OT Manning would not have underthrown Chambers that bad and probably would have hit him for the GW touchdown...just a couple of games but with those wins we might have taken the division and who knows what would have happened.

My whole point is a player like Manning does so much more for you than just complete passes, he changes the way the whole game is played just like Ricky does...with those 2 on the same field it changes the defense's whole perception. You think the defense would have been blitzing all the time knowing we have Peyton back there to burn them instead of Jay whom they have never feared? The defense would have to respect the pass merely because of his prescence, just like the defense has to respect the run just because of Ricky's prescence, it doesn't matter if he's rushed for 10 yards or 150 they respect him just the same... it also would have opened up tons of room for Ricky as they could not consistently stack 8-9 in the box with Peyton back there...use whatever o-line excuse you want, Manning's skill combined with Ricky Randy Chris and the defense would have been enough to overcome it IMO.

 

[Ross]

I understand what you're trying to say and I respect your opinion, sorry if it came out wrong. But i feel that all those plays that Jay could not take advantage of, maybe 4 or 5 plays a game I feel a player like Manning would have connected on and in all fairness, we've only been a couple plays away the last couple years, change a few of those and our season is completely different. Like the Houston game from last year, Manning throws a much better out and Coleman wouldn't have picked that ball off...the NE game in OT Manning would not have underthrown Chambers that bad and probably would have hit him for the GW touchdown...just a couple of games but with those wins we might have taken the division and who knows what would have happened.

My whole point is a player like Manning does so much more for you than just complete passes, he changes the way the whole game is played just like Ricky does...with those 2 on the same field it changes the defense's whole perception. You think the defense would have been blitzing all the time knowing we have Peyton back there to burn them instead of Jay whom they have never feared? The defense would have to respect the pass merely because of his prescence, just like the defense has to respect the run just because of Ricky's prescence, it doesn't matter if he's rushed for 10 yards or 150 they respect him just the same... it also would have opened up tons of room for Ricky as they could not consistently stack 8-9 in the box with Peyton back there...use whatever o-line excuse you want, Manning's skill combined with Ricky Randy Chris and the defense would have been enough to overcome it IMO.

No doubt that Manning is a better QB than virtually everyone else in the league. But lets not forget we are comparing Jay to the very best. How mnay other QB's come out on the losing side when compared to Manning? All of them? In fairness how many other QB's could have played behind our line and done better? IMO not many...

--Ross

 

[Finsflurry]

No doubt that Manning is a better QB than virtually everyone else in the league. But lets not forget we are comparing Jay to the very best. How mnay other QB's come out on the losing side when compared to Manning? All of them? In fairness how many other QB's could have played behind our line and done better? IMO not many...

--Ross

That's not what we're talking about, some of you were saying Manning would not have got farther than Jay did and I took issue with that...IMO with last year's line Favre, Manning, McNair or Vick could have led us to a SB, but in 2002 I think a lot of qb's in this league could have done it (McNabb, Pennington, Brady, etc.)

 

[Ross]

That's not what we're talking about, some of you were saying Manning would not have got farther than Jay did and I took issue with that...IMO with last year's line Favre, Manning, McNair or Vick could have led us to a SB, but in 2002 I think a lot of qb's in this league could have done it (McNabb, Pennington, Brady, etc.)

Well I still don't think Manning, farve, or Mcnair could have last year. All three had better tools to work with and none got to the SB despite having decent D's. And Vick was hurt...

--Ross

 

[Finsflurry]

Well I still don't think Manning, farve, or Mcnair could have last year. All three had better tools to work with and none got to the SB despite having decent D's. And Vick was hurt...

--Ross

Only McNair had a great defense, only Favre had a great RB (who is still worse than Ricky IMO), Favre and McNair had decent recievers, Peyton had absolutely no defense whatsoever, and only Favre's line could be considered "great." Again, I think we were only a couple plays away the last couple years and any of those qb's IMO could have delivered them for us, it's a matter of opinion I guess but I know I'm not alone.

 

[pigskinguy]

being that i am new to these boards i didnt know it was talked about.

My apologies, didn't take the time to look at the amount of post you have. It has been talk about alot here. And it seems some people still don't get it. Sorry for yelling at you dude. :D And welcome aboard.

 

[CrunchTime]

The Feidler subject may have been beaten to death but its still drawing more posts than any other current topic.

 

[enigmatics]

That's not what we're talking about, some of you were saying Manning would not have got farther than Jay did and I took issue with that...IMO with last year's line Favre, Manning, McNair or Vick could have led us to a SB, but in 2002 I think a lot of qb's in this league could have done it (McNabb, Pennington, Brady, etc.)

Hold the phone.............you think Favre, Manning or McNair could've gotten us to the SB playing behind that line last year?

:lolcry: :lolcry:

 

[rafael]

See above...but Peyton would have led us farther than Jay the past few years here IMO.

JF is pretty good at play action, so while Manning maybe the best play action QB, the diff between the two isn't significant enough to reasonably believe that Manning's PA would afford him more time in the pocket. Further, Manning is much less mobile than JF, so odds are that he would have even less time.

There may be many QBs in the league that have better arms than JF, but none of those would take us any further lying on their back. And the more immobile they are, the greater the likelihood that they wouldn't even take us as far.

 

[FIN-IN-RI]

Hold the phone.............you think Favre, Manning or McNair could've gotten us to the SB playing behind that line last year?

:lolcry: :lolcry:

I actually think that the line would have looked a lot better with any of those QBs playing. Actually I Know it would have.