How far can Fiedler take us??

[BATMAN]

Jay is too limited and limits the offense so much that he will never be the starter on a Superbowl team. His biggest problems are his accuracy, his arm strength, and his instincts.

But besides that, he has all the tools bo be great!!

Thanks krisback, you summed it up very well.

 

[Mr.Murder]

Fiedler is servicable when he doesn't take big hits. Trestman offense features the short pass so the decision making has to occur at an accelerated pace.

If he thinks on his feet, makes quick reads, and is decisive he can work. Trestman's o can click- Kosar's Browns heyday, a consultant on the Montana Chiefs team I believe, and then Gannon's MVP season.

But if the QB is hesitant and the line play is bad (Oakland last year) it can snowball to new lows. Let's see the D keep things secure and the QB be quick and Ricky still gets reps. Williams should look at the change as a challenge and an opportunity to prove his skills as an all around back realised. His work effort physically confirms this fact. The mental approach should be ready as well!


Fiedler has some mobility, which when Gannon was good he displayed, smart QB play is the key to a Trest set, and a mobile QB adds new dimension. Not a runner per se but someone who buys enough time to avoid the big mistake or big loss and complements the scheme.

The new Phins QB fits this mold, perhaps Griese can as well having been in a West COast O with Shanny and having a great pass catch TE. Griese used Sharp as a relief valve and showed promise for that with McMichael then the O line vanished and all of the QB's game did.

Feeley still is the pick to most likely to succeed with this, each fits the profile for Trest-Coast offense in some regards,AJ the most overall.

 

[RevRick]

Because the "players" brought in to "compete" with him were:
A. Worse than he is.
B. Utterly ignored.
C. Injured before he was.
D. All of the above.

Jay has shown that he is capable of winning:
A. If everything goes right
B. If nothing goes wrong, and most things go right, and
C. If some things go wrong, and most things go right.

We won't even address if everything goes wrong - not even Danny or Elway could dig their teams out of the "on any given Sunday" scenario.

But, if more things go wrong than go right, Jay has not demonstrated the consistent capacity to elevate his play enough to make a difference in the outcome of the game. It has appeared over the past four years, that someone else has elevated his game (OG, Ricky, or even Lamar Smith) which has pulled the team out of the fire, and occasionally, Jay will pull one out. But, when it is totally on the line - Win or Lose relies completely on the QB - Jay is not capable of taking the team on his shoulders and taking charge and moving out unless the tenor of the game changes completely. That alone is enough to warrant looking for another player at QB. Is Feeley that player - perhaps. Will Dave play him - unless leaned on, I doubt it. Dave is trying to "not lose" games. He never took the Nathan Bedford Forrest course in how to win - either games or battles. That almost dictates the safe course, and the use of a QB that will give him a comfort zone, but will be almost totally lacking in big play capacity. I keep hoping that the line about having a QB competition this year is valid, but I have doubts about Dave living into that. He will put the game into the hands of the D no matter how long it has been on the field, insteading of taking a chance and doing something bold, if he follows historical precedent.

Therefore, unless forced by higher authority to play the younger QB with more potential than experience, he will return to form and play the more experienced and limited QB, and we will be either 9-7 or 10-6 if we are lucky, and perhaps have a short time in the playoffs. Then next year, when the D is a year older, and a lot of players are going to have to be replaced there, we will begin this process again - more than likely with someone else at the helm.

In other words, I don't believe Jay will take this team to the Super Bowl unless he has an epiphany from the Hall of Fame. There is the possibility, though, if all of the intangibles which are coming into play this season (the O line, David Boston, the young other WR's, and a gamble that the D hasn't already lost a step, or at least a very good player) go right, that the team could take him to the Super Bowl whether he is behind center or not.

 

[FIN-IN-RI]

Oh, so now we're looking at just the three crappy games that Peyton had one of TD's two years? Why not just say that we can only look at 2003 weeks 4 and 16 (New Orleans and Atlanta -- 11 combined TDs to 0 INT).

AS for STATS if I wasn't at work i could take the time and show you why you can't compare Jay and Peyton just in terms of yardage thrown. Peyton LEADS Indy he has to make the big plays. All Jay has to do is MANAGE the team and he can't even do that without f-ing up, its not like the guy has to put the team on his shoulders like Peyton does..

I forgot that Jay cloned himself five times and played QB and OL last year, too. That must be what you're saying since you're dragging RW into this...

im just dragging RW into it because it kills me to have this man on our roster..Whilst i sit and watch him throw duck after duck over recievers heads and commit TO after freakin TO while RW busts his a--.

BTW, you mean the Patriots were raping all four of PM's WR targets plus EJ plus Marcus Pollard?

When the ball was in the air heading for a reciever TE, WR or anyone i saw a "few" critical interference/holding penalties that were not called. The penalties occured after Peyton threw to his target.

How again did this spectacular Patriots team you're building up just barely beat a Panthers team that looked like this team should have looked (and hopefully would have if it had a decent line)?

i dont get what your saying here, there are a thousand reasons why the patsies won that game, one of them being the blatant (pats)holding on the last drive by indy.

Second edit: If I threw up 237 yards, 1 TD, and 4 INT against the Patriots and 230 yards, 0 TD, and 2 INT against them, which one would you attribute to Jay? I bet you'd guess wrong unless you actually did your homework on the way week 7 and the AFC Championship game played out.

didnt do my HW at all (no time), if i did i probably wouldn't be having this discussion

Yeah, comparing these two guys is like comparing a hunk of cheese to a tiger, all right...

yes you are correct..

 

[juniorseau55]

Jay Fiedler can take a team to the Super Bowl and win. Is it this team? Maybe not. Then again, I'm not sold that this is a Super Bowl team with a top-10 QB.

I would think that the Baltimore Ravens with Trent Dilfer would shut this sort of debate right down.

I have to burst your bubble but...

1. A Quarterback who isn't durable will not take anyone to a Championship Game.
2. A Quarterback who isn't consistent from game to game will not take anyone to a Championship Game.
3. A Quarterback who can't take the load on his shoulders when everything else isn't working can't take anyone to the SuperBowl.
4. Fiedler has yet to have a successful Season.


As for Trent Dilfer..

Trent played consistent and exceptionally well that season obviously and was available when he was needed.

 

[Jimmy James]

AS for STATS if I wasn't at work i could take the time and show you why you can't compare Jay and Peyton just in terms of yardage thrown. Peyton LEADS Indy he has to make the big plays. All Jay has to do is MANAGE the team and he can't even do that without f-ing up, its not like the guy has to put the team on his shoulders like Peyton does..

Just because I'm making one valid comparison doesn't mean I think Jay and Peyton were identical twins separated at birth. Of course Peyton has to do more. That is why I said Peyton is the better and more talented QB.

 

[Jimmy James]

I have to burst your bubble but...

1. A Quarterback who isn't durable will not take anyone to a Championship Game.
2. A Quarterback who isn't consistent from game to game will not take anyone to a Championship Game.
3. A Quarterback who can't take the load on his shoulders when everything else isn't working can't take anyone to the SuperBowl.
4. Fiedler has yet to have a successful Season.


As for Trent Dilfer..

Trent played consistent and exceptionally well that season obviously and was available when he was needed.

Would you have pegged Dilfer as a consistent, durable QB with the ability to play "exceptionally well" based on his history in the league? I think that is the question here.

That list of yours doesn't hold up because you can find examples of guys who have failed at each of the three things you list and still made it to the Super Bowl. You might say that Jay has failed at all 3, but look back to the Dilfer comparison. Why not keep him around and let him have a shot to prove he is worthy to start when cutting him saves only $5k?

 

[KB21]

Fiedler is servicable when he doesn't take big hits. Trestman offense features the short pass so the decision making has to occur at an accelerated pace.

If he thinks on his feet, makes quick reads, and is decisive he can work. Trestman's o can click- Kosar's Browns heyday, a consultant on the Montana Chiefs team I believe, and then Gannon's MVP season.

But if the QB is hesitant and the line play is bad (Oakland last year) it can snowball to new lows. Let's see the D keep things secure and the QB be quick and Ricky still gets reps. Williams should look at the change as a challenge and an opportunity to prove his skills as an all around back realised. His work effort physically confirms this fact. The mental approach should be ready as well!


Fiedler has some mobility, which when Gannon was good he displayed, smart QB play is the key to a Trest set, and a mobile QB adds new dimension. Not a runner per se but someone who buys enough time to avoid the big mistake or big loss and complements the scheme.

The new Phins QB fits this mold, perhaps Griese can as well having been in a West COast O with Shanny and having a great pass catch TE. Griese used Sharp as a relief valve and showed promise for that with McMichael then the O line vanished and all of the QB's game did.

Feeley still is the pick to most likely to succeed with this, each fits the profile for Trest-Coast offense in some regards,AJ the most overall.

Why are you intimating that this will be Marc Trestman's offense? He's coming in as the quarterback's coach only. This will be Joel Collier's offense, and his base offense will be the same that Norv Turner ran. Which means, the Dolphins will be looking to throw the ball down the field. Trying to dink and dunk the ball around negates the team's greatest offensive weapon. Ricky Williams. You cannot have a power running attack with a dinky passing game. You have to throw the ball vertically to have the power running attack at his best.

What the Dolphins want in a quarterback is a guy who can manage the game off the play action pass and make the plays that are there. This is more of a 5-7 step drop offense than a 3 step drop like the WCO. We aren't going to become a team that throws it 35-40 times a game like the Raiders did, while totally neglecting the running game.

This is why Feeley was brought in. Rick Spielman knew that he needed to get a pocket passer who could make the downfield throws, and that's what he got in Feeley. This is not going to be a form of the Bill Walsh WCO. This is going to be the same base offense as the Norv Turner scheme.

 

[T-Bone]

If Wanny still thinks that Fiedler is the future than this organization is just spinning its wheels. Jay just doesnt have what it takes to get it done for a full season. I would not mind if he did but lets be real. Jay should only be here to help AJ get acclamated and serve as a short term backup. I like Jays fire and respect him for leadership but we need a solid durable qb that can air it out, especially with the reciever corp that we are building.

 

[MDFINFAN]

Interesting threat, I see the same ol blame Jay for every lose, credit the D with every win. Hmmm..maybe we all should go back and look at every game the last 4 years. I think we all would be surprised. To answer the question, yes Jay could carry us to the SB and if our OL is good, so can AJ, but Jay would get us there now with the least problems at the begining of the season, AJ would kick in about game 4.

 

[enigmatics]

Fiedler v. Manning
:roflmao:
:roflmao:

That is an insanely disgusting comparison..peyton is a pure passer with skill and ability Feidler could bearly dream of. Indy never had a defense and one could argue, never had a real coach until Dungy came along. Peyton and Jay's situations are completely different, and that one playoff win was led by Lamar Smith and almost lost by Fiedler.

Anyway, the way this team is set up the QB of this team leads with his arm and ability something Fiedler does not have, and hopefully Feeley provides. Fiedler may have a good W/L record, but those were team wins maybe one or 2 of them were because fiedler could move his *** like a worm in the pocket, but ill tell ya, it wasnt because of his "quaterback" -ing.

Of course it's a legit comparison .............. They're both QB's regardless of different talent levels. Peyton Manning hadn't won a playoff game till last year.............what makes him so special he shouldn't be compared????? You give absolutely no reasons whatsoever........... Who cares if Manning dominates him in pure passing and all that jazz, it didn't do squat for them in the postseason up until last year and that's AFTER he got a new head coach, a whole new defense yada yada yada.......

It's a team sport guys get it thru your thick-*** skulls. QB's that can take over a game single handedly and win seasons are few and far between.........better get used to it otherwise you'll be writing more of these ridiculous posts about who should and shouldn't be our QB.

 

[enigmatics]

Trent played consistent and exceptionally well that season obviously and was available when he was needed.

Define "exceptionally well" ..............please......... I'd love to hear it.

 

[juniorseau55]

Would you have pegged Dilfer as a consistent, durable QB with the ability to play "exceptionally well" based on his history in the league? I think that is the question here.

That list of yours doesn't hold up because you can find examples of guys who have failed at each of the three things you list and still made it to the Super Bowl. You might say that Jay has failed at all 3, but look back to the Dilfer comparison. Why not keep him around and let him have a shot to prove he is worthy to start when cutting him saves only $5k?

Ya another fielder defender. Can you name me those qb's please?

Dilfer didn't make those boneheaded mistakes that Fiedler makes to lose games. There is a reason why he was liked over there in Baltimore during his reign as a one year player later to go to seattle. He made few mistakes and played well during Baltimores championship year. Everyone knows that already.

 

[Jimmy James]

Let's start with Jim Kelly in 1992 for durability.

Let's go with Jake Delhomme for consistency. I doubt you consider 96 yards and 2 INT (Tampa) vs. 362 yards and 2 TD (Tennessee) to be consistent play.

Dilfer is a classic example of a quarterback a team couldn't rely on to take the team on his shoulders, despite what you seem to inaccurately remember about that 8-start stretch of his plus the playoffs.

Those are just off the top of my head, too. :)

Oh, another thing...Fiedler defender is not a slur in my book. Name me a single four year starter for the Dolphins that gets as little respect as he does since you're all about this "name me" thing. A tiny little bit of me would actually love to see some people get their way and have the team crash and burn to 4-12 with a guy like Collins at the helm just to see if people would wise up about Fiedler. If that ever does happen, you will know I take a small amount of comfort in it even while I am mourning the good old days like everybody else would be.

 

[R_t_Kraken]

I am starting to think I am in the minority about not thinking Feidler can do the job. My opinion is that this team, with Fiedler as the starter, would be hard pressed to get past the second round. But I get the feeling alot of people think Fiedler is good enought to take the Phins to the Super Bowl. Putting all our feeling for our beloved team aside......How far do you think Feidler can take the Miami Dolphins? Just wondering what the majority thinks.

Fiedler is a good QB. Not great.. But good. I believe Fiedler has the ability to take us all the way with the weapons and protection he now has. If we see Fiedler at the helm again. He will seem like an entirely different guy from the Fiedler we saw throughout the 2003 season.

If you compare Fiedler to the rest of the starting QBs around the league. I bet you would only think of a handful that are better. Not just in statistics. But all around ability to run the offense. He's not nearly as bad as a lot of these dolfans seem to think he is IMO.