Anything is possible, but I doubt it was made with strong objection by Philbin and Coyle...some of you act like Vontae was a Pro Bowler....he was not, in fact he had lost his job.
How the Vontae Davis trade went down
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i think that the burden of proof is on you to show Philbin had a say in it.
Spesh
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I think Zounds has honestly forgotten the original post. In the past, ive found that when he begins taking shots at posters he usually gets less and less rational about what posts actually contain.
His only "proof" is Jeff Ireland stating that Jeff Ireland works with Philbin while they are part of the Miami Dolphins. Nothing specific about Philbins role in this deal. Which makes sense, as it was Ireland who did this deal.
I did show that. Have you not been reading the thread? Ireland himself in a video interview done today confirmed that. I posted the link to the interview here. Here it is again: http://www.miamidolphins.com/media/...is-Trade/4143789a-b678-44ab-ab4f-ab46e95fa92a
---------- Post added at 05:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:56 PM ----------
Sorry, but when Ireland says he worked with Philbin on a trade, I beleive it. And that doesnt take away from the fact that you said there was evidence that Ireland acted alone. As Ive asked 4 times now, where is this evidence? When you talk out of your ass, Im'm gonna call you on it.
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Spesh
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Again: original post, job description, job responsbility. We have a detailed account of the trade process and you are on here screaming "Nuh-uh! Thats not true! This was because Philbin made fun of Vontae!" and for "proof" you have a vague account of Ireland confirming that he does indeed work next to Philbin(as if thats not obvious). There is absolutely nothing that says Philbin had any role whatsoever in this trade other then a conversation he might or might not have had with Ireland.
But wait! The burden of proof is on me to discover Philbin's knowledge, feelings, ignorance, and/or motivations. You were so shocked by the possibility of Ireland doing his job you called it "going rogue!". Ireland runs this roster, he agrees to trades, and we have a detailed account of him(acting alone) negotiating with the Colts GM and/or owner. Its up to you to provide any sort of evidence as to Philbins role in the trade. Instead, you keep insisting that we just dont know every single conversation that occurs in the Miami Dolphins front office that means Philbin drove this thing. Lack of evidence is NOT evidence, and im going to keep cracking up while you make a fool of yourself over that fact.
Ok I will dumb it down for you: As Ive already said twice, I never disagreed with Armando's account of the trade negotiations (although his source is most likeley Jeff Ireland, who you even said cannot be a source in this matter). What I've disagreed with is your assesment that Philbin had no involvement, and I have provided yo with a link that shows Ireland commenting specifically on the Vontae davis trade said "Joe, collectively with his staff, and I, discussed it throughout the negotiations". You then said there is evidence that Ireland acted by himself without Philbin's input, and Ive asked you for that evidence 5 times now. So lets have it....
There it is. YOU believe it. A lot of the things these guys say are for obvious PR reasons. I am not going to get into who is right or wrong here in this argument, but I will say that anyone outside of this doesn't really know how much or how little input the HC has in these kinds of decisions. All you can do is go upon previous history. It was said that Ireland is in charge of all Miami Dolphins football operations when he came aboard. They specifically wanted to find a coach that would agree to that. Hence why coaches like Harbaugh and Fisher wanted no part of what was going on here and why, to save face, Sparano wanted a clause in his deal that would give him some 'say' in personnel matters after the Harbaugh debacle. I think Armando even mentioned that the school of thought from PARCELLS (which we know is Irelands god) is to have anyone on the trade block regardless of who they are. I would think that goes against the Packer school of thought, but I may be wrong about that.
Overall, no one can state any hardcore facts since no one was physically there, unless you've got the place bugged. However, based upon the perception through their actions this franchise has given off, despite the PR talk, you'd have to think that decisions regarding players generally come from Ireland and may or may not have a small sprinkle of input from the coaching staff. Which again, I can totally see why more big 'name' coaches who wanted authority over such matters, rather than just the ability to give 'input', were turned off to coaching here because as some one put it, they would be at the mercy of the guy behind the desk.
I really don't care at this point. They are all lumped into one as far as I am concerned. No matter which way you slice it, Ireland helped hand pick this HC. If Ireland listens to him or not, it doesn't matter since the outcome will fall on him and Philbin.
Spesh
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Riveting, really.
unreal, you talked up a storm to follow up with that? still waiting for that "evidence" buddy
Spesh
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unreal, you talked up a storm to follow up with that? still waiting for that "evidence" buddy
Whats there to follow up with? You keep demanding evidence...when you provide none yourself. The only "proof" offered is a PR statement in which Ireland confirms he works with Philbin....nothing about Philbins role in this trade. You are in a thread which gives a detailed breakdown of the process and you deny it happened. This sort of blind delusion is outstanding. You chop up my posts to 1 word then exclaim "unreal!" when i return the favor.
Your argument has utterly no merit whatsoever and you cant prove it. So instead you demand proof from me. The burden of proof is on the prosecution, not the defense. Anytime you want to include Philbins specific role in this process(other then him chuckling at Vontae's bathroom breaks, solid evidence right there), feel free. In the meantime, keep insisting "No Wai! Ireland couldnt have done his job on his own!".
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i disagree. a college player's draft status and evaluation is extremely speculative. many players have first round grades that do not justify their draft selection. once the draft has concluded, the value of each player must be determined on the field. (a new car you drive off the lot that loses 20% of its value immediately comes to mind for some reason). Getting a first round draft pick (or more) in trade for a veteran is difficult in the NFL. you have to be a stud (or have a very stupid team as a draft partner) to get a first round pick (or more) back in trade. vontae played here for three seasons on his rookie contract. he showed physical abilty that perhaps justified his draft status. there were some character and motivation issues. ireland decided to pull the trigger when a (likely very high) second and sixth were offered to him. it isn't like on draft day he traded the 21st pick straight up for the 35th pick. but that's exactly how you portray it with your statement. i feel what he did was extremely impressive. the fact that vontae didn't well outplay being number 21 overall is not good. but here in august 2012, ireland rocked.
You still wont even answer my question. You said you have evidence.....well what is it?
The link I posted had video footage from ......wait......JEFF IRELAND. That Armando article that you keep citing....well....guess where that info came from....wait....JEFF IRELAND. You know, the guy you keep saying isnt a valid source? The guy who actually negotiated the trade cant be a source of info on the actual trade itself? The guy you said isnt source, is the guy you keeop citing as a soucre? Like if a reporter asked Jeff Ireland how it happened and writes and article on it, then its legit, but if a reporter askes Jeff Ireland in a video interview, its not legit? I'd like an explanation please
What amazes me is how so many think this is a bad trade. In the first half of last year, VD was useless at the end of games because he was winded, or cramping, or dull from exhaustion. Have people forgotten? It took him half a year to get into shape. Sure, he eventually played great but what of it? The Dolphins season was shot by then. This is why he lost his starting position. He hadn't learned anything from last years debacle and was on the same path; to crumple in the 4th quarter against Houston. To get a 2nd and a 6th for a 3 qtrs player is good haggling. Now, if you want to complain, you should direct your frustration at Ireland for drafting him in the first round. The NFL insiders who warned everyone about his red flags were right.
finfan54
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well then, they better quit their day job and get working on that!