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How the Vontae Davis trade went down
- Thread starter ckparrothead
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finfan54
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why do i sense some people just do not understand timing and logic??
Its four years later dude!!! How many first round pics from four years ago are still around?
finfan54
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Hayden,
I listened to half that interview. What Jeff Darlington and the rest of the world does not understand is that the Indy Colts came a callin. No trade was going to happen until the ante was upped to a 2nd and a 6th. So a value was reached where it made this move feasable.
I think many people do not understand what a great job ireland did here. If this were Bill Belichick he would be god all over again. So cmon, Jeff Darlington, dont feed us your big picture crap from four years ago when the dude was clearly not living up to his potential. That is where Philbin comes in. He is not living up to his potential. So they know they can find others who can take his place. Pure BB philosophy here.
EJay
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In providing my 2 cents, I'll first preface that I'm a Vontae Davis fan who was happy when they drafted him #25 overall in the 2009 draft (didn't know Clay Matthews would turn out to be so good). Anyway, the 2nd round pick the Dolphins just acquired for him could likely be a top 40 pick. Only losing up to 15 spots in the draft for a guy who isn't fitting into your program and has been demoted to the third corner 3 1/2 years later isn't the worst thing in the world. I'm not happy about losing Vontae, but they did get decent return on a guy that didn't fit into their plans. While we all would have liked a first rounder, that wasn't ever gonna happen.
Lastly, many seemed shocked about what's happening with guys like Marshall and Davis being shipped out, however, those same people aren't considering that this is often what happens when an entire new staff takes over. They want their own guys. Unless you've got a bonefide star that fits in to what the new staff wants to do, most the vets are gonna end up going at some point. I wouldn't be surprised if Reggie Bush, Jake Long and Karlos Dansby are moved before next season as well. Heck, even Cam Wake isn't totally safe. If he has a monster year and someone offers a high enough pick, they'd probably move him too (which I'd hate) because of his age and the fact they are stockpiling picks in which to select their own guys.
While Jeff Ireland was involved with acquiring some or all of the players he's now moving, it was with another staff's ideals in mind. Plus, he had Bill Parcells making final say on many things so, as far as we know, he wasn't totally on board with some of the acquisitions anyway. Regardless, he is now on a brand new page with the new staff and more of these types of moves are still to come.
Think about it. They know they couldn't get everything done in one offseason. They believe they have got their QB of the future and are now gonna sell off whatever they can to build their own team around him. The smart thing is, they aren't going to proactively sell off these guys but rather let the teams desperate to fill a hole contact them thus maximizing their leverage to get the highest return possible. That's what I believe the plan is anyway.
Lastly, many seemed shocked about what's happening with guys like Marshall and Davis being shipped out, however, those same people aren't considering that this is often what happens when an entire new staff takes over. They want their own guys. Unless you've got a bonefide star that fits in to what the new staff wants to do, most the vets are gonna end up going at some point. I wouldn't be surprised if Reggie Bush, Jake Long and Karlos Dansby are moved before next season as well. Heck, even Cam Wake isn't totally safe. If he has a monster year and someone offers a high enough pick, they'd probably move him too (which I'd hate) because of his age and the fact they are stockpiling picks in which to select their own guys.
While Jeff Ireland was involved with acquiring some or all of the players he's now moving, it was with another staff's ideals in mind. Plus, he had Bill Parcells making final say on many things so, as far as we know, he wasn't totally on board with some of the acquisitions anyway. Regardless, he is now on a brand new page with the new staff and more of these types of moves are still to come.
Think about it. They know they couldn't get everything done in one offseason. They believe they have got their QB of the future and are now gonna sell off whatever they can to build their own team around him. The smart thing is, they aren't going to proactively sell off these guys but rather let the teams desperate to fill a hole contact them thus maximizing their leverage to get the highest return possible. That's what I believe the plan is anyway.
ATL_PHIN_FAN
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Spesh
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Keep asking buddy, maybe if you make it 20 times you might prove...well, nothing, but the question might sound more amusing. Your the one insisting Philbin was making the decisions. I dont have to prove what someone didnt not know. I already gave 3 factors into why it wasnt Philbin who made this call. Hang onto that PR move though, its really moving. Thank god your not a lawyer, youd walk into court and scream at the defense "PROVE YOUR INNOCENT!!!!!" over and over again.
Spesh
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32 off the top of my head, i cant recall anyone from the first round of the '09 draft out of football.
Are you suggesting that we should trade our 2013 first round pick for the 2016 second round pick? I mean, after all, timing, logic, etc, etc, etc.
I hated to see Vontae go and half of you guys are pointing fingers at Ireland and the other half at Philbin but the reality is probably this,
This was a collective decision and a very good one. Vontae was a 1st round pick, and like you said we got a 2nd and 6th but, and this is the key point
Vontae was the 25th overall pick so that is a late 1st round pick who never matured and wasn't really improving. In fact he was demoted. Now the Colts were the worst team last year that has added an extremely good rookie QB but they lost a very good center in Jeff Saturday. At best they probably finish 8-8 giving us a least a mid 2nd round pick but they could easily finish toward the bottom again.
There is no way any team would have given us a 1st rounder for a player like Vontae. 1st round picks are only really dished out for superstar players.
electrolyte
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so Hard Knocks caused Vontae Davis to be traded
In summery Vontae was a late(25th overall) 1st round pick and we might get back an early 2nd plus a 6th
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if he starts for us for three seasons and plays on a relatively cheap rookie contract, maybe. is the team we are trading with going to suck in 2016? did the 2013 pick play up to his draft status and have the right attitude and work ethic? suggesting just trading one unused draft pick for a future unused draft pick makes no sense and kind of points out the issues in your premise.
Keep asking buddy, maybe if you make it 20 times you might prove...well, nothing, but the question might sound more amusing. Your the one insisting Philbin was making the decisions. I dont have to prove what someone didnt not know. I already gave 3 factors into why it wasnt Philbin who made this call. Hang onto that PR move though, its really moving. Thank god your not a lawyer, youd walk into court and scream at the defense "PROVE YOUR INNOCENT!!!!!" over and over again.
The reason I asked is because you claimed you had evidence, and I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for something you claimed existed. You still dodge the question, and still can't answer it. I simply asked you to back up your claim, and all you could come up with is hot air, fluffed up by contradictions and personal attacks. I called your BS, and even showed you where Ireland claimed Philbin was involved, and still you deny it and respond with these juvenile accusations. Talk about stubborn...
whizafriz
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In my mind, the problem with the Vontae trade is just the timing of it. Were less than 2 weeks out, best CB gone, lazy-ass or not, and were looking to upgrade at WR (which I agree is a bigger need than CB) But now we've taken a hit at CB, so.... what will we do about it?
The answer is unfortunately Trial by Fire with the remaining Marshall Smith and Caroll, and if you ask me, that's a risky way to enter the season. A position of already debatable strength on our team just got bumped down to largely questionable.
Might as well have given Vontae 'a chance' to gel on the team during the season; if he still doesnt fit, fine, dump him, but at least make an assessment by then of how your other CB's are performing, and if you can afford to part ways.
The answer is unfortunately Trial by Fire with the remaining Marshall Smith and Caroll, and if you ask me, that's a risky way to enter the season. A position of already debatable strength on our team just got bumped down to largely questionable.
Might as well have given Vontae 'a chance' to gel on the team during the season; if he still doesnt fit, fine, dump him, but at least make an assessment by then of how your other CB's are performing, and if you can afford to part ways.
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you can't pick and choose when another team is going to show up with a high offer for one of your players. fortunately he wasn't a starter, but it definitely doesn't help our depth.