I hope I'm wrong....but..... | Page 9 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

I hope I'm wrong....but.....

Your ok with a DE that is weak versus the run....and a two down linebacker?....Serious question?

Were you, are you, OK with Cam Wake? He had\has the same "grade" as it were, weak against run. So yes, I will take Harris that has a wicked first step you can't teach. His weaknesses can be coached. The fins needed a pass rusher and they have one. The best is he is a beast and you can say you were wrong. The worst for all fins fans including you, you were right and he sucks.

Hope you are wrong
 
Your ok with a DE that is weak versus the run....and a two down linebacker?....Serious question?

Is Wake strong vs the run? No, definitely not, but he thrives in our attacking front philosophy. Harris certainly has the potential to be a consistent 7-10 sack guy on a front 4 that has to get home to the QB b/c we're not a blitzing defense. He's also got a pretty damn good arsenal of moves for an amateur. One of which is a pretty wicked spin move which is ideal in our wide pass rush sets b/c as a DE you don't want to run on the arc every time (Jordan Willis) and get carried behind the QB. Worst place to be. That counter will help move the QB off his spot.

As far as stopping the run, that is mainly up to our LB's and that's where this beast comes in. McMillan is a plug 'n play 3 down LB. He immediately improves our run D. His strong suit may not be pass coverage but it is definitely not a weakness. He's average there and overall has great instincts and diagnose skills that will help that area to go along with being a very good tackler.

After sitting back and seeing the plan of attack in both FA and in the draft, I think our FO has done an excellent job in learning from their mistakes, capitalizing on thier strengths, and on their way to building a very solid and competitive ballclub.
 
I don't watch college ball so I don't know jack about anyone. However, I understand the OPs point - which is the analysis seems to suggest that the players we took are not great atheletes. I hope this turns out to be inaccurate but I can understand the concern. If true, it means we took a bunch of guys w low ceilings. Let's hope these kids can make a big impact.
 
I don't watch college ball so I don't know jack about anyone. However, I understand the OPs point - which is the analysis seems to suggest that the players we took are not great atheletes. I hope this turns out to be inaccurate but I can understand the concern. If true, it means we took a bunch of guys w low ceilings. Let's hope these kids can make a big impact.

I'll agree with you not knowing jack about anyone.


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Again...I used a 2 guard example as an extreme to show how bad these picks are...I would have taken Rueben Foster & Jordan Willis the way it fell...both players more complete than who we picked.

No...I don't like the last decade of drafts...My statement was..." I haven't felt this bad....."....Bad, but not this bad.

Gil Brandt, Pat Kirwan and Jim Miller....are all throwing in their mouths over our draft on NFL radio...its almost like they don't want to say too much because they want to slam these kids as hard as they want too.

Lets face it...looking aside from Harris's weakness against the run and his slow measurables....there were far more productive DE's available who can stop the run.

Jordan Willis and Demarcus Walker to name two.

Just for reference Pat Kirwin hates the Fins. Because of his past he always will. I've called in more than a couple times to NFL radio to debate him still not thinking Tannehill is a franchise QB. He also tried to tell me there was no difference between the offense the Fins ran when Moore was the starting QB and Tannehill was hurt. Which is complete BS.
 
I haven't felt this bad about a draft since 2013.

Players with major weaknesses in their games with strong talent available at both picks.

Something is wrong with our evaluation process....Grier's job should ride on this class impacting 2017 big time and be fired if they don't.

I would have rather fixed our O-line for good with two guards than take two defenders this flawed.

I hope I'm wrong...this draft sets us way back if I'm right.

Your not wrong. Your spot on. This front office broke EVERY rule of smart drafting. Passing on one of the best lb prospects in a decade for a MAJOR one dimentional, PART TIME player AND turning down a #1, 3 and 7th round pics to boot!! You want to talk about BAD drafting.

TANKERSLEY? You don't lock into a player EXLUSIVELY over a sweet sounding interview. Had they picked him and said "we are confident he can shut down Brady's wr's and most likely to heavily contribute or start right away", that would be different. But, "he blew us away in the interview and has A CHANCE to really contribute or even start in a couple years" is not. Again, poor reasoning, poor drafting. The office acts like we are truly a playoff team and we are NOT.

I am not down on tank as much as some, but we don't have the team in place where the office can knowingly draft players early they and the media draft nick's all say won't be a first year contributor or starter.. We do not have the corners this office thinks we have, not one of them can contest a ball on a consistent basis and if it's not a quick, decisive sack or tipped ball, it's 98% a completion for our opponent. Tank has a reputation as a good contest corner (aka, someone who doesn't need a qb sack, big pass rush or bad throw to be successful like the truly good cb's) and he could surprise everyone but again, the office wasn't making those assumption's, just that great interview. Bad drafting strategy and philosophy again.

All the way through there were better players, better talent and they past it all up. The thing that is probably going to bite us is center. Mike Pouncy is a liability health wise and FEENY should have been taken. It's not if, it's when and how soon pouncy goes down and I TRULY believe this is his last year. Another huge gamble by this staff that will probably, once again be the Achilles heel of this offense.

Center is massively important not only from a playing stand point but from making the CORRECT line calls!! Pouncy is great at all of that but, what happens when he is out? As we have seen, there is a Huge difference and drop in talent at center on the bench. FEENY would have been a pro bowl center for years. Big, big mistake.

Your right. This draft was an all around head scratcher and yet AGAIN we will have to suffer through all the pie in the sky homers posts for months as this being the mother of all dolphins drafts. As I have told them all, come see me in December. And I too hope I am dead wrong, NOTHING would make me happier than to post on the board in December how wrong I was in my take on this draft but my happiness, unfortunately, is will be on the shelf for a considerable time.
 
Let me preface this post by saying I would've chosen Reuben Foster over Charles Harris.

That being said, pretty much every team in the NFL passed on Foster. The two teams who were showing interest at the very end of the first round--the 49ers and Saints--have been two of the most poorly managed football teams in the league over the past couple years. While I would've been more excited today if Reuben Foster were on our team, I acknowledge that all of the best personnel departments in the NFL probably know more about this than I do (and yes, more than the draftniks do, too). To ask Mel Kiper, every team in the league should've been jumping over each other to trade up to take Foster once he fell past 15. That's not what happened. So obviously there's something about Reuben Foster that the NFL didn't like as much as the scouts did.

On to Charles Harris. I actually like Charles Harris. Outside of Foster, he was probably my top choice in that spot. You don't get perfect players at 22. You don't even get perfect players at 2. Does anyone think Mitch Trubisky is can't-miss? The only can't-miss prospects in this draft were Myles Garrett and Jamal Adams. That being said, I think Harris has an acceptably high floor and an acceptably high ceiling given our pick. Worst case scenario, we're looking at a guy who will be a hard-working, team-oriented situational pass rusher capable of finishing in the top 25 in the league in sacks every year. Best case scenario, we're looking at an elite pass rusher who develops into an average run defender and can be one of the league's premiere DEs. Both of those guys are worth first round draft picks. We just paid Andre Branch $8 million a year to be dramatically less valuable than either of those guys.

And as an aside, I think run defense from your 4-3 DEs is kind of being blown out of proportion. This offseason, we traded for one of the NFL's premiere run-defending DEs for a song. It's not a valuable skill set. We've loaded our linebacker corps with tackling machines to clean up behind our DEs. You might not love the Raekwon pick, but it's intimately tied into the Charles Harris pick. We took a DE who might not stop the run and a MLB who isn't going to miss any tackles behind him. Maybe Raekwon will struggle to hold up in coverage, but luckily, we took a DE who's going to shorten the window for how long he has to maintain that coverage. (That being said, I think the coverage knocks on Raekwon are blown out of proportion as well. The kid is 20 and ran a 4.61. He was busy quarterbacking an elite college defense and racking up 100+ tackles as a true sophomore and junior. He didn't prove himself to be great in coverage in college--that doesn't mean he can't get better at it. He's young and fast enough. Again, you don't get perfect players in the draft. If Raekwon had been a top coverage guy in college, he'd have been a top 5 pick. All the other guys taken around #50 have warts, too--name a potential replacement player and I'll point out his knocks.)
 
Your not wrong. Your spot on. This front office broke EVERY rule of smart drafting. Passing on one of the best lb prospects in a decade for a MAJOR one dimentional, PART TIME player AND turning down a #1, 3 and 7th round pics to boot!! You want to talk about BAD drafting.

TANKERSLEY? You don't lock into a player EXLUSIVELY over a sweet sounding interview. Had they picked him and said "we are confident he can shut down Brady's wr's and most likely to heavily contribute or start right away", that would be different. But, "he blew us away in the interview and has A CHANCE to really contribute or even start in a couple years" is not. Again, poor reasoning, poor drafting. The office acts like we are truly a playoff team and we are NOT.

I am not down on tank as much as some, but we don't have the team in place where the office can knowingly draft players early they and the media draft nick's all say won't be a first year contributor or starter.. We do not have the corners this office thinks we have, not one of them can contest a ball on a consistent basis and if it's not a quick, decisive sack or tipped ball, it's 98% a completion for our opponent. Tank has a reputation as a good contest corner (aka, someone who doesn't need a qb sack, big pass rush or bad throw to be successful like the truly good cb's) and he could surprise everyone but again, the office wasn't making those assumption's, just that great interview. Bad drafting strategy and philosophy again.

All the way through there were better players, better talent and they past it all up. The thing that is probably going to bite us is center. Mike Pouncy is a liability health wise and FEENY should have been taken. It's not if, it's when and how soon pouncy goes down and I TRULY believe this is his last year. Another huge gamble by this staff that will probably, once again be the Achilles heel of this offense.

Center is massively important not only from a playing stand point but from making the CORRECT line calls!! Pouncy is great at all of that but, what happens when he is out? As we have seen, there is a Huge difference and drop in talent at center on the bench. FEENY would have been a pro bowl center for years. Big, big mistake.

Your right. This draft was an all around head scratcher and yet AGAIN we will have to suffer through all the pie in the sky homers posts for months as this being the mother of all dolphins drafts. As I have told them all, come see me in December. And I too hope I am dead wrong, NOTHING would make me happier than to post on the board in December how wrong I was in my take on this draft but my happiness, unfortunately, is will be on the shelf for a considerable time.

You're*
 
Is Wake strong vs the run? No, definitely not, but he thrives in our attacking front philosophy. Harris certainly has the potential to be a consistent 7-10 sack guy on a front 4 that has to get home to the QB b/c we're not a blitzing defense. He's also got a pretty damn good arsenal of moves for an amateur. One of which is a pretty wicked spin move which is ideal in our wide pass rush sets b/c as a DE you don't want to run on the arc every time (Jordan Willis) and get carried behind the QB. Worst place to be. That counter will help move the QB off his spot.

As far as stopping the run, that is mainly up to our LB's and that's where this beast comes in. McMillan is a plug 'n play 3 down LB. He immediately improves our run D. His strong suit may not be pass coverage but it is definitely not a weakness. He's average there and overall has great instincts and diagnose skills that will help that area to go along with being a very good tackler.

After sitting back and seeing the plan of attack in both FA and in the draft, I think our FO has done an excellent job in learning from their mistakes, capitalizing on thier strengths, and on their way to building a very solid and competitive ballclub.

I'm confused. Were you trolling a few days ago? You sent down fire and brimstone about the first pick.
 
Just for reference Pat Kirwin hates the Fins. Because of his past he always will. I've called in more than a couple times to NFL radio to debate him still not thinking Tannehill is a franchise QB. He also tried to tell me there was no difference between the offense the Fins ran when Moore was the starting QB and Tannehill was hurt. Which is complete BS.
You are 100% correct. Pat Kirwan is very knowledgable but he hates the Dolphins. He never says anything positive about Miami. Never, ever. When Ndamukong Suh got signed, this was terrible. When Tannehill got drafted, this was terrible. When Gase was appointed Coach, this was terrible, etc.
A caller once phoned in saying he follows the Bills, the Jets and the Patriots and Pat's response was I understand completely, you really hate the Dolphins.
 
All the way through there were better players, better talent and they past it all up. The thing that is probably going to bite us is center. Mike Pouncy is a liability health wise and FEENY should have been taken. It's not if, it's when and how soon pouncy goes down and I TRULY believe this is his last year. Another huge gamble by this staff that will probably, once again be the Achilles heel of this offense.

Center is massively important not only from a playing stand point but from making the CORRECT line calls!! Pouncy is great at all of that but, what happens when he is out? As we have seen, there is a Huge difference and drop in talent at center on the bench. FEENY would have been a pro bowl center for years. Big, big mistake.

I get wanting insurance on Pouncey; those recents photos are not encouraging. But wanting to replace him with Dan Feeney who has had about 6 concussions in college would be a mistake. Basically, you would get younger but not solve the health issue.
 
I'm confused. Were you trolling a few days ago? You sent down fire and brimstone about the first pick.

Nope not trolling. Just stepped back and looked at the whole picture (FA and Draft) instead of having blinders on and viewing the whole thing from a single pick. I may or may not have been sober either on night one of the draft. :chuckle:
 
You should've wrote him that he should care about what Joe Public thinks, before ya'll arm chair gm's start spewing you knowledge about the draft, did you not see all of those running plays against our defense last season? did you not see the offensive lineman that cam via free agency? now the fins gave 4.7 per rush and they're not supposed to go defensive? some guys just see negative things no matter what.
 
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