jlfin
old pro
zackmandude63 said:
Greenway wasn't even at the top of the depth chart at the time of his injury. He was 2nd string.
If you had the 16th pick in the draft...
- Thread starter PhinFan0202
- Start date
Greenway wasn't even at the top of the depth chart at the time of his injury. He was 2nd string.
the last guy in the draft i would have picked would have been jason allen. i was mad when they picked him and i am still waiting for this guy to make any contribution whatsoever!!! if i could go back i definitely would have picked nick mangold.
Considering he is healthy and the secondary is a bunch of castoffs from other teams, right now, Jason Allen is easily one of the top 5 worst #1 draft picks in dolphin history. However, it's still early enough for him to improve and only the college geniuses at LSU had the IQ to grasp Saban's defensive schemes. He is athletic and 4.3 fast. GeeZ, can't he return a kickoff, punt or something?
Pocoloco
I'm your huckleberry
I absolutely would've picked Jason Allen. Cromartie was interesting, but had less college playing time and was also coming off an injury. I think you could make a good case for Manny Lawson. Saban wants his safeties to be like defensive quarterbacks, so it doesn't surprise me that he went that way.
Not having a second hurt us this year, because we could have had a shot at Chad Jackson, Jimmy Williams, or Winston Justice there.
For all of you that have concluded that Allen is a horrible pick or a bust, you obviously don't know a thing about how drafting works in the NFL. Maybe it's a holdover from the Wanny/Spielman days because just about all of his picks were a bust, but very few guys make an impact right away. Throw in the fact that he was learning two positions in this defense (something Saban said was a mistake), and you delay things more. Allen could be great, or he could be a bust, there's honestly no way of knowing at this particular moment.
Not having a second hurt us this year, because we could have had a shot at Chad Jackson, Jimmy Williams, or Winston Justice there.
For all of you that have concluded that Allen is a horrible pick or a bust, you obviously don't know a thing about how drafting works in the NFL. Maybe it's a holdover from the Wanny/Spielman days because just about all of his picks were a bust, but very few guys make an impact right away. Throw in the fact that he was learning two positions in this defense (something Saban said was a mistake), and you delay things more. Allen could be great, or he could be a bust, there's honestly no way of knowing at this particular moment.
NathanHunt
Fluff Girls are underpaid.
First round picks are not developmental players. Period.
They are immediate impact or franchise players. I can see sitting a QB for 1 year, but every other position is impact. The guy should be ready to start on Week 1.
Greatness doesn't need excuses.
I also fault the FO for not getting the deal done as Wayne wanted.
We are simply burning too many candles on both ends.
We are trying to lowball every player. Meanwhile, in many situations (while not blinking), we are not bring in backup plans.
I'm still fuming about letting Gus go. That was a complete idiotic move. And to hear Saban give the excuse "Daunte is still recovering" only makes me want to throw a chair through the TV. As if his "still recovering" couldn't be foreseen in March. No one said he couldn't walk by Week 1. No one said he couldn't play by Week 1. The REAL question was how well he could be expected to play by Week 1. So, why not keep Gus to transition us while still being productive as Daunte OR whomever the new QB would have been has learned the system and is ready to hit the field running (so to speak). Quite honestly, our offensive productivity is directly related to Daunte's not being ready, chemisty with WRs, poor decision making on the field and our lack of propensity to run the ball. Which leads me to Ricky.
Sure, Ricky's problem was not completely predictable in January. But, we knew his history. We knew our depth @ RB. And, more poignantly, we supposedly have a coach who always wants to "get better" at every position. Please tell me how we addressed getting better @ RB before camp.
No one was available you say? What about DeAngelo Williams... Laurence Maroney.... or any of the other platoon of backs that have been traded and acquired this year by other teams. Where were we in the mix?
And, if you say the Williams and Maroney were not feasible solutions with the 1st round pick, then why did they land on teams that had an entrenched starter returning? And, now look at their relative importance to those teams. Those starters had injury histories you say? Ronnie didn't? We couldn't foresee Morris' problem that soon?
Knowledge of Morris' problems began in March Morris disputes drug suspension (SI)
Knowledge of Ricky's problems began in February Report: Williams appeals failed drug test (NFL.com)
Where was the backup plans we've been preached about?
We entered the draft with drug penalty issues surrounding RB2, RB3 and our RB4 was a ST ace with no real glamorous productivity on the field in his past. We had just traded for our QB1 in early March and were looking for a QB2. Not too mention we had just turned over both coordinator positions.
Sure, we had a LOT of holes. But, our winning streak was dependent upon our RB2 and the improved play from QB1 and QB2. Yet, we let all 3 positions become victimized and did nothing to ensure a continued level of productivity to start the season.
And please don't say Joey and Daunte were upgrades in productivity for the early part of the season. 2 new QBs cannot be expected to assimilate with a new team, relative new offense and coaching staff while splitting snaps. Gus should have been kept.
We would have been better served acquiring Williams or Maroney. Ronnie is our #1 back and you don't want to start a contaversy you say? Ronnie did well with Ricky last year. Ricky was a known short term solution. But, what was the problem? The problem is a shared backfield. It's evident now, even when averaging nearly 5ypc against Buffalo, we decided to give Ronnie 15 carries. And 15 against Pitt. It's obvious we do not intend to allow Ronnie to shoulder the load. It's obvious our system is a platoon system @ RB. So, why didn't we address the longevity of the platoon?
Sure, we needed DB help, but we couldn't find it elsewhere? Keeping Lance wasn't an option? Recruiting another FA DB wasn't a possibility? Why not, we found 2 starting DBs in FA, what's one more?
I'm a Saban fan and I DO understand why he does many things he does, but guys, we cannot rebuild every year. You must have continuity to carry over success. Last year's Buffalo loss (early) kept us out of the playoffs. I said it then and I'll say it now, this Buffalo loss will hurt much more later in the year.
And "not drafting" Jason Allen would have prevented that?
Yes, if we'd drafted another RB, kept Lance and Gus.
Pick it apart. But, it's Wednesday and I'm still fuming from Sunday.
In order to reach the next level, you must win the games you are supposed to win. I keep hearing our fans say "those 6 wins were inflated". NO, they are not. Remember this:
In order to be elite, you have to win every game you are supposed to and even those you are not.
We were fulfilling the first part. But now, we just took a few steps back.
I still believe in Saban and what he's doing. But, he's made some bad choices and we are suffering because of it.
They are immediate impact or franchise players. I can see sitting a QB for 1 year, but every other position is impact. The guy should be ready to start on Week 1.
Greatness doesn't need excuses.
I also fault the FO for not getting the deal done as Wayne wanted.
We are simply burning too many candles on both ends.
We are trying to lowball every player. Meanwhile, in many situations (while not blinking), we are not bring in backup plans.
I'm still fuming about letting Gus go. That was a complete idiotic move. And to hear Saban give the excuse "Daunte is still recovering" only makes me want to throw a chair through the TV. As if his "still recovering" couldn't be foreseen in March. No one said he couldn't walk by Week 1. No one said he couldn't play by Week 1. The REAL question was how well he could be expected to play by Week 1. So, why not keep Gus to transition us while still being productive as Daunte OR whomever the new QB would have been has learned the system and is ready to hit the field running (so to speak). Quite honestly, our offensive productivity is directly related to Daunte's not being ready, chemisty with WRs, poor decision making on the field and our lack of propensity to run the ball. Which leads me to Ricky.
Sure, Ricky's problem was not completely predictable in January. But, we knew his history. We knew our depth @ RB. And, more poignantly, we supposedly have a coach who always wants to "get better" at every position. Please tell me how we addressed getting better @ RB before camp.
No one was available you say? What about DeAngelo Williams... Laurence Maroney.... or any of the other platoon of backs that have been traded and acquired this year by other teams. Where were we in the mix?
And, if you say the Williams and Maroney were not feasible solutions with the 1st round pick, then why did they land on teams that had an entrenched starter returning? And, now look at their relative importance to those teams. Those starters had injury histories you say? Ronnie didn't? We couldn't foresee Morris' problem that soon?
Knowledge of Morris' problems began in March Morris disputes drug suspension (SI)
Knowledge of Ricky's problems began in February Report: Williams appeals failed drug test (NFL.com)
Where was the backup plans we've been preached about?
We entered the draft with drug penalty issues surrounding RB2, RB3 and our RB4 was a ST ace with no real glamorous productivity on the field in his past. We had just traded for our QB1 in early March and were looking for a QB2. Not too mention we had just turned over both coordinator positions.
Sure, we had a LOT of holes. But, our winning streak was dependent upon our RB2 and the improved play from QB1 and QB2. Yet, we let all 3 positions become victimized and did nothing to ensure a continued level of productivity to start the season.
And please don't say Joey and Daunte were upgrades in productivity for the early part of the season. 2 new QBs cannot be expected to assimilate with a new team, relative new offense and coaching staff while splitting snaps. Gus should have been kept.
We would have been better served acquiring Williams or Maroney. Ronnie is our #1 back and you don't want to start a contaversy you say? Ronnie did well with Ricky last year. Ricky was a known short term solution. But, what was the problem? The problem is a shared backfield. It's evident now, even when averaging nearly 5ypc against Buffalo, we decided to give Ronnie 15 carries. And 15 against Pitt. It's obvious we do not intend to allow Ronnie to shoulder the load. It's obvious our system is a platoon system @ RB. So, why didn't we address the longevity of the platoon?
Sure, we needed DB help, but we couldn't find it elsewhere? Keeping Lance wasn't an option? Recruiting another FA DB wasn't a possibility? Why not, we found 2 starting DBs in FA, what's one more?
I'm a Saban fan and I DO understand why he does many things he does, but guys, we cannot rebuild every year. You must have continuity to carry over success. Last year's Buffalo loss (early) kept us out of the playoffs. I said it then and I'll say it now, this Buffalo loss will hurt much more later in the year.
And "not drafting" Jason Allen would have prevented that?
Yes, if we'd drafted another RB, kept Lance and Gus.
Pick it apart. But, it's Wednesday and I'm still fuming from Sunday.
In order to reach the next level, you must win the games you are supposed to win. I keep hearing our fans say "those 6 wins were inflated". NO, they are not. Remember this:
In order to be elite, you have to win every game you are supposed to and even those you are not.
We were fulfilling the first part. But now, we just took a few steps back.
I still believe in Saban and what he's doing. But, he's made some bad choices and we are suffering because of it.
dlockz
Hall Of Famer
Not sure why a discussion about last year's 16th pick was bumped to draft forum especially since it was our pick but oh well. I guess the forum should be why we should have not taken S Jason Allen with the 16th pick.
dlockz said:
Oh I hear ya. I just think the team has alot bigger needs than the pass rusher many are/were pulling for.
In a perfect world we could have traded down and picked up Max Jean Giles and Winston Justice, then taken our safety, Ko Simpson or Pat Watkins later on.
PhinFan0202
Alriiigghht miaaammi!!!
dlockz said:
I started this forum and that was not my question at all. I was asking who the fans would have picked now that the draft picks have got some NFL action. I never once said that Jason Allen was going to be bust i actually think when ge gets a chance to start he will be good.
LMAO @ this thread . . on da real, and u fairweather fans come out to threads like this. Have any of u questioned the fact that would any of these "subs" u are suggesting would even be starting on this team? Remember Saban likes guys who know his defense (His first season obviously nobody knew his defense except Daniels, which is why it made room for him and Crowder to make early impacts, plus we were in rebuild mode also, Roth is just in a tuff spot being on such a talented DLine, but I'm pretty sure u guys think he sucks because he hasn't been able to take over a spot yet). Do u think Manny Lawson would have been the starter over Spragan? I don't think so, I could be wrong, but I doubt it. All these safeties would most likely be in similar situations as Allen is in right now, so stop trying to make it seem like the man sucks when these guys are on completely different teams. If JaAllen was on Buffalo instead of Whitner . . . he would be starting right now . . . so tho this thread may be hypothetical, thats all it is . . .has no relevance or truth to what really would have happened.
Must be fun to see who is starting 2 weeks into the season, rather than judge off of combine numbers and college to make your "subs" tho.
Must be fun to see who is starting 2 weeks into the season, rather than judge off of combine numbers and college to make your "subs" tho.
PhinFan0202
Alriiigghht miaaammi!!!
Kdawg954 said:
We really didn't get a bad pick in the draft. Half of the reason Allen is on the bench is that he came into camp late. Ronnie came into camp late but he was the only runningback we had. Ricky was suspened, Sammy Morris is more of a spot back, and Travis Minor probably couldn't get the job done as a starter(2004 season). Allen is on the bench because there are better people at safety at this point. Allen has major upside which is why we drafted him.