"It's now or never for Ryan Tannehill" | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

"It's now or never for Ryan Tannehill"

Dolphins512 said:
Fair.......but Luck was a 4 year starter at Stanford while RT had a little over a year at that level. I look at it the other way in that RT is much closer to Luck than he rationally should be based on overall experience. Where Luck clearly exceeds RT is in leadership and command of the players on the field which seems to come naturally to Luck. I expect RT to grow more comfortable in that role and take charge of the on the field offense in 2014.
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Yeah, this is why I'm hopeful for him. I'm much more hopeful now for him than I was when he was first drafted. I thought he was a 100% product of hype. Now that I've watched him, I think he can become a good QB. He's off to a solid start, and people should feel good about that since I'm a skeptic.

I do think it's a bad idea for anyone to expect he'll get better just because he has less experience as a QB than a typical 1st round QB. Be hopeful? Sure. People just can't attribute some big jump in competence just because he has less experience. I do read lots of people here getting angry at posters because they are cautious about T-Hill. I don't get that. It's perfectly legit to be cautious about him.
 
I find it funny that of that chart Tannehill just about outperformed 4 outta 6 guys in TD's and yards in only his second year as opposed to their "crucial" third year. Good job Walker!


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Is it "NOW OR NEVER" for RGIII? Just checking cause he sucked last year.
 
Vaark said:
Isn't Angelo the "QB Whisperer" who drafted Rex Grossman (and Michael Haynes) with the Bears 03 First Round Picks?
And wasted later round picks on Nathan Enderle, Craig Krenzel and Dan LeFevour. This man's grasp of Pro QB essentials only rivals Bill Parcells' Franchise-Rebuilding expertise! What's next? A Philbin coaching "critique" from Rich Kotite?
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I enjoy following your updated avatars and signatures. I always wonder what this weeks' flavor will be.

Oh, I guess your posts are kind of entertaining too...

:brewskis:
 
Vaark said:
Isn't Angelo the "QB Whisperer" who drafted Rex Grossman (and Michael Haynes) with the Bears 03 First Round Picks?
And wasted later round picks on Nathan Enderle, Craig Krenzel and Dan LeFevour. This man's grasp of Pro QB essentials only rivals Bill Parcells' Franchise-Rebuilding expertise! What's next? A Philbin coaching "critique" from Rich Kotite?
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Freakin' candidate for the post of the year, lol.

Eli Manning has two Super Bowls and the Manning blood... yet how did he look last behind a subpar line which was still levels better than Tannehill's? And this w. more weapons?

Heck, put Tom Brady behind that line and he's in treatment for PTSD before the year's out, lol. Brady HATES pressure and has to have Pro-Bowl caliber protection in order to be happy.

Tannehill over-performed last year, given two realities: 1. The worst OL in the history of the Phins; and 2. Mediocre and sub-par talent at skill positions all around (w. the exception of Wallace -- who had to be overpaid to be here). The drafted skill positions of this team are laughable or simply passable (Clay was passable, but was the third or fourth option pressed into duty -- two high draft picks taking up bench space ahead of him). It's simply unbelievable, the state that Ireland left his roster in, talent wise.

And Tannehill over-performed w. those realities. Especially the OL.

LD
 
I said this before and I'll say it again:

Everyone agreed he was very raw and green coming out of college. He has progressed and improved each year so far. What the hell are people realistically expecting? What more was he supposed to do given the circumstances?

The rarest traits in fandom are perspective and patience. Relax. If he stops improving then have the conversation about "do or die". Until then, please relax.
 
I don't know if its "make or break" but I do think Philbin has expedited his learning curve and as long as we don't suffer any catastrophic injuries or go through anymore bully-gates Tannehill should have a big year this season. I'm still on the fence but will be taking a side by the end of the season and the only stat that is going to float my boat will be wins, I don't care how he looks doing it -- just win. Worst case scenario for me is to lose "pretty" with great stats, maybe even record breaking stats, but still leaves a few winnable games on the table, a-la Jay Cutler. We'll probably be in for another long 10 years if that happens.
 
roy_miami said:
I don't know if its "make or break" but I do think Philbin has expedited his learning curve and as long as we don't suffer any catastrophic injuries or go through anymore bully-gates Tannehill should have a big year this season. I'm still on the fence but will be taking a side by the end of the season and the only stat that is going to float my boat will be wins, I don't care how he looks doing it -- just win. Worst case scenario for me is to lose "pretty" with great stats, maybe even record breaking stats, but still leaves a few winnable games on the table, a-la Jay Cutler. We'll probably be in for another long 10 years if that happens.
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All that matters at the end of the day is wins.
 
PPPP said:
I do think it's a bad idea for anyone to expect he'll get better just because he has less experience as a QB than a typical 1st round QB. Be hopeful? Sure. People just can't attribute some big jump in competence just because he has less experience. I do read lots of people here getting angry at posters because they are cautious about T-Hill. I don't get that. It's perfectly legit to be cautious about him.
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Exactly. There are two variables and virtually everyone here prefers flowery interpretation of the second, that Tannehill will improve dramatically with more playing time, while throwing away caution toward the first, that he wasn't playing quarterback at high level in college parallel to his peers. Tannehill was wide receiver or on the bench while guys like Russell Wilson were racking up 8+ yards per attempt at North Carolina State.

Then somehow we're supposed to be surprised when little has changed a few years later.

I believe in early excellence, that more often than not the adjustments don't work. The Dolphins have had four picks in the top 10 within the past decade and three times they preferred to ignore a less than ideal resume. Ronnie Brown redshirted in college without injury excuse at running back but it didn't matter. Ryan Tannehill was 23 years old before he started a college opener at quarterback but it didn't matter. Dion Jordan was a part time player in college but it didn't matter. The only time we relied on a standard resume for a premium pick we took Jake Long. Now, there are questions about the wisdom of naming an offensive tackle number one, and obviously there was a quarterback with a debatable franchise tag available, but at least we didn't reach for someone with a shaky background. And we were rewarded with Pro Bowl caliber play prior to injury.

Late bloomers are fine in limited quantity if you don't pay much. Cameron Wake obviously qualifies. The Dolphin offensive line during the '70s glory years contained several examples. But if you target guys early in the draft who have not fully proven themselves as elite, you are begging to be burned. And more often than not it will play out that way. Good, but not special. This league requires special. It irritates the heck out of me because I believe in playing the percentages, in doing the right thing and allowing the natural course of events to play out in your favor. The Dolphins too often draw to an inside straight without sensing that's the burden they are undertaking.

This forum is hilarious when so many posters prefer the fanciful adjustment, and don't want to be told that their perspectives are flawed and not exactly high percentage. Gravity, for example, uses actual numbers, and ones that are long established as the gold standards. Then he took it upon himself to contact sources from the top stats sites for advice while blending numbers in search of even greater clarity. He's produced some fantastic work here, threads I have shown to betting buddies who reacted very positively.

Yet somehow Gravity is mocked. You've got to love it. Please stay out of our way while we apply the bar stool caliber angles that we've happily grown accustomed to. We're going to continue to adjust -- dammit -- regardless of the duration of the losing streak. Imagine what this site would have looked like if it had existed during the heyday of the Marino era, with 6000+ yards forecast every year along with yet another Super Bowl romp.
 
Awsi Dooger said:
Exactly. There are two variables and virtually everyone here prefers flowery interpretation of the second, that Tannehill will improve dramatically with more playing time, while throwing away caution toward the first, that he wasn't playing quarterback at high level in college parallel to his peers. Tannehill was wide receiver or on the bench while guys like Russell Wilson were racking up 8+ yards per attempt at North Carolina State.

Then somehow we're supposed to be surprised when little has changed a few years later.

I believe in early excellence, that more often than not the adjustments don't work. The Dolphins have had four picks in the top 10 within the past decade and three times they preferred to ignore a less than ideal resume. Ronnie Brown redshirted in college without injury excuse at running back but it didn't matter. Ryan Tannehill was 23 years old before he started a college opener at quarterback but it didn't matter. Dion Jordan was a part time player in college but it didn't matter. The only time we relied on a standard resume for a premium pick we took Jake Long. Now, there are questions about the wisdom of naming an offensive tackle number one, and obviously there was a quarterback with a debatable franchise tag available, but at least we didn't reach for someone with a shaky background. And we were rewarded with Pro Bowl caliber play prior to injury.

Late bloomers are fine in limited quantity if you don't pay much. Cameron Wake obviously qualifies. The Dolphin offensive line during the '70s glory years contained several examples. But if you target guys early in the draft who have not fully proven themselves as elite, you are begging to be burned. And more often than not it will play out that way. Good, but not special. This league requires special. It irritates the heck out of me because I believe in playing the percentages, in doing the right thing and allowing the natural course of events to play out in your favor. The Dolphins too often draw to an inside straight without sensing that's the burden they are undertaking.

This forum is hilarious when so many posters prefer the fanciful adjustment, and don't want to be told that their perspectives are flawed and not exactly high percentage. Gravity, for example, uses actual numbers, and ones that are long established as the gold standards. Then he took it upon himself to contact sources from the top stats sites for advice while blending numbers in search of even greater clarity. He's produced some fantastic work here, threads I have shown to betting buddies who reacted very positively.

Yet somehow Gravity is mocked. You've got to love it. Please stay out of our way while we apply the bar stool caliber angles that we've happily grown accustomed to. We're going to continue to adjust -- dammit -- regardless of the duration of the losing streak. Imagine what this site would have looked like if it had existed during the heyday of the Marino era, with 6000+ yards forecast every year along with yet another Super Bowl romp.
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This is all great and very true. I still wouldn't be surprised if Tannehill improves on his previous season again. Until he shows stunted or even slowed progress I'm not willing to throw it away.
 
Awsi Dooger said:
Exactly. There are two variables and virtually everyone here prefers flowery interpretation of the second, that Tannehill will improve dramatically with more playing time, while throwing away caution toward the first, that he wasn't playing quarterback at high level in college parallel to his peers. Tannehill was wide receiver or on the bench while guys like Russell Wilson were racking up 8+ yards per attempt at North Carolina State.

Then somehow we're supposed to be surprised when little has changed a few years later.

I believe in early excellence, that more often than not the adjustments don't work. The Dolphins have had four picks in the top 10 within the past decade and three times they preferred to ignore a less than ideal resume. Ronnie Brown redshirted in college without injury excuse at running back but it didn't matter. Ryan Tannehill was 23 years old before he started a college opener at quarterback but it didn't matter. Dion Jordan was a part time player in college but it didn't matter. The only time we relied on a standard resume for a premium pick we took Jake Long. Now, there are questions about the wisdom of naming an offensive tackle number one, and obviously there was a quarterback with a debatable franchise tag available, but at least we didn't reach for someone with a shaky background. And we were rewarded with Pro Bowl caliber play prior to injury.

Late bloomers are fine in limited quantity if you don't pay much. Cameron Wake obviously qualifies. The Dolphin offensive line during the '70s glory years contained several examples. But if you target guys early in the draft who have not fully proven themselves as elite, you are begging to be burned. And more often than not it will play out that way. Good, but not special. This league requires special. It irritates the heck out of me because I believe in playing the percentages, in doing the right thing and allowing the natural course of events to play out in your favor. The Dolphins too often draw to an inside straight without sensing that's the burden they are undertaking.

This forum is hilarious when so many posters prefer the fanciful adjustment, and don't want to be told that their perspectives are flawed and not exactly high percentage. Gravity, for example, uses actual numbers, and ones that are long established as the gold standards. Then he took it upon himself to contact sources from the top stats sites for advice while blending numbers in search of even greater clarity. He's produced some fantastic work here, threads I have shown to betting buddies who reacted very positively.

Yet somehow Gravity is mocked. You've got to love it. Please stay out of our way while we apply the bar stool caliber angles that we've happily grown accustomed to. We're going to continue to adjust -- dammit -- regardless of the duration of the losing streak. Imagine what this site would have looked like if it had existed during the heyday of the Marino era, with 6000+ yards forecast every year along with yet another Super Bowl romp.
Click to expand...


Nice post. I don't know the politics of the board or Gravity's work, but yeah this board (and most football boards in general) prefer a homeristic point of view. I don't mind it as long as it's not overboard. Mocking people for providing good stats shouldn't happen. Cmon folks! We are all Dolphin fans here, right?

---------- Post added at 04:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:07 PM ----------
moonman said:
This is all great and very true. I still wouldn't be surprised if Tannehill improves on his previous season again. Until he shows stunted or even slowed progress I'm not willing to throw it away.
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I hope he will. Like I said, he looks comparable to Luck, and that's good thing. He needs an OL. We really need to make this draft count.
 
With everything that has been going on in Dolphinsland how could you be disappointed with what he's done? It's not like he's regressing. We're talking about a kid who had to throw it like 440 times last season on a team with a subpar line and no running game. That's not how football is played.

I don't even know if you can compare his situation to anyone else in the league. Russel Wilson has been great for Seattle, but we're talking about a kid who attempted the fewest passes in the NFL last year, has a great running game, and a stifling defense. Those are prime conditions to play in. Always have been.

Again, I'm not sure what we expected here.
 
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