I think he's doing that to me at this point. No way he can believe the things he's posted in this thread.
LeBron James...PROOF that Loyalty DOESN'T MATTER...
- Thread starter JCane
- Start date
I think he's doing that to me at this point. No way he can believe the things he's posted in this thread.
jree
Active Roster
Bear with me cause I'm using my phone so this might take like 5 posts: )
This is my point about this cavs team being a horrible supporting cast. If lebron doesn't play at his highest level, be it he quit or was really injured depending on who you ask, who is on the team to be the # 2 Guy.? Nobody. Atleast with the bulls they had pippen. Lakers have gasol, arrest, and sometimes Fisher. Lebron had absolutley nobody. No coach, no second in command.
If this team was almost as good as that 90s bulls team, why are they imploding and starting over? Cause that team was filled with a bunch of scrubs.
jree
Active Roster
So he's allowed to stay in Cleveland and get help but he's not allowed to leave Cleveland and get help?
jree
Active Roster
They wouldn't have been able to sign stoudemire. He's in it for the money and nothing else and Cleveland didn't have enough to sign both. More importantly, he wanted new York money.
jree
Active Roster
No but a team that's "comparable" to a Jordan led bulls team should have atleast one other player to help with some of the scoring against a breaking down Celtics team.
Cleveland traded SUPAHSTAR Delonte West and Sebastian Telfair (didn't even know they had him lmao) for something called Ramon Sessions and a tall guy I've never heard of.
Wow. This stuff was probably on it's way to help LeBron win a title if he would have stayed.
Wow. This stuff was probably on it's way to help LeBron win a title if he would have stayed.
They aren't a truly great team, they are the best of a bad bunch of teams. The Finals this year was some of the worst basketball I have seen in playoff games and it was the Finals! The level of play should be off the charts, it was brutal basketball.
The lakers are great for now but not a truly great team like the lakers of the 80s, Celts of the 80s, Bulls of the 90s and lebron never had to deal w/ the lakers anyway. The whole point was Jordan had to get through the 80s Celtics and Pistons(into early 90s) while lebron never had to get through any truly great teams.
Miami fans that now love Lebron are making excuses for him. He's obviously the biggest reason they were contenders(and actually considered the favorites in the East the last 2 years) but he couldn't get it done when it mattered most.
Nowhere have I been proven wrong, I can't help it if heat fans all of a sudden think lebron never had any help. Why was Clevalnd considered the favorites going into postseason the last 2 years? These are all excuses for lebron.
No, it's not the job of his teammates to carry lebron. it's their job to play their roles and contribute but when Lebron isn't playing well it makes it difficult for those role players to do their jobs.
Kobe has won before! he had a bad game 7 but he didn't have back to back awful games in the 2 biggest games of the year. lebron has never won anything, his teammates don't have confidence he can get it done in big games, the lakers know Kob can get it done in a big spot even if he struggles for 45 minutes. They know they can count on him, that is a huge burden off of the role players and allows them to play more relaxed.
It does speak for itslef that lebron left, he wants a championship handed to him. That's all it tells us.
They are starting over b/c their version of Jordan walked away from the team. This is equivalent to Michael Jordan becoming a FA after the 1990 season b/c he didn't think he could ever beat Detroit. Scottie Pippen wasn't considered really good until after they started winning titles, he was considered this soft guy who couldn't play against the big boys. If Jordan could have left and did leave we'd all think of that Bulls team the way you guys think of Clevalnd right now.
He left cleveland to be handed a title, there's a difference btw help and forming a super team.
Antawn Jamison has averaged 20 PPg in his NBA career, in Pippen's 17 year career he only averaged over 20 FOUR times and averaged 16 PPG in his career. he had a 2nd scoring option.
My stance and opinion of LeBron have yet to change since LeBron got here. I've always felt the same way about LeBron from his high school days. I said from the beginning that there was too much hype around this kid and that no matter what he accomplishes it will never be enough for the fans and the media. I don't let my emotions get in the way. That's why every year on this board as well as Hurricane boards I am CRUSHED for believing the Dolphins to be a 9 - 7 team (which is what I called last season) and believing that the Hurricanes will NEVER win **** with Randy Shannon at the helm. So don't think that because LeBron choose our city that my opinion of him is bias.
No where did I say that it's the job of his teammates to carry him. But if they're near as good as you think they are, then they shouldn't have a problem stepping up when he's off. Kobe's teammates did it for him. Jordan's teammates did it for him. LeBron's teammates did not. But Kobe and Jordan get the pass. LeBron does not. Again, the expectations for him coming out of high school were just too much for him to ever be successful.
Winning is winning man. You know that had the Jets went on to win the Super Bowl that you would have came to this board and so many guys would have stuck it in your face that we beat you guys twice last season. But winning is winning. If you guys had won it all after being "handed" a playoff spot...winning is winning. You either do or you don't. After LeBron wins his title people will point to the "help" that he had but in a few years it won't matter because all we look at is winning. My original post in this thread proves it. The Harris poll leaves no question.
The thing you don't realize about Antawn Jamison is that he was the number one option in Golden State years ago. Of course he's going to be a scoring threat. Pippen had Jordan. Jordan was the man. Jordan was the scorer. Antawn Jamison isn't in Pippen's league. Pippen was FAR superior defensively. One of the top three in the league defensively his entire career. Pippen could lock down anyone in the league. Jamison is a lazy defender. Jamison looks good on the highlight reel. That's about it. And Jamison averaged 15 points with LeBron. Sounds kinda similar to Pippen's 16 a game average with Jordan doesn't it.
No where did I say that it's the job of his teammates to carry him. But if they're near as good as you think they are, then they shouldn't have a problem stepping up when he's off. Kobe's teammates did it for him. Jordan's teammates did it for him. LeBron's teammates did not. But Kobe and Jordan get the pass. LeBron does not. Again, the expectations for him coming out of high school were just too much for him to ever be successful.
Winning is winning man. You know that had the Jets went on to win the Super Bowl that you would have came to this board and so many guys would have stuck it in your face that we beat you guys twice last season. But winning is winning. If you guys had won it all after being "handed" a playoff spot...winning is winning. You either do or you don't. After LeBron wins his title people will point to the "help" that he had but in a few years it won't matter because all we look at is winning. My original post in this thread proves it. The Harris poll leaves no question.
The thing you don't realize about Antawn Jamison is that he was the number one option in Golden State years ago. Of course he's going to be a scoring threat. Pippen had Jordan. Jordan was the man. Jordan was the scorer. Antawn Jamison isn't in Pippen's league. Pippen was FAR superior defensively. One of the top three in the league defensively his entire career. Pippen could lock down anyone in the league. Jamison is a lazy defender. Jamison looks good on the highlight reel. That's about it. And Jamison averaged 15 points with LeBron. Sounds kinda similar to Pippen's 16 a game average with Jordan doesn't it.
Ferretsquig
Perennial All-Pro
You're saying Jamison is comparable to Pippen. And in your mind you can't be proven wrong.....
I love Jamison and I've watched the guy play since his time at Carolina. But he is what he is.....a scoring PF in a SF body who can't defend either position. He was lousy as a first option, pretty bad as a second option, and a great 6th man. Pippen he is not. And that comparison is just beyond inane.
I'm w/ you, I try to be realistic too.
When you enter the NBA out of HS and you embrace the "chosen one", "king" nicknames you open yourself up to criticism. He's been a great player in this league and he has been teflon despite the failings in big spots, he finally did something that gave him tons of negative press and that's his own fault not the fault of the press, fans or whoever else.
I have never disliked Lebron, I don't dislike him now(I don't know him) I just lost respect for him. I thought he could be a guy in the conversation w/ Jordan but he showed no guts in doing what he did. It's great for Heat fans and I tip my cap to Riley for pulling it off but I have felt the last few years that he has had teams capable of winning it all(I have rooted for him and Cle) and he failed to step up when his team needed him most.
I think this is different, this isn't some petty jealousy of a rival fan this is about the legacy of what could have been a top 3 all time player. I think assuming he wins 3-4 titles it will still always bew brought up about him running to a ready made championship team rather than fighting w/ another team.
Antawn averaged over 20 PPG in Washington where he wasn't the #1 option(except when Arenas was out). In the 3 full years w/ Arenas Antawn averaged 20 PPG. In his 2 years w/o Jordan in '94 and '95(I know Michael came back late) Pippen averaged 21.7 PPG. Obviously Pippen was the better defender but Antawn the better scorer and better 2nd scoring option.
Where have I said that? Another poster brought up how Michael had a sencond scoring option and Lebron didn't. Antawn is a better score than Pippen though obviously he's not the better player. I never said Antawn was better than Pippen, I never compared their overall games.
Ferretsquig
Perennial All-Pro
Were you watching basketball when Pippen was in his prime? Maybe Pippen during his last hurrah was a poorer option than Jamison during his Golden State years. Jamison was great in college and was built for that game......for no fault of his own he never found his place in the NBA. You can throw all the points per game stats you want around.....putting up 20 a game doesn't make you a great scorer or second option. Jamison fit well in two places, Golden State and Dallas.....state because they really didn't care about winning and he could chuck up as many shots as he wanted, and Dallas because he came off the bench in a role he was well suited for.
As a second or third option on a playoff team he was pretty lousy. The only evidence you need of that is any playoff game hes ever been in. He can't score against the big boys, can't rebound, and can't defend.
yes, I used to love NBA basketball but now I am bored w/ it so I watched Pippen in his prime and he was never a great scorer. Jamison is a better scorer but Pippen the better overall player.
Jamison found his role in this league and he has been a consistent scorer throughout his career. No he hasn't been a great player like he was in college but he's been a very productive pro.
he has averaged 18 and 8 in his postseason career so he can score in postseason. For a team w/ a megastar like Lebron he is a fine 2nd option, on a team w/ a lesser star maybe he'd be a good 3rd option buut on that team he and his teammates were more than good enough to win IF lebron played like he was capable of.
Dolphins7273
☠️ Banned ☠️
All this coming from a Yankee fan. I guess C.C. Sabathia, Mark Texeira, A-rod, and every other big name free agent the Yankees have signed wanted a championship handed to them...
Those guys aren't on a Lebron level but one guy who is did the same thing and that was ARod. he wanted a title handed to him, he wanted to jump on the Yankee train and b/c he couldn't play in October they didn't win until 5 years later. That would be funny if that also happened to Lebron.