Longs 40 time

[Breed]

I'm talking about OLB only,,, there are a few ILB in your list.

What's your point? Taking Willis and Vilma out of the equation would only further strengthen my point; consdiering they were both standouts at the combine. I don't care if you're an ILB or an OLB, those averages are very impressive.


40 yard dash
Chis Long: 4.75 (272 pounds)
Average LB listed: 4.63 (248 pounds)

20 yard dash
Chris Long: 2.70 (272 pounds)
Average LB listed: 2.70 (246 pounds)

10 yard dash
Chris Long: 1.53 (272 pounds)
Average LB listed: 1.60 (246 pounds)

20 yard shuttle
Chris Long: 4.21 (272 pounds)
Average LB listed: 4.20 (247 pounds)

3 cone drill
Chris Long: 7.02 (272 pounds)
Average LB listed: 7.02 (245 pounds)

If you want 5 to 6 sacks a year Long is your guy.they could always draft him and move him around, that wouldn't be so bad, but Bill knows manys others in the draft could do the same thing and be much better at it.

What do you base this on?

 

[funkDat]

What's your point? Taking Willis and Vilma out of the equation would only further strengthen my point; consdiering they were both standouts at the combine. I don't care if you're an ILB or an OLB, those averages are very impressive.


40 yard dash
Chis Long: 4.75 (272 pounds)
Average LB listed: 4.63 (248 pounds)

20 yard dash
Chris Long: 2.70 (272 pounds)
Average LB listed: 2.70 (246 pounds)

10 yard dash
Chris Long: 1.53 (272 pounds)
Average LB listed: 1.60 (246 pounds)

20 yard shuttle
Chris Long: 4.21 (272 pounds)
Average LB listed: 4.20 (247 pounds)

3 cone drill
Chris Long: 7.02 (272 pounds)
Average LB listed: 7.02 (245 pounds)



What do you base this on?

ummmmmmmmmmmmmmm his lack of speed,,,,,,,,,,,,,,i'll be back later after the draft and then we'll all talk again.later

 

[Breed]

ummmmmmmmmmmmmmm his lack of speed,,,,,,,,,,,,,,i'll be back later after the draft and then we'll all talk again.later

There's nothing to base this "lack of speed" on. Any claim of him being slow is hearsay given all the evidence that shows otherwise.

 

[sceeto]

Hey! My man! It's funny, but I was going to start a thread about similar concerns about C. Long. It's just that, when you see him in games or on the many youtube clips around, you don't see him get to the QB a lot. Don't get me wrong, he's in on every play, but you rarely see him flying around the edge and smashing the QB like other great OLB's of the past and present. You always see him pushing up and getting his hands up to deflect the pass, which seems like his best move.

You also don't see him blowing up his blockers to get to the QB. Like I said, it's push up 3ft or so and deflect the pass. If you are drafting a OLB #1 overall, he BETTER be able to get to and terrorize the QB.

I feel tackles or even big, strong fullbacks in the NFL, will be able to put him in his place.JMHO.

I've always said, I think C. Long could do so much for this franchise in terms of character, attitude and work ethic, but these issues really worry me about him and taking him #1 overall.

 

[Pinkboy]

Hey! My man! It's funny, but I was going to start a thread about similar concerns about C. Long. It's just that, when you see him in games or on the many youtube clips around, you don't see him get to the QB a lot. Don't get me wrong, he's in on every play, but you rarely see him flying around the edge and smashing the QB like other great OLB's of the past and present. You always see him pushing up and getting his hands up to deflect the pass, which seems like his best move.

You also don't see him blowing up his blockers to get to the QB. Like I said, it's push up 3ft or so and deflect the pass. If you are drafting a OLB #1 overall, he BETTER be able to get to and terrorize the QB.

Well that's false. What's funny about your post is Chris Long had over 70 QB hurries from 05-07. More than twice Gholston had when going by percentage of hurries per season (or per game no matter which way you break it down).

 

[Pinkboy]

If we're going simply by 40 time, Greenway and Long are comparable. Greenway ran a 4.76 40 time while Long ran a 4.75 40 time. The difference being? Long weighed 30 more pounds when he ran his time.

20 yard dash
Long: 2.70
Greenway: 2.75

10 yard dash
Long: 1.53
Greenway: 1.61

20 yard shuttle
Long: 4.21
Greenway: 4.22

3 cone drill
Long: 7.02
Greenway: 7.01

Keep in mind, the 10 and 20 yard dashes are such low numbers, that a .05 of a second is almost the equivalent to .10 of a second in the 40 time. So Long blows him away in the quickness/acceleration drills, but is his equal in the agility drills. BTW, Greenway was considered one of the best (if not the best) coverage linebackers in that draft class.



2002-2006 would be 6 years, but whatever.

Going over the linebackers I could find since 2002, here's how their combines compared to Long's. I've added some defensive ends to the list that have played a 3-4 defense in the NFL. All these players were 1st round picks....

40 time
Ernie Simms: 4.50 (231 pounds)
Robert Thomas: 4.51 (229 pounds)
Patrick Willis: 4.51 (242 pounds)
Derrick Johnson: 4.52 (242 pounds)
Jonathan Vilma: 4.54 (233 pounds)
D.J. Williams: 4.54 (250 pounds)
Napoleon Harris: 4.55 (253 pounds)
DeMarcus Ware: 4.56 (251 pounds)
A.J. Hawk: 4.59 (248 pounds)
Kamerion Wimbley: 4.61 (248 pounds)
Shawne Merriman: 4.64 (272 pounds)*Pro Day
Bobby Carpenter: 4.65 (256 pounds)*Pro Day
Terrell Suggs: 4.65 (257 pounds)
Lawrence Timmons: 4.66 (234 pounds)
Nick Barnett: 4.67 (236 pounds)
Anthony Spencer: 4.70 (261 pounds)
Jon Beason: 4.72 (237 pounds)
Chris Long: 4.75 (272 pounds)
David Pollack: 4.75 (265 pounds)
Chad Greenway: 4.76 (242 pounds)
Calvin Pace: 4.79 (269 pounds)

20 yard dash
Robert Thomas: 2.58 (229 pounds)
Patrick Willis: 2.62 (242 pounds)
Ernie Simms: 2.64 (231 pounds)
Napoleon Harris: 2.64 (253 pounds)
Derrick Johnson: 2.66 (242 pounds)
Lawrence Timmons: 2.68 (234 pounds)
Chris Long: 2.70 (272 pounds)
DeMarcus Ware: 2.71 (251 pounds)
David Pollack: 2.71 (265 pounds)
A.J. Hawk: 2.72 (248 pounds)
Jon Beason: 2.74 (237 pounds)
Kamerion Wimbley: 2.74 (248 pounds)
Anthony Spencer: 2.74 (261 pounds)
Nick Barnett: 2.75 (236 pounds)
Chad Greenway: 2.75 (242 pounds)
Calvin Pace: 2.86 (269 pounds)
Terrell Suggs: NA
Jonathan Vilma: NA
D.J. Williams: NA
Shawne Merriman: NA
Bobby Carpenter: NA

10 yard dash
Lawrence Timmons: 1.50 (234 pounds)
Patrick Willis: 1.53 (242 pounds)
Chris Long: 1.53 (272 pounds)
Ernie Simms: 1.54 (231 pounds)
A.J. Hawk: 1.56 (248 pounds)
Robert Thomas: 1.57 (229 pounds)
Jon Beason: 1.60 (237 pounds)
Kamerion Wimbley: 1.60 (248 pounds)
Napoleon Harris: 1.60 (253 pounds)
Derrick Johnson: 1.61 (242 pounds)
Chad Greenway: 1.61 (242 pounds)
DeMarcus Ware: 1.62 (251 pounds)
Anthony Spencer: 1.64 (261 pounds)
Nick Barnett: 1.65 (236 pounds)
David Pollack: 1.67 (265 pounds)
Calvin Pace: 1.74 (269 pounds)
Terrell Suggs: NA
Jonathan Vilma: NA
D.J. Williams: NA
Shawne Merriman: NA
Bobby Carpenter: NA

20 yard shuttle
Derrick Johnson: 3.93 (242 pounds)
David Pollack: 3.94 (265 pounds)
A.J. Hawk: 3.96 (248 pounds)
D.J. Williams: 4.05 (250 pounds)*Pro Day
DeMarcus Ware: 4.07 (251 pounds)
Nick Barnett: 4.08 (236 pounds)
Robert Thomas: 4.10 (229 pounds)
Jonathan Vilma: 4.20 (233 pounds)*Pro Day
Chris Long: 4.21 (272 pounds)
Shawne Merriman: 4.21 (272 pounds)*Pro Day
Chad Greenway: 4.22 (242 pounds)
Ernie Simms: 4.23 (231 pounds)
Bobby Carpenter: 4.31 (256 pounds)*Pro Day
Lawrence Timmons: 4.32 (234 pounds)
Antony Spencer: 4.43 (261 pounds)
Napoleon Harris: 4.44 (253 pounds)
Patrick Wills: 4.46 (242 pounds)
Kamerion Wimbley: 4.48 (248 pounds)
Calvin Pace: NA
Terrell Suggs: NA
Jon Beason: NA

3 cone drill
Jonathan Vilma: 6.67 (233 pounds)*Pro Day
A.J. Hawk: 6.82 (248 pounds)
DeMarcus Ware: 6.85 (251 pounds)
David Pollack: 6.87 (265 pounds)
Bobby Carpenter: 6.88 (256 pounds)*Pro Day
Lawrence Timmons: 6.92 (234 pounds)
Kameron Wimbley: 6.98 (248 pounds)
Nick Barnett: 7.00 (236 pounds)
D.J. Williams: 7.00 (250 pounds)*Pro Day
Chad Greenway: 7.01 (242 pounds)
Chris Long: 7.02 (272 pounds)
Anthony Spencer: 7.14 (261 pounds)
Napoleon Harris: 7.15 (253 pounds)
Robert Thomas: 7.21 (229 pounds)
Derrick Johnson: 7.21 (242 pounds)
Patrick Willis: 7.23 (242 pounds)
Ernie Simms: 7.32 (231 pounds)
Calvin Pace: NA
Terrell Suggs: NA
Shawne Merriman: NA
Jon Beason: NA

Keep in mind, every one of these players were 1st round picks. Athletically, they're the cream of the crop.

Averaging out the players that participated in these drills, here's how they look like on average compared to Chris Long:

40 yard dash
Chis Long: 4.75 (272 pounds)
Average LB listed: 4.63 (248 pounds)

20 yard dash
Chris Long: 2.70 (272 pounds)
Average LB listed: 2.70 (246 pounds)

10 yard dash
Chris Long: 1.53 (272 pounds)
Average LB listed: 1.60 (246 pounds)

20 yard shuttle
Chris Long: 4.21 (272 pounds)
Average LB listed: 4.20 (247 pounds)

3 cone drill
Chris Long: 7.02 (272 pounds)
Average LB listed: 7.02 (245 pounds)

This group of linebackers Long is going up against in this statistical breakdown are 1st round picks, in large part because they are physical specimens. The fact that Long equals most of their statistical performances despite being 24-27 pounds heavier, is a true testment to his incredible athleticism.



"Said Rams Executive V.P. of Player Personnel Billy Devaney of Virginia DE Chris Long, “I don’t think [pass rushing] is his forte"

Even if that quote is true, it's not really a knock on Chris Long.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forte

"Forte, an individual's strongest talent or greatest strength"

If anything, that's fairly high praise. It simply means he does other things as well, or better than what his perceived strength is.



....and you base this on what?



Merriman went from 249 pounds after the season ended to around 272 pounds right before the combine. There were serious concerns about Merriman and steroids before the draft, and you know the rest of the story.





Backtrack much? What would make him a "good/great" 4-3? Answer: His overall athleticism for his size. Hmm, that sounds an awful lot like Merriman.



He spent the majority of his collegiate career as a 3-4 DE, expecting anything more would've been a huge stretch.



I want the BPA, and I feel Chris Long is the BPA. So to answer your question, yes, I would be thrilled if we picked Chris Long with the 1st overall pick.

An OLB with the athleticism of the average 1st round pick (LB), despite being 24-27 pounds heavier than the average 1st round LB, that has the ability to play the run, and get after the QB.

5-star post.

That ends the discussion. Long >> Gholston.

Good job on that writeup and research. That should put any questions to rest on Chris Long's athleticism. In the 20 yard shuttle Chris Long had a 4.21 time. Gholston had a 4.40 time. And there were plenty of other drills and splits where Long beat Gholston clearly.. Long is more agile and a better football player than Gholston..

 

[sceeto]

Well that's false. What's funny about your post is Chris Long had over 70 QB hurries from 05-07. More than twice Gholston had when going by percentage of hurries per season (or per game no matter which way you break it down).

Exactly my point! Hurries...I agree, you see a lot of that, not sacks or the kind you'd expect from a guy taken that high. I think "hurries" as you say are important, but if you are drafting a OLB #1 overall he better get more than "hurries":up:

 

[Pinkboy]

Exactly my point! Hurries...I agree, you see a lot of that, not sacks or the kind you'd expect from a guy taken that high. I think "hurries" as you say are important, but if you are drafting a OLB #1 overall he better get more than "hurries":up:

He disrupted the QB more than any defensive prospect over the last 3 years. By far. And he caused more negative plays in his hurries than any other defensive prospect.

Plus he got 14 sacks last season.. He more than doubled Gholston in tackles (79 to 37).. And Long did it while he was DOUBLE TEAMED.. Gholston was single teamed.

You cannot ignore the double team attention. And even with double team attention, Long outperformed Gholston by a large margin.. And he has shown to be just as athletic, and more athletic than Gholston in plenty of areas.

 

[sceeto]

He got disrupted the QB more than any defensive prospect over the last 3 years. By far. And he caused more negative plays in his hurries than any other defensive prospect.

Plus he got 14 sacks last season.. He more than doubled Gholston in tackles (79 to 37).. And Long did it while he was DOUBLE TEAMED.. Gholston was single teamed.

You cannot ignore the double team attention. And even with double team attention, Long outperformed Gholston by a large margin.. And he has shown to be just as athletic, and more athletic than Gholston in plenty of areas.

I'm not a Gholston supporter at all.

 

[Pinkboy]

You are really underrating hurries here.

Understand that Hurries lead to INT's, turnovers by QB's, as well as negative plays by the offense.

A defensive player that can disrupt so well is valued greatly. And when he can disrupt the passing game AND the running game as well as Long can, combined with his athleticism, leadership and top notch technique abilities, you have yourself a player who is easily worthy of a top selection.

 

[sceeto]

He got disrupted the QB more than any defensive prospect over the last 3 years. By far. And he caused more negative plays in his hurries than any other defensive prospect.

Plus he got 14 sacks last season.. He more than doubled Gholston in tackles (79 to 37).. And Long did it while he was DOUBLE TEAMED.. Gholston was single teamed.

You cannot ignore the double team attention. And even with double team attention, Long outperformed Gholston by a large margin.. And he has shown to be just as athletic, and more athletic than Gholston in plenty of areas.

Like I've said before and in my 1st response now here, I really like C. Long and have gone between him and Jake for a while now, even though I've always liked Jake the most for the pick and still do. These are just some concerns I have of C. Long after watching more tape on him. I really, really want J. Long though and someone like Q. Groves in the 2nd.

 

[sceeto]

You are really underrating hurries here.

Understand that Hurries lead to INT's, turnovers by QB's, as well as negative plays by the offense.

A defensive player that can disrupt so well is valued greatly. And when he can disrupt the passing game AND the running game as well as Long can, combined with his athleticism, leadership and top notch technique abilities, you have yourself a player who is easily worthy of a top selection.

No, I said I feel hurries are very important, and something he's great at, it's just that a OLB taken that high should also strike fear into the opposing QB by putting him in the turf a few times.

 

[Pinkboy]

No, I said I feel hurries are very important, and something he's great at, it's just that a OLB taken that high should also strike fear into the opposing QB by putting him in the turf a few times.

14 times last year buddy..

And it would have been 18 sacks had penalties not been called by the defense (4 penalties that had nothing to do with his side of the ball, so it had no effect on aiding those additional sacks he would have had).

 

[sceeto]

14 times last year buddy..

And it would have been 18 sacks had penalties not been called by the defense (4 penalties that had nothing to do with his side of the ball, so it had no effect on aiding those additional sacks he would have had).

I know the stats, it's just when I watch him on tape, even the sacks he gets, it's always like reaching out a just barely getting a hand on his jersey or something, and I know a sack is a sack, but in the NFL a lot of those he won't be so lucky to get IMO. He's not in a weak division but definitely not the strongest. There's going to be a steap learning curve going to the NFL for him. IMO. Read the whole post though and I explain how I don't dislike C. Long, on the contrary, if you read the whole post.

 

[sceeto]

With that said, C. Long is my 2nd. choice for the reasons I said before. These are just some concerns I have. I hope I'm wrong.