Longs 40 time

[finner]

Come on, get real. If the 40 isn’t a “football barometer” then EVERY NFL and college team etc. is wrong to rely on this measure of an athletes speed as it pertains to his performance POTENTIAL on the field. Bottom line, if Chris Long had cut a 4.4 everyone would be freaking doing flips about his “awesome speed.” Inversely, the lack of demonstrated “speed” needs to be noted as well --- for the sake of intellectual integrity and rational fairness – not to mention the viable “football barometer” aspect.

Chris Long is measurably SLOW (as opposed to fast) and may make up for that in college via technique etc., but IMO his lack of speed as an NFL OLB is major factor to consider as the #1 pick in the entire draft.

 

[dabeastdabone]

yeah, 40 times aren't important for pro football players...or at least not important to those pro football players who can teleport!

 

[funkDat]

Well,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, After all this time no one has come up with any sort of solid reason why Long would do any better in the NFL them Chad.I wonder why...............?

Thanks for playing along, and don't forget to vote for who you think will be a "bust" in this years draft.

And don't forget all you "crazy" guys no name calling.Keep it clean and fun:) now go vote!!!

 

[zach8111]

the only forty times that really matter are the ones for WR's CB's, S, RB's because how many times do you run for forty yards striaght. i think in chris longs case you should look at his 10/20 time over the 40...which his 10/20 team is good. and his other workouts were amazing

 

[3rdandinches]

It's along the same line as Bench Press doesn't really matter for a CB but the 40 is pretty important. If C.Long ran a 4.5 let's say, yes people would be doing backflips over him beacause everything else about the kid is top notch. His forty is the only thing people are questioning and Gholston's 40 is half the reason people want him. Since when does production on the field not matter, it seems to be important when arguing M.Ryan i.e. his high interceptions. But Gholston looks the part of a OLB but only excels at the pass rush in which C.Long is just as compareable except his 40. C.long is more effective against the run and equally effective against the pass so where's the real advantage taking Gholston. Oh wait I know it's in this perceived notion that Gholston has more potential then Long.

 

[funkDat]

Lol,, no the 40 times do mean something to the nfl cuzz like i said only one OLB "top 6 OLB in the class" in the past 5 drafts has been as slow as Long and that guy still doesn't have a sack.

That is a fact no one can get around.Your playing rushin roulette with 5 bullets in the Chambar if you draft Long and put him at OLB.

 

[funkDat]

I wish i knew you two in real life cuzz i bet a'ya a boat load of money on this lol.

 

[CANDolphan]

You're also forgetting Defensive Ends who are drafted to play OLB in the 3-4.

David Pollack ran a slower 40 time, and until his career ending injury, he looked fantastic. He got 4.5 sacks in limited playing time and he was converted from DE to OLB.

Do you really TRULY think that all the NFL scouts and GMs are incorrect about Chris Long being one of the best OLBs for the 3-4 in this draft?

You still have yet to explain how Calvin Pace was such a hot item after not only running a slow 40 yard dash time than Chris Long, but not having even close to the measurables/skills that he has.

 

[dabeastdabone]

You still have yet to explain how Calvin Pace was such a hot item after not only running a slow 40 yard dash time than Chris Long, but not having even close to the measurables/skills that he has.

Yeah, we saw how hard BP went after Pace...and that wasn't with the 1st pick of the draft

 

[funkDat]

You're also forgetting Defensive Ends who are drafted to play OLB in the 3-4.

David Pollack ran a slower 40 time, and until his career ending injury, he looked fantastic. He got 4.5 sacks in limited playing time and he was converted from DE to OLB.

Do you really TRULY think that all the NFL scouts and GMs are incorrect about Chris Long being one of the best OLBs for the 3-4 in this draft?

You still have yet to explain how Calvin Pace was such a hot item after not only running a slow 40 yard dash time than Chris Long, but not having even close to the measurables/skills that he has.

I've all ready talked about Calvin Pace,,,,,,,,they may have taking that post down just like some others they have taking down around here.

Calvin Pace still has not done much in the NFL.He showed last year he could play some and wasn't a "bust".Teams get desperate in FA every year.There are only a few teams that run a 3-4.So any time you have a guy come into FA thats shows he can be a good player in it he will demande more money then good 4-3 OLB because 3-4 OLB are much harder to find.

David Pollack please man the guy got hurt, so we ill never know.I don't remember any time at all him looking fantastic.What i do remember was him having a hard time trying to play OLB in the NFL, and that is why he only had limited playing time.

On a side note ~Thanks for posting again because every time you do, you make my point even stronger.Thanks man :up:

 

[Tim1958]

I think the 40 time is more important than being a good football player at LB. After all Jackie Shipp had a much better 40 time than 5th rounder Zach Thomas!

 

[funkDat]

LOL, True dat, and exactly my point. Some of them can still ball! If all you had to do is weigh, measure and time players there would never be a draft bust. But some guys can just play ball and some can't. It is never as simple as just timing the 40!

Hey we think alike, nice.

 

[miamiron]

he's a real good player man , but he looks super slow on tape.

Thats quite funny you would say he looks super slow on film when his 10 yard times are quite impressive at 1.53
seconds the same as Deshaun Jackson and Rasheed Mendenhall but faster than Limas Sweed,James Hardy,Quentin Groves and Xavier Adibi.

His 20 yard time was also very good at 2.70 seconds

His 20 yard shuttle at 4.21 seconds is incredible for his size...Gholsteen had a 4.40 time.

His 3 cone time of 7.02 was also very good

so it's obvious that you have not seen very much tape
at all regarding Long otherwise your statement makes no sense whatsoever and is downright wrong

Check out his times and compare them to not only defensive ends and linebackers but compare them to running backs and wide receivers and end and you will see just how fast and quick Long really is:hi5:

 

[Breed]

In the past five years there has only been one top six OLB that had a slower timed 40 then Long.

Say Hello to Chad Greenway.He was drafted in 2006,missed his 1st year, but played all 16 games last year and didn't get even one sack.

Thoughts..........

If we're going simply by 40 time, Greenway and Long are comparable. Greenway ran a 4.76 40 time while Long ran a 4.75 40 time. The difference being? Long weighed 30 more pounds when he ran his time.

20 yard dash
Long: 2.70
Greenway: 2.75

10 yard dash
Long: 1.53
Greenway: 1.61

20 yard shuttle
Long: 4.21
Greenway: 4.22

3 cone drill
Long: 7.02
Greenway: 7.01

Keep in mind, the 10 and 20 yard dashes are such low numbers, that a .05 of a second is almost the equivalent to .10 of a second in the 40 time. So Long blows him away in the quickness/acceleration drills, but is his equal in the agility drills. BTW, Greenway was considered one of the best (if not the best) coverage linebackers in that draft class.

I even went back and looked at the past drafts, from the past 5 years of the top 6 OLB's in the drafts, from 2002 to 2007, and only one guy ran right about what Long did in the 40 yard dash, out of 30 guys.

Again,,, only one out of all them top 30 guys was as slow as Long in the 40, and he has yet to get a sack in the NFL.

2002-2006 would be 6 years, but whatever.

Going over the linebackers I could find since 2002, here's how their combines compared to Long's. I've added some defensive ends to the list that have played a 3-4 defense in the NFL. All these players were 1st round picks....

40 time
Ernie Simms: 4.50 (231 pounds)
Robert Thomas: 4.51 (229 pounds)
Patrick Willis: 4.51 (242 pounds)
Derrick Johnson: 4.52 (242 pounds)
Jonathan Vilma: 4.54 (233 pounds)
D.J. Williams: 4.54 (250 pounds)
Napoleon Harris: 4.55 (253 pounds)
DeMarcus Ware: 4.56 (251 pounds)
A.J. Hawk: 4.59 (248 pounds)
Kamerion Wimbley: 4.61 (248 pounds)
Shawne Merriman: 4.64 (272 pounds)*Pro Day
Bobby Carpenter: 4.65 (256 pounds)*Pro Day
Terrell Suggs: 4.65 (257 pounds)
Lawrence Timmons: 4.66 (234 pounds)
Nick Barnett: 4.67 (236 pounds)
Anthony Spencer: 4.70 (261 pounds)
Jon Beason: 4.72 (237 pounds)
Chris Long: 4.75 (272 pounds)
David Pollack: 4.75 (265 pounds)
Chad Greenway: 4.76 (242 pounds)
Calvin Pace: 4.79 (269 pounds)

20 yard dash
Robert Thomas: 2.58 (229 pounds)
Patrick Willis: 2.62 (242 pounds)
Ernie Simms: 2.64 (231 pounds)
Napoleon Harris: 2.64 (253 pounds)
Derrick Johnson: 2.66 (242 pounds)
Lawrence Timmons: 2.68 (234 pounds)
Chris Long: 2.70 (272 pounds)
DeMarcus Ware: 2.71 (251 pounds)
David Pollack: 2.71 (265 pounds)
A.J. Hawk: 2.72 (248 pounds)
Jon Beason: 2.74 (237 pounds)
Kamerion Wimbley: 2.74 (248 pounds)
Anthony Spencer: 2.74 (261 pounds)
Nick Barnett: 2.75 (236 pounds)
Chad Greenway: 2.75 (242 pounds)
Calvin Pace: 2.86 (269 pounds)
Terrell Suggs: NA
Jonathan Vilma: NA
D.J. Williams: NA
Shawne Merriman: NA
Bobby Carpenter: NA

10 yard dash
Lawrence Timmons: 1.50 (234 pounds)
Patrick Willis: 1.53 (242 pounds)
Chris Long: 1.53 (272 pounds)
Ernie Simms: 1.54 (231 pounds)
A.J. Hawk: 1.56 (248 pounds)
Robert Thomas: 1.57 (229 pounds)
Jon Beason: 1.60 (237 pounds)
Kamerion Wimbley: 1.60 (248 pounds)
Napoleon Harris: 1.60 (253 pounds)
Derrick Johnson: 1.61 (242 pounds)
Chad Greenway: 1.61 (242 pounds)
DeMarcus Ware: 1.62 (251 pounds)
Anthony Spencer: 1.64 (261 pounds)
Nick Barnett: 1.65 (236 pounds)
David Pollack: 1.67 (265 pounds)
Calvin Pace: 1.74 (269 pounds)
Terrell Suggs: NA
Jonathan Vilma: NA
D.J. Williams: NA
Shawne Merriman: NA
Bobby Carpenter: NA

20 yard shuttle
Derrick Johnson: 3.93 (242 pounds)
David Pollack: 3.94 (265 pounds)
A.J. Hawk: 3.96 (248 pounds)
D.J. Williams: 4.05 (250 pounds)*Pro Day
DeMarcus Ware: 4.07 (251 pounds)
Nick Barnett: 4.08 (236 pounds)
Robert Thomas: 4.10 (229 pounds)
Jonathan Vilma: 4.20 (233 pounds)*Pro Day
Chris Long: 4.21 (272 pounds)
Shawne Merriman: 4.21 (272 pounds)*Pro Day
Chad Greenway: 4.22 (242 pounds)
Ernie Simms: 4.23 (231 pounds)
Bobby Carpenter: 4.31 (256 pounds)*Pro Day
Lawrence Timmons: 4.32 (234 pounds)
Antony Spencer: 4.43 (261 pounds)
Napoleon Harris: 4.44 (253 pounds)
Patrick Wills: 4.46 (242 pounds)
Kamerion Wimbley: 4.48 (248 pounds)
Calvin Pace: NA
Terrell Suggs: NA
Jon Beason: NA

3 cone drill
Jonathan Vilma: 6.67 (233 pounds)*Pro Day
A.J. Hawk: 6.82 (248 pounds)
DeMarcus Ware: 6.85 (251 pounds)
David Pollack: 6.87 (265 pounds)
Bobby Carpenter: 6.88 (256 pounds)*Pro Day
Lawrence Timmons: 6.92 (234 pounds)
Kameron Wimbley: 6.98 (248 pounds)
Nick Barnett: 7.00 (236 pounds)
D.J. Williams: 7.00 (250 pounds)*Pro Day
Chad Greenway: 7.01 (242 pounds)
Chris Long: 7.02 (272 pounds)
Anthony Spencer: 7.14 (261 pounds)
Napoleon Harris: 7.15 (253 pounds)
Robert Thomas: 7.21 (229 pounds)
Derrick Johnson: 7.21 (242 pounds)
Patrick Willis: 7.23 (242 pounds)
Ernie Simms: 7.32 (231 pounds)
Calvin Pace: NA
Terrell Suggs: NA
Shawne Merriman: NA
Jon Beason: NA

Keep in mind, every one of these players were 1st round picks. Athletically, they're the cream of the crop.

Averaging out the players that participated in these drills, here's how they look like on average compared to Chris Long:

40 yard dash
Chis Long: 4.75 (272 pounds)
Average LB listed: 4.63 (248 pounds)

20 yard dash
Chris Long: 2.70 (272 pounds)
Average LB listed: 2.70 (246 pounds)

10 yard dash
Chris Long: 1.53 (272 pounds)
Average LB listed: 1.60 (246 pounds)

20 yard shuttle
Chris Long: 4.21 (272 pounds)
Average LB listed: 4.20 (247 pounds)

3 cone drill
Chris Long: 7.02 (272 pounds)
Average LB listed: 7.02 (245 pounds)

This group of linebackers Long is going up against in this statistical breakdown are 1st round picks, in large part because they are physical specimens. The fact that Long equals most of their statistical performances despite being 24-27 pounds heavier, is a true testment to his incredible athleticism.

So odd's are he's not going to be good rushing the passer in the NFL.One GM/VP , has even said the same, and that info is in this Thread.

"Said Rams Executive V.P. of Player Personnel Billy Devaney of Virginia DE Chris Long, “I don’t think [pass rushing] is his forte"

Even if that quote is true, it's not really a knock on Chris Long.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forte

"Forte, an individual's strongest talent or greatest strength"

If anything, that's fairly high praise. It simply means he does other things as well, or better than what his perceived strength is.

And the end is this : Vernon Gholston is the Lawrence Julius Taylor of the draft and Chirs Long is the Carl E. Banks.

....and you base this on what?

Meriman is on drugs that make him run faster, and he stop taking them before he ran.So his time is going to be slower then what he plays at.

Merriman went from 249 pounds after the season ended to around 272 pounds right before the combine. There were serious concerns about Merriman and steroids before the draft, and you know the rest of the story.

His lack of speed/Acceleration around the edge/and overall lack of speed for a 3-4 OLB would be a waste our #1 overall pick and a waste of his talents.

In short what i'm saying is, Long would make a good/great DE in the 4-3.

Backtrack much? What would make him a "good/great" 4-3? Answer: His overall athleticism for his size. Hmm, that sounds an awful lot like Merriman.

So please tell me how this long guy who only got a sack every other game in college as a DE is going to pan out in the NFL when he going to spend 1/2 is day running with TE's as a LOLB.

He spent the majority of his collegiate career as a 3-4 DE, expecting anything more would've been a huge stretch.

In other words he would not be our speed rusher he'd be our cover OLB.Is that what you want from your # 1 overall pick?

I want the BPA, and I feel Chris Long is the BPA. So to answer your question, yes, I would be thrilled if we picked Chris Long with the 1st overall pick.

An OLB with the athleticism of the average 1st round pick (LB), despite being 24-27 pounds heavier than the average 1st round LB, that has the ability to play the run, and get after the QB.

 

[funkDat]

If we're going simply by 40 time, Greenway and Long are comparable. Greenway ran a 4.76 40 time while Long ran a 4.75 40 time. The difference being? Long weighed 30 more pounds when he ran his time.

20 yard dash
Long: 2.70
Greenway: 2.75

10 yard dash
Long: 1.53
Greenway: 1.61

20 yard shuttle
Long: 4.21
Greenway: 4.22

3 cone drill
Long: 7.02
Greenway: 7.01

Keep in mind, the 10 and 20 yard dashes are such low numbers, that a .05 of a second is almost the equivalent to .10 of a second in the 40 time. So Long blows him away in the quickness/acceleration drills, but is his equal in the agility drills. BTW, Greenway was considered one of the best (if not the best) coverage linebackers in that draft class.



2002-2006 would be 6 years, but whatever.

Going over the linebackers I could find since 2002, here's how their combines compared to Long's. I've added some defensive ends to the list that have played a 3-4 defense in the NFL. All these players were 1st round picks....

40 time
Ernie Simms: 4.50 (231 pounds)
Robert Thomas: 4.51 (229 pounds)
Patrick Willis: 4.51 (242 pounds)
Derrick Johnson: 4.52 (242 pounds)
Jonathan Vilma: 4.54 (233 pounds)
D.J. Williams: 4.54 (250 pounds)
Napoleon Harris: 4.55 (253 pounds)
DeMarcus Ware: 4.56 (251 pounds)
A.J. Hawk: 4.59 (248 pounds)
Kamerion Wimbley: 4.61 (248 pounds)
Shawne Merriman: 4.64 (272 pounds)*Pro Day
Bobby Carpenter: 4.65 (256 pounds)*Pro Day
Terrell Suggs: 4.65 (257 pounds)
Lawrence Timmons: 4.66 (234 pounds)
Nick Barnett: 4.67 (236 pounds)
Anthony Spencer: 4.70 (261 pounds)
Jon Beason: 4.72 (237 pounds)
Chris Long: 4.75 (272 pounds)
David Pollack: 4.75 (265 pounds)
Chad Greenway: 4.76 (242 pounds)
Calvin Pace: 4.79 (269 pounds)

20 yard dash
Robert Thomas: 2.58 (229 pounds)
Patrick Willis: 2.62 (242 pounds)
Ernie Simms: 2.64 (231 pounds)
Napoleon Harris: 2.64 (253 pounds)
Derrick Johnson: 2.66 (242 pounds)
Lawrence Timmons: 2.68 (234 pounds)
Chris Long: 2.70 (272 pounds)
DeMarcus Ware: 2.71 (251 pounds)
David Pollack: 2.71 (265 pounds)
A.J. Hawk: 2.72 (248 pounds)
Jon Beason: 2.74 (237 pounds)
Kamerion Wimbley: 2.74 (248 pounds)
Anthony Spencer: 2.74 (261 pounds)
Nick Barnett: 2.75 (236 pounds)
Chad Greenway: 2.75 (242 pounds)
Calvin Pace: 2.86 (269 pounds)
Terrell Suggs: NA
Jonathan Vilma: NA
D.J. Williams: NA
Shawne Merriman: NA
Bobby Carpenter: NA

10 yard dash
Lawrence Timmons: 1.50 (234 pounds)
Patrick Willis: 1.53 (242 pounds)
Chris Long: 1.53 (272 pounds)
Ernie Simms: 1.54 (231 pounds)
A.J. Hawk: 1.56 (248 pounds)
Robert Thomas: 1.57 (229 pounds)
Jon Beason: 1.60 (237 pounds)
Kamerion Wimbley: 1.60 (248 pounds)
Napoleon Harris: 1.60 (253 pounds)
Derrick Johnson: 1.61 (242 pounds)
Chad Greenway: 1.61 (242 pounds)
DeMarcus Ware: 1.62 (251 pounds)
Anthony Spencer: 1.64 (261 pounds)
Nick Barnett: 1.65 (236 pounds)
David Pollack: 1.67 (265 pounds)
Calvin Pace: 1.74 (269 pounds)
Terrell Suggs: NA
Jonathan Vilma: NA
D.J. Williams: NA
Shawne Merriman: NA
Bobby Carpenter: NA

20 yard shuttle
Derrick Johnson: 3.93 (242 pounds)
David Pollack: 3.94 (265 pounds)
A.J. Hawk: 3.96 (248 pounds)
D.J. Williams: 4.05 (250 pounds)*Pro Day
DeMarcus Ware: 4.07 (251 pounds)
Nick Barnett: 4.08 (236 pounds)
Robert Thomas: 4.10 (229 pounds)
Jonathan Vilma: 4.20 (233 pounds)*Pro Day
Chris Long: 4.21 (272 pounds)
Shawne Merriman: 4.21 (272 pounds)*Pro Day
Chad Greenway: 4.22 (242 pounds)
Ernie Simms: 4.23 (231 pounds)
Bobby Carpenter: 4.31 (256 pounds)*Pro Day
Lawrence Timmons: 4.32 (234 pounds)
Antony Spencer: 4.43 (261 pounds)
Napoleon Harris: 4.44 (253 pounds)
Patrick Wills: 4.46 (242 pounds)
Kamerion Wimbley: 4.48 (248 pounds)
Calvin Pace: NA
Terrell Suggs: NA
Jon Beason: NA

3 cone drill
Jonathan Vilma: 6.67 (233 pounds)*Pro Day
A.J. Hawk: 6.82 (248 pounds)
DeMarcus Ware: 6.85 (251 pounds)
David Pollack: 6.87 (265 pounds)
Bobby Carpenter: 6.88 (256 pounds)*Pro Day
Lawrence Timmons: 6.92 (234 pounds)
Kameron Wimbley: 6.98 (248 pounds)
Nick Barnett: 7.00 (236 pounds)
D.J. Williams: 7.00 (250 pounds)*Pro Day
Chad Greenway: 7.01 (242 pounds)
Chris Long: 7.02 (272 pounds)
Anthony Spencer: 7.14 (261 pounds)
Napoleon Harris: 7.15 (253 pounds)
Robert Thomas: 7.21 (229 pounds)
Derrick Johnson: 7.21 (242 pounds)
Patrick Willis: 7.23 (242 pounds)
Ernie Simms: 7.32 (231 pounds)
Calvin Pace: NA
Terrell Suggs: NA
Shawne Merriman: NA
Jon Beason: NA

Keep in mind, every one of these players were 1st round picks. Athletically, they're the cream of the crop.

Averaging out the players that participated in these drills, here's how they look like on average compared to Chris Long:

40 yard dash
Chis Long: 4.75 (272 pounds)
Average LB listed: 4.63 (248 pounds)

20 yard dash
Chris Long: 2.70 (272 pounds)
Average LB listed: 2.70 (246 pounds)

10 yard dash
Chris Long: 1.53 (272 pounds)
Average LB listed: 1.60 (246 pounds)

20 yard shuttle
Chris Long: 4.21 (272 pounds)
Average LB listed: 4.20 (247 pounds)

3 cone drill
Chris Long: 7.02 (272 pounds)
Average LB listed: 7.02 (245 pounds)

This group of linebackers Long is going up against in this statistical breakdown are 1st round picks, in large part because they are physical specimens. The fact that Long equals most of their statistical performances despite being 24-27 pounds heavier, is a true testment to his incredible athleticism.



"Said Rams Executive V.P. of Player Personnel Billy Devaney of Virginia DE Chris Long, “I don’t think [pass rushing] is his forte"

Even if that quote is true, it's not really a knock on Chris Long.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forte

"Forte, an individual's strongest talent or greatest strength"

If anything, that's fairly high praise. It simply means he does other things as well, or better than what his perceived strength is.



....and you base this on what?



Merriman went from 249 pounds after the season ended to around 272 pounds right before the combine. There were serious concerns about Merriman and steroids before the draft, and you know the rest of the story.





Backtrack much? What would make him a "good/great" 4-3? Answer: His overall athleticism for his size. Hmm, that sounds an awful lot like Merriman.



He spent the majority of his collegiate career as a 3-4 DE, expecting anything more would've been a huge stretch.



I want the BPA, and I feel Chris Long is the BPA. So to answer your question, yes, I would be thrilled if we picked Chris Long with the 1st overall pick.

An OLB with the athleticism of the average 1st round pick (LB), despite being 24-27 pounds heavier than the average 1st round LB, that has the ability to play the run, and get after the QB.

I'm talking about OLB only,,, there are a few ILB in your list.

If you want 5 to 6 sacks a year Long is your guy.they could always draft him and move him around, that wouldn't be so bad, but Bill knows manys others in the draft could do the same thing and be much better at it.