For comparison purposes, I only used their combine numbers. Chris Long did not run or jump at his pro day so I have no idea of how much better or worse his numbers would be.
Longs 40 time
- Thread starter funkDat
- Start date
fishypete
FinHeaven Elite
He also hasn't lifted...which I find very strange.
playeragent26
Scout Team
Yeah, no doubt Vernon is a beast and a workout warrior. Thats what looking like Hulk does. But, can he pass rush, then all of a sudden stop and run the other way and run down a running back out of the backfield- smoothly and not being tight hipped and shed blockers in his way and make that tackle. I see C.Long doing this because hes smooth and love how he stays low in his stance and uses leverage and athletisim to turn around shed a 300lb blocker and move down field to make a tackle. You only have to look up a youtube video of this to witness it.
Yeah Long is a sheep. Black sheep that is. Ok, that might of been stupid. But, so was the above comment. (Im not being personal though) Its said in good humor.
O , but it is personal................ Long is the black sheep of the draft that hasn't lifted., lol
Yeah Long is a sheep. Black sheep that is. Ok, that might of been stupid. But, so was the above comment. (Im not being personal though) Its said in good humor.
Your 28 years old ,did you even see L.T. play,? cuzz your not talking like you did.
fishypete
FinHeaven Elite
Of course he can...if thats what he's suppose to do...if you look at his video's...he doesn't have to run around anyone...he runs threw them. J. Taylor is a great pass rusher...and can run almost anyone down from behind...but if you run at him...he's too light...and is easily taken out of the play...but still I wouldn't want him to play any differently.
playeragent26
Scout Team
Stop it. Your trying me now. Like im half retarded. Man, I used to hang out at the clubs with LT and did some serious lines. Yeah, Ive seen LT play.
playeragent26
Scout Team
Well, Long is the better run stopper and pursuer than Vernon. Running through someone is not always the best route to the runner. I saw too many times in the BCS game, where LSU ran purposely at Vernon's side and just pushed him to the side and out of the play- because he was trying to get to the QB. And leave a nice hole for the RB to run through. That would not have happened to long.
Ok well please tell me how L.T. and Long play alike,,,,,,,,,,,other then saying ""They both try hard""
Do tell.
playeragent26
Scout Team
I never did. If you look at one of my above quotes. I said there is nobody like Merriman in this draft. And I definetely dont think there is a LT in it either. So, look we agree on something
fishypete
FinHeaven Elite
Yes it would...C. Long is no different than any other player...playing in college is one thing...but the NFL is a new ball game for all of the players....the one issue I have with C. long is his strength...he hasn't shown that he can handle top flight players...and still hasn't lifted to even show he can do 25 reps...which should be the min...for a DE/OLB...in the NFL....Alot of his plays came from running around...not threw O-line players.
playeragent26
Scout Team
My last quote.
Im not even worried how many reps Long does, because I believe he will do 25 reps at least. And actually I have seen Long rip through a 300lb. LT and get to the QB. Strenght is not everything, i like Longs technique and leverage ability to create more pop at POI.
Dont worry about a little benching. I saw a draft vid. from the DE from KC (forgot his name), but hes there best pass rusher, and he said he only put up like 13-15 reps at the combine. HE turned out ok. Hes there pro bowler. Dang, I cant think of his name.
Im going to bed. NIght
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2008
- Messages
- 11,484
- Reaction score
- 14,704
You're saying the 40 yard dash is the most important thing? Well then why stop at 40 yards? Let's time these guys at 100 yards ... or even better 1,000 yards ... or how about 10,000 yards, that'd be even better right?
To me, there are 4 aspects that are very important measurements of 'speed' that really matter for an OLB/DE: first step quickness, acceleration around the edge, ability to maintain speed while being blocked, and lateral agility.
The first step quickness is usually shown in what is sometimes called the "10 yard split" of the 40 yard dash. After all, most OLB's run anywhere from 7 to 15 yards to reach the QB, rarely more than that. So, top speed isn't usually the determiner of whether they can beat their blocker with speed. Long doesn't have a great 40 time, but his 10 yard split is pretty good, because he actually has a good first step. No, he's no Groves or even Gholston, but his first step is good.
Acceleration around the edge is something at which Jason Taylor is absolutely astounding. JT has a quick first step, but it's his acceleration that allows him to blow by his blockers. Coupled with his long arms many LT's think they have good position and he blows by them effortlessly because of his superior acceleration. Long's acceleration is good but not great, Gholston definitely has the advantage there.
The ability to maintain speed while being blocked, which I'll call blocked speed for short, is a combo of what we consider 'speed' and 'strength.' Many very fast pass rushers fail because they're sprinters more than football players, so when the LT gets his hands on them they simply lose speed, leverage, angle, and are completely taken out of the play. While Gholston is clearly the stronger player and the faster player, Long has significantly better blocked speed as he can maintain his rush very well while being pushed behind the QB. Both are good bull rushers, but that's not what I'm talking about, I'm talking about using their speed to get around the outside of the LT without being slowed down to innefectiveness, or being pushed past the play as the QB steps up.
Lateral agility is the ability to change directions. This is crucial for spin moves and double-moves, and often is dependant upon having good blocked speed as well to pull these moves off. Long and Gholston both accel at this, but Long is better.
The stages of a pass rush are more than straight speed and almost never cover 40 yards of field. Safety blitzes or corner blitzes sometimes do, but not OLB/DE pass rushing. Those types are generallly unblocked sprint races timed against the QB's ability to get rid of the ball. Usually, OLB's and DE's are accounted for in the pass coverage with an LT, sometimes a LG or RB will help, but it's neither a sprint to the QB nor is it going to cover 40 yards. So, when you're looking at an edge rusher, you need to veer away from the generic 40 yard times and concentrate on the metrics that really matter. If you're interested in pure speed, then perhaps the 10 yard dash (called the "10 yard split" when they list the 40 times at the combine) is probably your closest metric. Unfortunately, it's done in tights from a sprinter's stance, instead of wearing pads and a helmet from a typical OLB 2 point stance. Still, the faster players at the combine tend to be the faster players in pads as well, although everyone is slower on the field than they test on the track, and not everyone slows down exactly the same amount.
I love the combine, and I really like the computerized times because good, bad, right, wrong, it's even for everyone, so while you can't always compare this year's time to last year's time, you can compare all the players at this year's combine against one another.
To the OP, I'm curious where Long's 10 yard split appears compared to other top 6 LB picks of the past. I realize he's 272 pounds, so he's not going to be competitive with the 220 pound LB's of the past, but I think his time might be a bit better. I'm interested in your results.
To me, there are 4 aspects that are very important measurements of 'speed' that really matter for an OLB/DE: first step quickness, acceleration around the edge, ability to maintain speed while being blocked, and lateral agility.
The first step quickness is usually shown in what is sometimes called the "10 yard split" of the 40 yard dash. After all, most OLB's run anywhere from 7 to 15 yards to reach the QB, rarely more than that. So, top speed isn't usually the determiner of whether they can beat their blocker with speed. Long doesn't have a great 40 time, but his 10 yard split is pretty good, because he actually has a good first step. No, he's no Groves or even Gholston, but his first step is good.
Acceleration around the edge is something at which Jason Taylor is absolutely astounding. JT has a quick first step, but it's his acceleration that allows him to blow by his blockers. Coupled with his long arms many LT's think they have good position and he blows by them effortlessly because of his superior acceleration. Long's acceleration is good but not great, Gholston definitely has the advantage there.
The ability to maintain speed while being blocked, which I'll call blocked speed for short, is a combo of what we consider 'speed' and 'strength.' Many very fast pass rushers fail because they're sprinters more than football players, so when the LT gets his hands on them they simply lose speed, leverage, angle, and are completely taken out of the play. While Gholston is clearly the stronger player and the faster player, Long has significantly better blocked speed as he can maintain his rush very well while being pushed behind the QB. Both are good bull rushers, but that's not what I'm talking about, I'm talking about using their speed to get around the outside of the LT without being slowed down to innefectiveness, or being pushed past the play as the QB steps up.
Lateral agility is the ability to change directions. This is crucial for spin moves and double-moves, and often is dependant upon having good blocked speed as well to pull these moves off. Long and Gholston both accel at this, but Long is better.
The stages of a pass rush are more than straight speed and almost never cover 40 yards of field. Safety blitzes or corner blitzes sometimes do, but not OLB/DE pass rushing. Those types are generallly unblocked sprint races timed against the QB's ability to get rid of the ball. Usually, OLB's and DE's are accounted for in the pass coverage with an LT, sometimes a LG or RB will help, but it's neither a sprint to the QB nor is it going to cover 40 yards. So, when you're looking at an edge rusher, you need to veer away from the generic 40 yard times and concentrate on the metrics that really matter. If you're interested in pure speed, then perhaps the 10 yard dash (called the "10 yard split" when they list the 40 times at the combine) is probably your closest metric. Unfortunately, it's done in tights from a sprinter's stance, instead of wearing pads and a helmet from a typical OLB 2 point stance. Still, the faster players at the combine tend to be the faster players in pads as well, although everyone is slower on the field than they test on the track, and not everyone slows down exactly the same amount.
I love the combine, and I really like the computerized times because good, bad, right, wrong, it's even for everyone, so while you can't always compare this year's time to last year's time, you can compare all the players at this year's combine against one another.
To the OP, I'm curious where Long's 10 yard split appears compared to other top 6 LB picks of the past. I realize he's 272 pounds, so he's not going to be competitive with the 220 pound LB's of the past, but I think his time might be a bit better. I'm interested in your results.
No i'm not saying the 40 yard dash is the most important thing.
In short what i'm saying is, Long would make a good/great DE in the 4-3.
His lack of speed/Acceleration around the edge/and overall lack of speed for a 3-4 OLB would be a waste our #1 overall pick and a waste of his talents.
I even went back and looked at the past drafts, from the past 5 years of the top 6 OLB's in the drafts, from 2002 to 2007, and only one guy ran right about what Long did in the 40 yard dash, out of 30 guys.
Again,,, only one out of all them top 30 guys was as slow as Long in the 40, and he has yet to get a sack in the NFL.
So odd's are he's not going to be good rushing the passer in the NFL.One GM/VP , has even said the same, and that info is in this Thread.
Why is it that dolfans want to take a OLB that is better stopping the run then the pass when we all ready have JT/JP who are good to great at both.
Even if we get rid of JT they would still put JP at ROLB so Long would still spend 1/2 the game running with the other teams TE.
So please tell me how this long guy who only got a sack every other game in college as a DE is going to pan out in the NFL when he going to spend 1/2 is day running with TE's as a LOLB.
In other words he would not be our speed rusher he'd be our cover OLB.Is that what you want from your # 1 overall pick?
In short what i'm saying is, Long would make a good/great DE in the 4-3.
His lack of speed/Acceleration around the edge/and overall lack of speed for a 3-4 OLB would be a waste our #1 overall pick and a waste of his talents.
I even went back and looked at the past drafts, from the past 5 years of the top 6 OLB's in the drafts, from 2002 to 2007, and only one guy ran right about what Long did in the 40 yard dash, out of 30 guys.
Again,,, only one out of all them top 30 guys was as slow as Long in the 40, and he has yet to get a sack in the NFL.
So odd's are he's not going to be good rushing the passer in the NFL.One GM/VP , has even said the same, and that info is in this Thread.
Why is it that dolfans want to take a OLB that is better stopping the run then the pass when we all ready have JT/JP who are good to great at both.
Even if we get rid of JT they would still put JP at ROLB so Long would still spend 1/2 the game running with the other teams TE.
So please tell me how this long guy who only got a sack every other game in college as a DE is going to pan out in the NFL when he going to spend 1/2 is day running with TE's as a LOLB.
In other words he would not be our speed rusher he'd be our cover OLB.Is that what you want from your # 1 overall pick?