MERGED: Its Over, Rams resign Atogwe | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

MERGED: Its Over, Rams resign Atogwe

I think he's still available!


Jarrad Page | #44 | FS Kansas City

Height: 6-0 Weight: 225 Age: 25
Born: 10/19/1984 Oakland , CA
College: UCLA
Experience: 5th season
 
Whether it was the additional injury or just that they made it clear he was interested in signing with the Rams first, interesting that nobody made a play for him at all. Not an invite to come down for a physical, talks or even a tour. So whether the injury, price or hometown preference, he likely wasn't going anywhere other than St. Louis the whole time. Hopefully our FO knows what they are doing here and their confidence in the current FS options is going to be good enough.
 
What? no Atgowe?????

ohnowesuckagain-1.jpg

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haha just kidding ... Let's go Clemons / Culver / Jones!​
 
I bet FinAtic8480 has kld-naped him and is making him play out his make believe contract he has with the Miami Dolphins in his Basement on Madden.

Has anyone even heard from Atgowe in the pass 24 hours.............................? I haven't, nuff said.
 
LOL. We all have our binkies I guess. ;)

Incidentally this Clemons/Culver stuff is starting to remind me of the Merling/Starks situation a year ago.

Back then even though it was clear (to me) that Randy Starks was the best Defensive End on the roster in 2008, it seemed like eeeeeeeeeeveryone was talking about Phil Merling. I remember a position breakdown article I think written by the Miami Herald that basically talked about Langford and Merling and didn't mention Randy Starks even once. I said back then, that's just plain stupid. You can't talk about the DE position and not talk about Randy Starks. Of course that looks silly now but back then it was common. I remember one poster argued with me to the bone that based on Randy Starks' stat sheet, it was impossible for him to continue to get better and have a breakout year. Impossible. Otherwise he'd have already done it. I don't even remember who that was but whoever he is that looks pretty stupid now I'm sure.

Anyway, seems like the same thing is going on here. Everything is about Chris Clemons. But a year ago, the best safety not named Yeremiah Bell, was Tyrone Culver...not Chris Clemons. I realize that Clemons took all the starting reps at Mini Camp and OTAs but that's not unlike Merling taking the reps with the 1's at the same time a year ago. Clemons is obviously the guy that this coaching staff would LIKE to see step up and take over the job. Why? Obvious, he's like 205 lbs, built solid, and somehow he has 4.35 speed. If you can rep up his mental game you have one heck of a safety. Unfortunately in the NFL, that's a monumental "IF". The guy whose mental game is already repped up and who might continue to get even better in that regard, is Tyrone Culver. I realize he's not that fast. But how fast is Jairus Byrd? He's slow enough to make Tyrone Culver look fast.

I did a speed study on a few secondaries and I found some interesting results. Look at the Jets. Is Jim Leonhard fast? No, he's a 4.60 guy. Is Donovan Warren? No way. What about Eric Smith? Not unless you call a Combine 4.63 fast. Kerry Rhodes was no better than a 4.56 at the Combine back in 2005. And James Ihedigbo...don't even get me started. He ran a 4.77 at his Pro Day. He took over 100 snaps with the Jets last year. This was the #1 defense in football, and they didn't have any speed in their safeties. They didn't need it. Sure, they had Darrelle Revis, but their other corners were the torchable Lito Sheppard and the slow Dwight Lowery.

What matters is the anticipation and getting everyone lined up, being in the right spot and then responding when you have your feet put to the fire. I don't trust Chris Clemons to do any of that yet, not until I see it. But I think I could trust Tyrone Culver to do it. Even if he did run a 4.62 in the 40 yard dash.
 
ckparrothead said:
LOL. We all have our binkies I guess. ;)

Incidentally this Clemons/Culver stuff is starting to remind me of the Merling/Starks situation a year ago.

Back then even though it was clear (to me) that Randy Starks was the best Defensive End on the roster in 2008, it seemed like eeeeeeeeeeveryone was talking about Phil Merling. I remember a position breakdown article I think written by the Miami Herald that basically talked about Langford and Merling and didn't mention Randy Starks even once. I said back then, that's just plain stupid. You can't talk about the DE position and not talk about Randy Starks. Of course that looks silly now but back then it was common. I remember one poster argued with me to the bone that based on Randy Starks' stat sheet, it was impossible for him to continue to get better and have a breakout year. Impossible. Otherwise he'd have already done it. I don't even remember who that was but whoever he is that looks pretty stupid now I'm sure.

Anyway, seems like the same thing is going on here. Everything is about Chris Clemons. But a year ago, the best safety not named Yeremiah Bell, was Tyrone Culver...not Chris Clemons. I realize that Clemons took all the starting reps at Mini Camp and OTAs but that's not unlike Merling taking the reps with the 1's at the same time a year ago. Clemons is obviously the guy that this coaching staff would LIKE to see step up and take over the job. Why? Obvious, he's like 205 lbs, built solid, and somehow he has 4.35 speed. If you can rep up his mental game you have one heck of a safety. Unfortunately in the NFL, that's a monumental "IF". The guy whose mental game is already repped up and who might continue to get even better in that regard, is Tyrone Culver. I realize he's not that fast. But how fast is Jairus Byrd? He's slow enough to make Tyrone Culver look fast.

I did a speed study on a few secondaries and I found some interesting results. Look at the Jets. Is Jim Leonhard fast? No, he's a 4.60 guy. Is Donovan Warren? No way. What about Eric Smith? Not unless you call a Combine 4.63 fast. Kerry Rhodes was no better than a 4.56 at the Combine back in 2005. And James Ihedigbo...don't even get me started. He ran a 4.77 at his Pro Day. He took over 100 snaps with the Jets last year. This was the #1 defense in football, and they didn't have any speed in their safeties. They didn't need it. Sure, they had Darrelle Revis, but their other corners were the torchable Lito Sheppard and the slow Dwight Lowery.

What matters is the anticipation and getting everyone lined up, being in the right spot and then responding when you have your feet put to the fire. I don't trust Chris Clemons to do any of that yet, not until I see it. But I think I could trust Tyrone Culver to do it. Even if he did run a 4.62 in the 40 yard dash.
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There is only one thing I am worried about with Culver, and that is his range. His range when he plays centerfielder is not the best, but not bad by any means. Can he float middle and get to the sidelines in time?
 
Ty Culver is 6'1" and he had almost a 40 inch vertical, almost an 11 foot broad jump. The guy is explosive. Running a 4.62 is not really all that uncommon for safeties in the NFL.

I just don't see why this has to be about Clemons.

The only reason Culver's not taking reps with the 1's right now is because they're still using nickel packages with Yeremiah Bell coming up and Culver coming onto the field. If Tyrone were to take reps with the 1's in addition to that, there would be an imbalance in the reps. Though, in camp, I do expect at some point they'll try Clemons in Culver's nickel position and Culver in Clemons' starting position.
 
ckparrothead said:
Ty Culver is 6'1" and he had almost a 40 inch vertical, almost an 11 foot broad jump. The guy is explosive. Running a 4.62 is not really all that uncommon for safeties in the NFL.

I just don't see why this has to be about Clemons.

The only reason Culver's not taking reps with the 1's right now is because they're still using nickel packages with Yeremiah Bell coming up and Culver coming onto the field. If Tyrone were to take reps with the 1's in addition to that, there would be an imbalance in the reps. Though, in camp, I do expect at some point they'll try Clemons in Culver's nickel position and Culver in Clemons' starting position.
Click to expand...

Great stuff as always you are the best at what you do.
 
RobertHorry said:
There is only one thing I am worried about with Culver, and that is his range. His range when he plays centerfielder is not the best, but not bad by any means. Can he float middle and get to the sidelines in time?
Click to expand...

The fast guys can't do that either unless they anticipate the pass first

Let's take a look at some free safeties.

Jets: Kerry Rhodes - 4.56
Bills: Jairus Byrd - 4.68
Patriots: Brandon Meriweather - 4.47
Dolphins: Gibril Wilson - 4.47
Ravens: Ed Reed - 4.57
Bengals: Chris Crocker - 4.55
Browns: Brodney Pool - 4.52
Steelers: Ryan Clark - 4.48
Texans: Eugene Wilson / Dominique Barber - 4.48 / 4.68
Colts: Antoine Bethea - 4.39
Jaguars: Reggie Nelson - 4.48
Titans: Michael Griffen - 4.45
Broncos: Renaldo Hill - 4.68
Chiefs: Jarrad Page - 4.63
Raiders: Michael Huff - 4.34
Chargers: Eric Weddle - 4.48
Cowboys: Ken Hamlin - 4.61
Giants: Aaron Rouse / CC Brown - 4.58 / 4.52
Eagles: Sean Jones / Macho Harris - 4.63 / 4.68
Redskins: LaRon Landry - 4.35
Bears: Danieal Manning / Kevin Payne - 4.48 / 4.60
Lions: Louis Delmas - 4.52
Packers: Nick Collins - 4.36
Vikings: Madieu Williams - 4.48
Falcons: Thomas DeCoud - 4.50
Panthers: Charles Godfrey - 4.43
Saints: Darren Sharper - Unknown but certainly in the 4.6 range at this age
Buccaneers: Tanard Jackson - 4.52
Cardinals: Antrel Rolle - 4.48
49ers: Dashon Goldson - 4.60
Seahawks: Jordan Babineaux - Unknown
Rams: O.J. Atogwe - 4.52

The average there is 4.52, and Tyrone Culver is a 4.62. His presence would have given the Dolphins the 5th slowest Free Safety position in the league last year. But, how much does that matter? The defenses with equivalent speed free safeties (guys that ran worse than 4.58 in the 40 yard dash) include the Saints, 49ers, Cowboys, Bills, Eagles and Broncos. The only defense that was really bad and also had a slow free safety was the Chiefs.

What it suggests to me is that it wouldn't be a huge problem. Plenty of those names at free safety have great speed but are bigger liabilities overall.
 
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yeah ck but with culvers speed he's gonna have to show some pretty good instincts and the ability to read the play in front of him...i'd be more keen on culver at free safety (not that i'm not ok with the idea anyways) if culver on all those passing downs he played last year made more plays on the ball...

but i think he's a solid open field tackler and will be in the right position especially against the run when called to give run support...it's the plays on the ball in the air that i would like to see more of...
 
Thank god its over... end all the pointless speculation on a player we wouldnt have picked up
 
you can add malcolm jenkins to that list...he's slow as heck and the saints have moved him to fs...i figured that would happen in not too long

i thought louis delmas played ss in detroit....huh

edit: i think malcolm was being moved to fs if sharper left in free agency so maybe they're waiting on the free safety move with jenkins now...
 
hooshoops said:
yeah ck but with culvers speed he's gonna have to show some pretty good instincts and the ability to read the play in front of him...i'd be more keen on culver at free safety (not that i'm not ok with the idea anyways) if culver on all those passing downs he played last year made more plays on the ball...

but i think he's a solid open field tackler and will be in the right position especially against the run when called to give run support...it's the plays on the ball in the air that i would like to see more of...
Click to expand...

Culver shows good instincts. Thats not his problem at all. He was a zone free safety in college and has above average feet, but his hip flexibility seems to cause him to be a tad slow in transition time and coming out of his breaks with a burst. Not that he has bad hips, but they are around the below average area. He also seems to get flushed out by blockers a bit too easily when coming up for run support or shadowing the screen.

Culver seemed to read the plays pretty well last year. He didn't allow that many players to get behind him or disrupt him in his zone/coverage. He can hit with some authority too. On top of that he seems to know where the ball is when the opposing player catches it. He has a knack for breaking up the pass even if the player has the ball in his hands.
 
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