My Opinion:Tony Sparano gave a clue to who is a top of MIA's draft board!!!

[dlockz]

How many assistants aren't hired when they have worked with a coach before? I bet more then are. Bad question

I never said they didn't hire people they worked with in fact I said a combination of the reason Boomer mentioned and the reason you mentioned is not that far from possible and would be the ultimate coach so to speak.

Read above.

Other factors came into play like not getting the coach/ coaches we wanted. I don't see your point.

Again never said that. I said it was not outside the realm of reason. And then I condemned your logic as working effectively against your own argument. Which it does. You saying we could not hire someone because of their connection to beck or it not being a factor, effectively works against your own logic that other coaches were hired because of their connection to parcells. Now if you argued strength of connection then that would make sense. I never said you were wrong I said it could be a combination of both which makes the most sense, more bang for your buck so to speak. And now you are trying to completely dismiss the notion that Beck played any part into the reasoning.

I agree its not ouside the realm of reason but can you name one time an offensive coordinator has been hired for that reason. Hell people speculated we hired Terry Shea because of his working with Brady Quinn last year and we know how that all turned out. It just seems like when something suits your arguement you seem to go out of your way to believe the possibility of such even when there is little evidence to support it.

Pleas answer these questions without sounding like you are running for office.

1.Which is more likely reason we were looking at Carmichael.
Previously coached with Sparano or was a coach with former coach of John Beck but never coached John Beck

2.If answer is its the same likihood please cite one or more example of this in the NFL at anytime.

3.Wouldn't it make more sense to Hire Crowton if your main reason is Beck.
I mean why hire a less experience coordinator when you can get the real deal, the man that actually coached Beck and he has NFL experience.
Why not hire Robert Anae who also actually coached Beck.

4.If Beck was that big of a consideration, why not hire a smililar offensive coordinator to Crowton istead of the war horse Henning.


80 percent of our coaches have worked with either Parcells or Sparano
at some point. If you were to go throughout the league the number would be fairly close to 50 percent when a new coach or GM are able to hire thier own staff.

This line of reasoning is almost as bad as saying we are taking Matt Ryan because Dan Henning once was head coach at Boston College

 

[unluckyluciano]

I agree its not ouside the realm of reason but can you name one time an offensive coordinator has been hired for that reason. Hell people speculated we hired Terry Shea because of his working with Brady Quinn last year and we know how that all turned out. It just seems like when something suits your arguement you seem to go out of your way to believe the possibility of such even when there is little evidence to support it.

Really you drew that conclusion about me from a couple of posts? I would hope not seeing as how you are trying to be so damn logical and all.

Pleas answer these questions without sounding like you are running for office.

Please read my posts a couple of times till you understand my position.
Thanks.

1.Which is more likely reason we were looking at Carmichael.
Previously coached with Sparano or was a coach with former coach of John Beck but never coached John Beck

2.If answer is its the same likihood please cite one or more example of this in the NFL at anytime.

3.Wouldn't it make more sense to Hire Crowton if your main reason is Beck.
I mean why hire a less experience coordinator when you can get the real deal, the man that actually coached Beck and he has NFL experience.
Why not hire Robert Anae who also actually coached Beck.

4.If Beck was that big of a consideration, why not hire a smililar offensive coordinator to Crowton istead of the war horse Henning.


80 percent of our coaches have worked with either Parcells or Sparano
at some point. If you were to go throughout the league the number would be fairly close to 50 percent when a new coach or GM are able to hire thier own staff.

This line of reasoning is almost as bad as saying we are taking Matt Ryan because Dan Henning once was head coach at Boston College

Again you are arguing against something I never said. I said the following:

1) It's not outside of the realm of reason to believe it was a combination of both, that is carmichael worked with sparano before and because carmichael worked with someone who worked with beck. Makes him the perfect pick IMO.

Where in there did I imply you were wrong or that a coach was hired only because of his history with beck. I said it would not be unlikely or outside the realm of reason which would mean, since you can't seem to grasp the concept, that its is not reaching and not outside reality. I also said a reason with the two as a combination, not just one, not three, but the two reasons, the one you and boomer stated, would not be beyond the realm of reason. Which means its possible.
Oh and I am not going to answer your question since I never stated the opposite. Feel free to ask it again though if it makes you happy.

 

[dlockz]

Really you drew that conclusion about me from a couple of posts? I would hope not seeing as how you are trying to be so damn logical and all.


Please read my posts a couple of times till you understand my position.
Thanks.


Again you are arguing against something I never said. I said the following:



Where in there did I imply you were wrong or that a coach was hired only because of his history with beck. I said it would not be unlikely or outside the realm of reason which would mean, since you can't seem to grasp the concept, that its is not reaching and not outside reality. I also said a reason with the two as a combination, not just one, not three, but the two reasons, the one you and boomer stated, would not be beyond the realm of reason. Which means its possible.
Oh and I am not going to answer your question since I never stated the opposite. Feel free to ask it again though if it makes you happy.

Its not outside the realm of reason that an undrafted free agent would make the pro bowl as a Qb but there are degrees of liklihood. I do think you dealt with my questions much like a politician. Its also entirely possible that Jerry Jones may think somewhat like Parcells and know his mindset but is it that probable.

Ill take your implication for the reason for not answering the questions as that you agree with those assessments as the most likely scenarios.

 

[Vaark]

If by the remote chance we draft Ryan #1... and if, with what's bound to be a better supporting cast, his performance over the 1st 4 games is as lacklustre as Beck's, (and no, his supporters are NOT allowed to point to a few isolated examples of encouragement, like Beck's Cinci game), can we all immediately jump on the bandwagon for whoever is next year's college QB lollipop of the month??? Or will the Ryan Myopics be calling us "shortsighted," "impatient," and uninformed??? Personally, if we get Ryan and he turns in a Russell-like 1st year performance, I'll see my opinion as vindicated and start lobbying like crazy to sit that "bum" in favor of McCown or Beck after 5 games. Wouldn't it be the height of hypocrisy for any of the Beck critics to argue against me???

 

[adamprez2003]

If by the remote chance we draft Ryan #1... and if, with what's bound to be a better supporting cast, his performance over the 1st 4 games is as lacklustre as Beck's, (and no, his supporters are NOT allowed to point to a few isolated examples of encouragement, like Beck's Cinci game, can we all immediately jump on the bandwagon for whoever is next year's college QB lollipop of the month??? Or will the Ryan Myopics be calling us "shortsighted," "impatient," and uninformed??? Personally, if we get Ryan and he turns in a Russell-like 1st year performance, I'll see my opinion as vindicated and start lobbying like crazy to sit that "bum" in favor of McCown or Beck after 5 games. Wouldn't it be the height of hypocrisy for any of the Beck critics to argue against me???

Not at all because you'll be shortsighted, impatient and uninformed

 

[unluckyluciano]

Its not outside the realm of reason that an undrafted free agent would make the pro bowl as a Qb but there are degrees of liklihood.

Which I stated in the second post I made and said you should argue. Feel free to re read that as well.

I do think you dealt with my questions much like a politician.

You are implying I sidestepped the issue which I didn't. I simply pointed out that you were arguing the wrong issue with me. Feel free to look up what is meant by answering a question like a politician as well.

Its also entirely possible that Jerry Jones may think somewhat like Parcells and know his mindset but is it that probable.

Again never said it wasn't, and I just said it was probable that Carmicheal was looked at as the combination of the two. All you have stated thus far is that beck's working with a mentor of carmicheal was non issue what so ever with the hiring. See I read your posts maybe you should try the same.

 

[Vaark]

Not at all because you'll be shortsighted, impatient and uninformed

:up:

Adam, I finally figured out why I like your Ryan animation - he really is going up in smoke!:sidelol:

 

[dlockz]

Which I stated in the second post I made and said you should argue. Feel free to re read that as well.

You are implying I sidestepped the issue which I didn't. I simply pointed out that you were arguing the wrong issue with me. Feel free to look up what is meant by answering a question like a politician as well.


Again never said it wasn't, and I just said it was probable that Carmicheal was looked at as the combination of the two. All you have stated thus far is that beck's working with a mentor of carmicheal was non issue what so ever with the hiring. See I read your posts maybe you should try the same.

You said you read my post but my exact words


I agree its not ouside the realm of reason but

 

[3rdandinches]

But these arent facts just your perception which is fine but its not fact. Many professionals have gone on record (Heckert, Casserly, etc) who have said Ryan is worthy of being number 1. Spin it anyway you want but there are more than enough pros that disgaree with you that that statement cant be considered fact.

So what did Ryan do to prove his #1 status? Show me the facts, the some things can't be measured is a cop out.

Chris Long isnt the physical specimen that Gholston is. The reason people are "wowed" by Chris Long as you put it is because they had lower expectations. Same with Ryan and his mobility at his proday. Was it hustle or did he have athletic ability?

The fact that he has the fastest hands to get lineman off him got a lot of people excited, his strength, his ability to get to the QB, making tackles on the other side of the field etc.....

Long proved he has athletic ability and Ryan proved he can move. Neither is in the top of their respective positions. Noone can say Long has better athletic ability than Gholston just like noone is going to say that Ryan is Josh Johnson running or Flacco throwing. As for Jake Long what was the wow factor with him? I missed it. People still arent sure if he can transition to left tackle. How much wow can a right tackle have?

I never once said you have to be #1 on all the measureables but together they need to be impressive not above average to be worth the 1st overall selection. J.Long is fast, huge, strong as an Ox, allowed 2 sacks in 4 years, had two penalties in 4years, has an attitude to kill his opponents not just block them.

So if Bill Parcells and Ireland actually do choose Ryan its because they have been "blinded" as you so well put it?

As for tools to succeed, noone doubts that Ryan has the enough tools to succeed. Does he have a Russell gun, no but any knowledgeable football fan knows by now you dont need that to succeed. The one quality he seems to possess that is absolutely integral to success is what's behind his ears.

Sounds like he'd be a good coach, Manning has all of that plus a gun for an arm, an impressive college resume, and most important came out of college clearly a franchise QB.
That, there seems to be common agreement about. The dreaded word intangibles. Cant measure it you just know it when you see it. Will it be enough? Noone ever knows for sure but this guy is in play and if our FO feels comfortable with the guy he'll be our choice. There is nothing to indicate that he's not in consideration. And if he's being considered then the ball is in his court because all things being equal we'll go QB. Its only if we feel that Chris or Jake or vernon are heads and shoulders above him that we'll take someone else

If BP believes in Ryan than so be it, it doesn't change how I feel about this great organization. I truely believe BP is one of the best in the Biz so it would be the last arguement out of me. I just don't see it, yes that's my opinion, but majority of the great ones were great in college. The others flew under the radar because of the intangibles and circumstances with the program they played in. That could be Ryan but his college career was nothing to flip over. Nobody is saying he'll fly under the radar obviousily so I think his chances are alot slimmer being a top pick.
Remember to be first overall I believe being good or above average is the same as being a bust, he needs to be great or close to it to be worth the selection. I believe J.Long and C.Long will fulfill that for someone, hopefully us!!!!

 

[perfect1]

[mod]Draft related threads belong in the DRAFT forum[/mod]

Ok. I'm tired of all the hate madness going on back and forth regarding who MIA should pick #1 come draft day. It has gotten quite childish. People are outright saying anything that comes out of their arse, just to be for beck and/or against matt ryan.

Look. I'm taking it back all the way from the start to why I see Matt Ryan as the pick for MIA at #1. I didn't just fall in love with Matt Ryan and just want him to be our pick, just because I like him. No. There are reasons and signs that have led me to believe that he "should" be our pick...or that MIA is indeed considering it.

Let's start from the beginning...

MIA sucks arse in 2007. QB play was horrendous. John Beck fumbles 7 times, scores "zero" TDs in 4 starts and tops it off with a loss 0-3 where our defense played great.

Enter Bill Parcells. BP gives this disgusting look at Ron Wolf when john beck fumbles another snap due to his small hands. I just about threw up. john beck follows that fumble with several 3 and outs of which i have the game recorded commentators stating, "wow, that was a really bad pass...yeah, that was..."

finally, after the game is over and out of reach...lorenzo booker begins to take over and john beck runs it in for a TD. then, with less than a minute left of a blowout loss, john beck finally throws his "only" TD of the year. finally, its over with.

Enter Jeff Ireland. In his opening PC, JI makes the following statements: "There is a lot of work to be done between now and April's draft, and Parcells and I are continuing to evaluate the team's needs, with the quarterback position being one of the 'HIGHER' priorities".

He adds: "the quarterbacks getting ready to play in the playoffs and their importance to their respective teams is a prime example of how significant that position is. those teams that are playing right now have quarterbacks that play at a "HIGH" level".

when asked if he had a high opinion of beck? JI says, "sure, we 'HAD' a high opinion of him coming out of college, sure."

Enter Tony Sparano. (an OL coach by trade). In his initial PC he makes another telling statement when asked if because he was an OL coach, he thought that that was the main position to build your team around?

Sparano's answer was stunning: "“Make no bones about it, I feel like that is an important position, 'BUT' I look at the eight teams that just played this past weekend – and we were one of them – and they all had "QUARTERBACKS" that were OUTSTANDING. I’m "SURE" that the "QUARTERBACK" position is "THE" POSITION TO BUILD YOUR TEAM AROUND...
With that being said, when we arrived in Dallas with Coach (Bill) Parcells, one of the commitments there was, slowly but surely, to try to get the line to play the way it did this past season. That was a work in progress, but when you see the end result and what happened, you know how important the interiors are on both sides of the ball.â€

He said it, not me.

The Sparano makes these remarks on his impressions of john beck: “None right now. I have not 'WATCHED FILM'. I’ll reserve comment that way. At the end of the day, I need to sit down and 'WATCH TAPE'. For me, it’s 0-0. I need to see what’s happening on the film and watch it.

(then this part): "I’m not interested in watching all the 'GOOD' plays. I need to see what’s happening with the quarterback when he’s not winning, when he’s behind and when he’s doing all of those things.â€

So Sparano's opinion of Beck is based on what he saw on tape last season. he wasn't going to judge john beck based on his "college career" or his "hype coming out of college"....he said that he would judge it based on the "tape he would watch of this past season". is it being biased to say that beck was "AWFUL" last season? i think not.

Come Jeff Ireland at the Senior Bowl. He mentions that "DT" and "QB" are his main areas to focus on "this" offseason. They traded for J Ferguson and signed R Starks via FA to show he meant what he said of focusing on "DT". Now he signed J McCown and is waiting the draft to show he means what he said about fixing the "QB" position. His own words.

BP said earlier that MIA will have a "short" list of players on their draft board. So far they have scheduled private workout/interviews with QB Matt Ryan(one of the two positions that JI said was their two highest priorities), OT Jake Long, and DE/OLB? Chris Long.

Well, MIA pushes hard to sign calvin pace during FA. Meaning that of those "3" players, they intended on signing calvin pace which happens to play the same position that jason taylor plays and that chris long plays.
MIA showed its card. They "want" to draft a player "other" than chris long because they attempted to find a replacement for jason taylor by signing calvin pace.

they failed to do so. thus, BP has emphatically denied any JT trade rumors...and is quoted as saying: "only way JT doesn't play for MIA in 2008, is if he retires."

Chris Long was "not" on top of MIA's wishlist. His attempt at signing pace showed that they tried to "avoid" drafting chris long.
So they have shown that OT Jake Long and QB Matt Ryan are higher on their draft board than chris long.

Well, so who is it? Who is on "top" of MIA's draft board? Well, the answer is obvious.

Sparano mentioned that QB was "higher" than OL in position you build your team around in his opening PC.

Jeff Ireland mentioned at the senior bowl, that "DT" and "QB" are his highest priorities to be addressed this offseason.

Jeff Ireland mentioned being intrigued with Matt Ryan and that, and I will quote: "one of those players that we are interested in is not here at the senior bowl right now..."

So? How in the world does anyone in their right mind come up with someone having an irrational "man crush" on a player...when all these clues have led Mike Mayock and anyone who paid attention to all those hints that MIA does indeed have Matt Ryan a top their draft board?

On top of all this...experts acknowledge that OT class is "deepest in years".

On top of all this...Matt Ryan won the Manning Award, given to the nation's best QB, beating Tim Tebow. He won the Johnny Unitas Award, given to the best senior QB. He proved to be a TD machine by throwing 31 tds and leading a team in the ACC to 11 wins.

On top of all this...Jerry Jones, who is BP/JI/TS's former boss and who hired them because of the same reason that BP hired JI/TS...having a likeminded view when it comes to football...states that "the 'ONLY' player in this year's draft that is worthy to trade UP all the way to #1 for is: QB MATT RYAN of BC!"

For anyone to read this and say that believing that BP is thinking Matt Ryan at #1 is unfounded and ludicrous...is just that....unfounded and pure ludicrous!

shame on all u haters and ostriches!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ri1Kl-5YZgY
http://youtube.com/watch?v=05iR_jqoxLI

i leave u with the words by a "defensive" player, of all people, when asked:

"after all of MIA's offseason aquisitions...what should MIA do with the #1 pick?"

Rod Woodson answers on Total Access during the "state of the miami dolphin franchise": "THEY STILL NEED A FRANCHISE QB".

NUFF SAID? SWOOSH, HE SCORES!!!!!!

you son of a big pushy lady!!!!! Until this, and you know what I mean by this I never believed that he is going to be the #1 pick but you do make some good and I mean good points. I have always said it will be one of the long boys but now I just dont know. Oh and I didnt mean eany disrespect with the pushy lady comment

 

[rent this space]

how does this fit in with your scenario?

http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_football_dolphins/2008/03/henne-moving-up.html

 

[Ludacris]

I disagree with your theory for us trying to hire Carmichael as offensive coordinator because we had JOhn Beck. While its true that he worked under Gary Crowton who happend to recruit John Beck, the real reason he was probably offered the job was that he had worked closely with head coach Tony Sparano in Cleveland in 2000 and Washington in 2001. There is no way in the world that Bill Parcells was making his OC coordinator postion based on a second year Qb at least in my opinion. Also we dont really know for sure if that is the perfect offense for Beck especially when Robert Anae's version of the spread seemed to really suit Beck much better than the Crowton spread option offense. So maybe if we hired Robert Anae I might feel like its a lock that everything revolves around Beck. Another thing is we really are not sure what kind of offense that Carmichael would have ran since he has never been an offensive coordinator. We then hire Dan Henning instead whose offense seems to be nothing like the New Orleans offense. I mean if we were hiring Carmichael to run an offense that would really suit Beck, why wouldn't our replacement choice be of a similar style.

I think it makes far more sense that we tried to hire Carmichael based on him working with head coach Sparano. Just makes more sense to me that Sparano wanted a guy he had worked with and respected more than, this guy's mentor recruited Beck and he is Qb coach for a team that has a Qb that Beck is compared to by some.

Thank you...completely agree with you. Connecting the attempted hiring of Carmichael to Beck and then to ultimately mean the organisation is completely confident in Beck is another case of reading too much into something to support an original premise.

 

[umpalu]

On number 2....not getting Pace doesn't mean a stronger case for C. Long...it could mean nothing...it could mean something for almost any player that can play linebacker...and there's enough of them.

the thread starter made the claim that it since we didn't get pace that meant we wouldn't take C Long. There is no logic in that. The logic is if we tried to fill a need and missed on it than we will try to fill that need again. I was saying that it makes a stronger case for taking him than not taking him according to what was started in this thread. That is all.

 

[TheBow305]

Just because you may think we need a QB, what makes you think RYAN is the answer?He may not even be the best QB in this draft. I would much rather take Henne in the second, who could end up being even better in the pros than Ryan. Who really knows who the answer is? Just because our front office was talking about a QB being vital to the success of the team, does not mean they were talking about Matt Ryan. And to think that way would be foolish.

 

[3rdandinches]

Just because you may think we need a QB, what makes you think RYAN is the answer?He may not even be the best QB in this draft. I would much rather take Henne in the second, who could end up being even better in the pros than Ryan. Who really knows who the answer is? Just because our front office was talking about a QB being vital to the success of the team, does not mean they were talking about Matt Ryan. And to think that way would be foolish.

There's hardly anyone disputing Ryan being the best QB in the draft, most people are saying he's not worth the number 1 pick. Your right he may not end up being the best QB in the draft, but that's a fluke thing that a guy could be picked in the 6th round and be one of the best in the game. He's the best QB heading into the draft, how his career ends up is anyones guess.