My Opinion:Tony Sparano gave a clue to who is a top of MIA's draft board!!!

[Lazy1]

Watching Beck play in Miami last season three things were obvious. First, he wasn't ready to play yet. Second, he had obvious ability. Third, he improved considerably from his first game to his last. If you couldn't/can't see those three things then you should probably refrain from talking about QBs to avoid looking foolish. I've spent some time as an evaluator myself but let Here is an evaluation from one of our resident coaches in the VIP that I felt was very accurate:

"Some things that I noticed in the video on Beck....

- He has great "touch" on his throws
- He makes quick decisions that tend to be correct
- His receivers arent having to slow down to catch the ball (it's been a long time since we've had that)
- He has some mobility
- He can be dangerous when given time
- very accurate
- He does not have a slow release, in fact it's pretty quick
- He plays with emotion

- He is throwing off of his back foot too often, and appears comfortable doing it. That means he has a bad habit to break.
- Related to throwing on his back foot, he needs to gain confidence in his protection and step up into his throws for ever greater accuracy (which could be scarey in terms of how good he could be) and to improve throwing strength / power. Once he locks into that mode of confidence and steps into his throws, I think he's going to make huge gains into being a quality Pro QB."

(I hope he doesn't mind me displaying his post. I won't reveal him just in case he doesn't feel the desire to enter into this very silly debate)

Additionally the reports that were leaked out right after the season were that Ron Wolf, who sat with BP in the press box, gave BP a positive evaluation of Beck. That BP, after reviewing the season tapes, was surprisingly impressed with Beck. This was closely followed by the hiring of Lee to mentor Beck, which is what you would expect if the reports were true. Most recently, Gil Brandt who has been a long time confidant of BP's and who has a pretty solid reputation as an evaluator himself, reported that he spent several hours with BP and that BP had a very high opinion of Beck and that he didn't think the Dolphins would take Ryan.

We're you watching the same player as me? I mean his scouting report coming out of college said he was very accurate and threw with good touch, but i didnt see that last year at least not consistently. Maybe they were looking at his films from college, but if you looked at his film/watched his games from last years he held onto the ball way to long and alot of his passes were very inaccurate/short. I'm not saying he cant do those things you mentioned but he defenately didnt do those things consistley enough last year to say john beck has most of those attributes.

 

[JsBaugh]

There's a whole lot of misinformation, I agree. Here's the problem with the trade up scenario. If Parcells and Ireland view Ryan as the type of QB that teams would be willing to trade up for, they have to consider Ryan for the Dolphins QB. However one wants to look at it, when a career backup journeyman has a legitimate chance to be your starter, your QB position isnt settled. What I am saying simply is we're in the home stretch now in evaluations and that it seems that Parcells and Ireland still havent ruled out Ryan. What that tellls me is its going to come down to how much faith they have in him being a franchise QB in the future. If they dont feel Ryan can be a franchise QB they will pass on him and draft one of the Long's or maybe Gholston. The point is that Ryan is the first consideration. If he passes the Parcells/Ireland test he will be our pick

Ask yourself, why would the Fins want to trade out of the first pick which has been reported since last year? Do you believe that if they have the chance they would do that? If your answer is yes then Matt Ryan is not a Franchise QB because if he was you would be hearing a lot more about how they are going to draft him.
Could it be they have seen enough in Beck to work with him for a fraction of the price? All reports seem to agree with this theory.

Ryan lovers, its time for a reality check.

 

[JsBaugh]

We're you watching the same player as me? I mean his scouting report coming out of college said he was very accurate and threw with good touch, but i didnt see that last year at least not consistently. Maybe they were looking at his films from college, but if you looked at his film/watched his games from last years he held onto the ball way to long and alot of his passes were very inaccurate/short. I'm not saying he cant do those things you mentioned but he defenately didnt do those things consistley enough last year to say john beck has most of those attributes.

Its called a rookie on a HORRIBLE team. Its also called fans with unrealistic expectations.

 

[MonstBlitz]

I have no problem with you wanting Ryan, but at least state some facts instead of this stuff.

Are you serious? My argument contains just as many facts as yours does. You know how many that is? NONE. It's comparing a recent team to some old teams. It's opinion. I think Marino made some poor teams competetive during his 17 seasons at Miami. You think none of them were as bad as last years. It's opinion. We can agree to disagree, but you stating that your argument contains anymore facts than mine is absurd.

 

[dlockz]

1) It's not outside of the realm of reason to believe it was a combination of both, that is carmichael worked with sparano before and because carmichael worked with someone who worked with beck. Makes him the perfect pick IMO.
2) You stating you think they wanted carmichael because he worked with sparano is doing the same thing you are arguing against. Assuming someone was hired because of their connection with someone else.

How many assistants are hired because they have worked with a coach?
Every coach hires assistants that they have worked with. The NFL is loaded with this relationship. Look at the coach and GM that Parcells hired, do you think thier prior relationship was a factor? If you think I'm reaching for straws please show me where this is not common practice in the NFL. Coaches take thier people onto thier staffs. I guarantee you can go through every team in the NFL and there is at least one example per team.

How many teams have hired an offensive coordinator because he worked with a guy that worked with your qb in college. A second year Qb at that.
Please cite one example of this ever happening. I guarantee that might be difficult. Qb coach maybe but offensive coordinator, I know of not one example.

Then you miss on Carmichael and hire Dan Henning who is nothing like Carmichael. Why not hire Crowton Beck's old coach who is an experienced offensive coordinator even at the NFL level or why not Robert Anae OC at BYU.

So in your mind its just as likely that Carmichael was being signed because he coached under Crowton at Louisina Tech as it was he worked with Sparano(our head coach) at Cleveland and Washington. If you were a betting man
what would you say the odds were of each scenario. You seem a logical man. I dont think your being realistic here.


By the way the guy we hired was Bill Parcells OC with the Jets.

 

[zach8111]

If the Dolphins were going to draft Matt Ryan, they wouldn't have tried to install the perfect offense for John Beck to run by trying to hire a guy whose mentor was John Beck's mentor and who recruited Beck to BYU.

The pick will be either Chris Long, Jake Long, Glenn Dorsey or Vernon Gholston.

very good point. i didnt realize that we hired the guy who recruited him to byu. i agree with you on who the pick will be. JL, CL, VG, but i'd say dorsey have fallen behind ellis

 

[dlockz]

very good point. i didnt realize that we hired the guy who recruited him to byu. i agree with you on who the pick will be. JL, CL, VG, but i'd say dorsey have fallen behind ellis

You misunderstood. We tried to hire a guy who worked for the guy who recruited Beck. He was being hired more so because he is considered an up and coming offensive coordinator who many teams have coveted. Carmichael and Beck had no relationship except they both were brought to schools by Crowton.

 

[rafael]

We're you watching the same player as me? I mean his scouting report coming out of college said he was very accurate and threw with good touch, but i didnt see that last year at least not consistently. Maybe they were looking at his films from college, but if you looked at his film/watched his games from last years he held onto the ball way to long and alot of his passes were very inaccurate/short. I'm not saying he cant do those things you mentioned but he defenately didnt do those things consistley enough last year to say john beck has most of those attributes.

http://s224.photobucket.com/albums/dd1/bytesandbits/?action=view&current=2007JBExhibitionPerf.flv

Above is the exact video the coach was referring to. As you can see it was from the NFL preseason. The last two passes in particular showed incredible touch and accuracy. The things you mentioned about holding the ball and inaccuracies were clearly the result of being put in before he was ready. He had the usual not knowing what to do/speed of the game problems that you should expect a rookie to have. And of course he was inconsistent, he's still learning what to do. But what you look for when you analyze a QB is if he can do these things. You look for whether mistakes are correctable and whether the QB is learning. With Beck he clearly has the ability and his history shows a high ability to learn.

 

[3rdandinches]

No, get ur data correct...JI said "DT", not "DL". He said that "DT" and "QB" are our focus points. Tony Sparano said that "QB" is more important than OL to build your franchise around. Get ur facts straight.

Then, by Sparano's own words, "we aren't going to use anything other than this past season's tape to evaluate john beck"....get real for once!

What a big mistake on my behalf sorry.
So Sparano said he wants to build the franchise around the QB, sounds good. That's what alot of people have been saying on this site. Let's do everything we can to build up talent around Beck, Sparano couldn't have said that clear enough.
Of course he evaluated J.Beck, as he will also evaluate every other QB possibility and I stated if he's really concerned about the bad plays with Beck do you think that he wouldn't do the same for your boy. Which is bad news for him!
I am real more than once over, you say these are facts and everyone should see that, but any time someone disputes you with facts of college stats, rookie QB stats, talent around Beck, or other quotes supporting Beck you seem to be able to dismiss them as nothing. Yet alot of your statements are interpretations of what YOU believe people are trying to say.
We all can interpret what the FO is thinking and slant it in any direction to help ones arguements. The fact still remains M.Ryan is not worthy of the Number 1 pick in the draft, the facts show he has done nothing to prove otherwise. This would be a huge reach on our behalf and teams who do that suffer more than get rewarded.
Nobody would want C.Long or J.Long if they were above average in the main talent that makes their position. Nobody said their surprisingly agile because there's nothing surprising about them they are what they are which is great talents. Everyone gets wowed by both the Longs by their athletic ability , strength, speed, determination and flat out talent none of which can be said about Matty Ice.
You would be setting up this franchise for a huge fall if we did it your way, luckily BP and JI aren't that blinded. They can see through the hype and choose talent over a wanna be.
I don't want to change your mind, I'm just sick of your bs facts and the fact that I've never seen a post about why M.Ryan has all the tools to be great in the NFL, NOT ONE. Keep throwing your interpretations out there because that's all the ammunition you have.

 

[unluckyluciano]

How many assistants are hired because they have worked with a coach?

How many assistants aren't hired when they have worked with a coach before? I bet more then are. Bad question

Every coach hires assistants that they have worked with. The NFL is loaded with this relationship. Look at the coach and GM that Parcells hired, do you think thier prior relationship was a factor? If you think I'm reaching for straws please show me where this is not common practice in the NFL. Coaches take thier people onto thier staffs. I guarantee you can go through every team in the NFL and there is at least one example per team.

I never said they didn't hire people they worked with in fact I said a combination of the reason Boomer mentioned and the reason you mentioned is not that far from possible and would be the ultimate coach so to speak.

How many teams have hired an offensive coordinator because he worked with a guy that worked with your qb in college. A second year Qb at that.
Please cite one example of this ever happening. I guarantee that might be difficult. Qb coach maybe but offensive coordinator, I know of not one example.

Read above.

Then you miss on Carmichael and hire Dan Henning who is nothing like Carmichael. Why not hire Crowton Beck's old coach who is an experienced offensive coordinator even at the NFL level or why not Robert Anae OC at BYU.

Other factors came into play like not getting the coach/ coaches we wanted. I don't see your point.

So in your mind its just as likely that Carmichael was being signed because he coached under Crowton at Louisina Tech as it was he worked with Sparano(our head coach) at Cleveland and Washington. If you were a betting man
what would you say the odds were of each scenario. You seem a logical man. I dont think your being realistic here.

Again never said that. I said it was not outside the realm of reason. And then I condemned your logic as working effectively against your own argument. Which it does. You saying we could not hire someone because of their connection to beck or it not being a factor, effectively works against your own logic that other coaches were hired because of their connection to parcells. Now if you argued strength of connection then that would make sense. I never said you were wrong I said it could be a combination of both which makes the most sense, more bang for your buck so to speak. And now you are trying to completely dismiss the notion that Beck played any part into the reasoning.

 

[fishypete]

when you post please use logic and truths

#1 Sparano also said that if he had to go back further on players to watch tape he would.
#2 Not getting Pace makes a stronger case for C Long, not the other way around since we didnt fill a need in the coaching staffs eyes.
#3 I am going back to watching the NCAA tourney so I am not going to keep breaking this down, but please don't bend the truth or play connect the dots anymore.

On number 2....not getting Pace doesn't mean a stronger case for C. Long...it could mean nothing...it could mean something for almost any player that can play linebacker...and there's enough of them.

 

[NJFINSFAN1]

Are you serious? My argument contains just as many facts as yours does. You know how many that is? NONE. It's comparing a recent team to some old teams. It's opinion. I think Marino made some poor teams competetive during his 17 seasons at Miami. You think none of them were as bad as last years. It's opinion. We can agree to disagree, but you stating that your argument contains anymore facts than mine is absurd.

Okay, you can disagree, but I'm sticking to my guns.

 

[JsBaugh]

http://s224.photobucket.com/albums/dd1/bytesandbits/?action=view&current=2007JBExhibitionPerf.flv

Above is the exact video the coach was referring to. As you can see it was from the NFL preseason. The last two passes in particular showed incredible touch and accuracy. The things you mentioned about holding the ball and inaccuracies were clearly the result of being put in before he was ready. He had the usual not knowing what to do/speed of the game problems that you should expect a rookie to have. And of course he was inconsistent, he's still learning what to do. But what you look for when you analyze a QB is if he can do these things. You look for whether mistakes are correctable and whether the QB is learning. With Beck he clearly has the ability and his history shows a high ability to learn.

Great video. I love the last TD. 40 yards in the air of his back foot for a strike. If anyone is arguing Beck cant make the throws needed there is something wrong with them.

 

[adamprez2003]

The fact still remains M.Ryan is not worthy of the Number 1 pick in the draft, the facts show he has done nothing to prove otherwise. This would be a huge reach on our behalf and teams who do that suffer more than get rewarded.

But these arent facts just your perception which is fine but its not fact. Many professionals have gone on record (Heckert, Casserly, etc) who have said Ryan is worthy of being number 1. Spin it anyway you want but there are more than enough pros that disgaree with you that that statement cant be considered fact.

Nobody would want C.Long or J.Long if they were above average in the main talent that makes their position. Nobody said their surprisingly agile because there's nothing surprising about them they are what they are which is great talents. Everyone gets wowed by both the Longs by their athletic ability , strength, speed, determination and flat out talent none of which can be said about Matty Ice.

Chris Long isnt the physical specimen that Gholston is. The reason people are "wowed" by Chris Long as you put it is because they had lower expectations. Same with Ryan and his mobility at his proday. Was it hustle or did he have athletic ability? Long proved he has athletic ability and Ryan proved he can move. Neither is in the top of their respective positions. Noone can say Long has better athletic ability than Gholston just like noone is going to say that Ryan is Josh Johnson running or Flacco throwing. As for Jake Long what was the wow factor with him? I missed it. People still arent sure if he can transition to left tackle. How much wow can a right tackle have?

You would be setting up this franchise for a huge fall if we did it your way, luckily BP and JI aren't that blinded. They can see through the hype and choose talent over a wanna be.
I don't want to change your mind, I'm just sick of your bs facts and the fact that I've never seen a post about why M.Ryan has all the tools to be great in the NFL, NOT ONE. Keep throwing your interpretations out there because that's all the ammunition you have

So if Bill Parcells and Ireland actually do choose Ryan its because they have been "blinded" as you so well put it? As for tools to succeed, noone doubts that Ryan has the enough tools to succeed. Does he have a Russell gun, no but any knowledgeable football fan knows by now you dont need that to succeed. The one quality he seems to possess that is absolutely integral to success is what's behind his ears. That, there seems to be common agreement about. The dreaded word intangibles. Cant measure it you just know it when you see it. Will it be enough? Noone ever knows for sure but this guy is in play and if our FO feels comfortable with the guy he'll be our choice. There is nothing to indicate that he's not in consideration. And if he's being considered then the ball is in his court because all things being equal we'll go QB. Its only if we feel that Chris or Jake or vernon are heads and shoulders above him that we'll take someone else

 

[wyo]

Great post. If there's only one quote the Beck backers read, I hope it's this one -

"sure, we 'HAD' a high opinion of him coming out of college, sure."

I can't count how many times I've heard the argument, "Talent evaluators like Beck." No. Talent evaluators LIKED Beck. Opinions change after watching a performance like last season's.

The thing is, there is not much difference between Beck in college and Ryan in college. "Talent evaluators" liked both. You can find utube video of Beck in college that outshines the video in this first post. Beck went late second round. Ryan is not worth the #1 overall pick.