NL Mvp

[Boik14]

So pitcher who pitches great cant get it in a time when pitching great is harder, and neither can a DH because he doesnt play the field?

I dont like giving it to a pitcher either BTW

Only a pitcher who pitches great deserves to get the MVP and its only because pitching is at such a premium now that Id consider it. It would have to be an all time great season like the ones I listed because pitchers now only get to pitch in roughly 33-35 games a season, about 1/5th of a teams games, and an even smaller percentage of the actual innings played. I suppose back in other era's when teams had 3-4 man rotations I could give it a little more consideration because of the opportunity to impact more games.

But if say, the Jays go 31 and 3 in games Halladay starts, the team overall has a good record, and Halladay had a line of say 24w-3l-2.L a 2.20 or less era-220+ k and a sub 1 whip then yea I think that demonstrates enough dominance to earn the award.

 

[phinphan896]

id also say soriano. Just look at the numbers

 

[djfresh47]

id also say soriano. Just look at the numbers

He's got insane numbers but his team is awful. I can't justify giving the MVP to a guy who is on a last place team. It's not an award for the best player it's for the most valuable. NL Mvp right now is Pujols, I think Beltran/Wright are going to split votes. If the Phillies can some how get the Wildcard maybe Ryan Howard gets a few votes.

 

[MikeO]

The nationals are 4 games out of 2nd place.

If they finish in 2nd or 3rd place does that change anything with some of you people?

Just asking,

 

[NJFINSFAN1]

Carlos Beltran or Puljos should win it, Soriano is an afterthought!

 

[Alex44]

The nationals are 4 games out of 2nd place.

If they finish in 2nd or 3rd place does that change anything with some of you people?

Just asking,

If they finish close to the wildcard yes.

If they finish 12+ games back of the Mets in second place and way out of the wildcard then no

 

[FinsNYanksFan13]

I'd say either Beltran or Wright for the MVP in the NL simply because their numbers are as good as anyone else in the league's and they play on the best team by far. As far as the AL I have no problem going with Papi. If a pitcher can pitch every 5 days and win an MVP (which they have in the past even though it isn't often) then a DH can win IMO!

 

[NJFINSFAN1]

I'd say either Beltran or Wright for the MVP in the NL simply because their numbers are as good as anyone else in the league's and they play on the best team by far. As far as the AL I have no problem going with Papi. If a pitcher can pitch every 5 days and win an MVP (which they have in the past even though it isn't often) then a DH can win IMO!

Good post, while I love Wright, and he carried us early I think Beltran has had some huge hits lately, and his numbers are better then Wrights. But having two guys like that may hurt them being on the same team. To me Soriano is not even in the picture.

If Ortiz does not win, its a sham! Without him and all those big hits, the Red Sox's are 10 games if not more out!

And before someone asks why Soriano is not in the picture, I would say Zimmerman on the Nats is the MVP of that team, he has more RBI's and the same Average and a better defensive player. Soriano has driven himself in 35 times and still has three less RBI's then Zimmerman. I would also say Beltran, Wright, Pujols and Utley deserve it more then Soriano.

 

[finswin56]

No, I beg to differ brother Joe. Saying a player on a last place shouldnt win MVP is just an opinion that makes sense. If a player plays for a last place team they technically speaking, cant be that much worse. He may have great stats but the MVP is reserved for a great player, and great players elevate their club out of the cellar. Heck Id give it to Howard or Utley, Berkman or even Andruw Jones before Soriano. Theyve had strong seasons and their teams are at or around 500.

What else could he do? This is like when people say Marino can't be considered as the greatest all time because of no SB victory when he mainly played on teams with poor D. Soriano can't do anything about the Nat's pitching. BTW, the Nat's are only 2.5 behind the Braves, 4 behind the Astros, and 4.5 behind the Phillies. There's not much difference there.

I just want to make it clear that I don't believe Soriano should be on equal footing with Beltran and Pujols; I just don't agree with the idea that a guy on a team out of contention can't be valuable. I do think that player needs to blow away the competition like Andre Dawson did for the Cubs. Do you think he shouldn't have received the MVP that year?

 

[finswin56]

Good post, while I love Wright, and he carried us early I think Beltran has had some huge hits lately, and his numbers are better then Wrights. But having two guys like that may hurt them being on the same team. To me Soriano is not even in the picture.

If Ortiz does not win, its a sham! Without him and all those big hits, the Red Sox's are 10 games if not more out!

And before someone asks why Soriano is not in the picture, I would say Zimmerman on the Nats is the MVP of that team, he has more RBI's and the same Average and a better defensive player. Soriano has driven himself in 35 times and still has three less RBI's then Zimmerman. I would also say Beltran, Wright, Pujols and Utley deserve it more then Soriano.

Regarding Zimmerman, he does have the fortune of batting 3rd while Soriano leads off with a .363 OBP. Those RBI differences must be taken into context.

 

[NJFINSFAN1]

Regarding Zimmerman, he does have the fortune of batting 3rd while Soriano leads off with a .363 OBP. Those RBI differences must be taken into context.

Maybe, but I have been talking to a friend in Washington DC who is a season ticket holder, he says without Zimmerman, they would be so bad. When I said what about Soriano, he said nobody really thinks of him as a Nat anyway, he will be gone and he has cost many games with his lack of defense and hustle.

I just don't see Soriano getting many votes at all.

 

[finswin56]

Maybe, but I have been talking to a friend in Washington DC who is a season ticket holder, he says without Zimmerman, they would be so bad. When I said what about Soriano, he said nobody really thinks of him as a Nat anyway, he will be gone and he has cost many games with his lack of defense and hustle.

I just don't see Soriano getting many votes at all.

I don't see Soriano getting many either, but only because of the Nat's position. BTW, I'm not totally with you on Zimm being their MVP. Soriano has 23 more Runs, 20 more HR's, and 19 more SB's, while only have 3 less RBI than the #3 hitter. Zimm's D has been great, but Soriano gets that team started, kind of like Reyes with the Mets. Everyone gets caught up with Wright and Beltran, but the Mets success can be traced very closely with Reyes' success.

BTW, I don't know if you remember my post in March when I went to the Mets and Nat's spring game, but here it is http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/showpost.php?p=2115039&postcount=46
Although it wasn't too hard to see the future greatness in that kid. I still can't believe he and D. Wright played on the same HS team.

 

[Boik14]

What else could he do? This is like when people say Marino can't be considered as the greatest all time because of no SB victory when he mainly played on teams with poor D. Soriano can't do anything about the Nat's pitching. BTW, the Nat's are only 2.5 behind the Braves, 4 behind the Astros, and 4.5 behind the Phillies. There's not much difference there.

I just want to make it clear that I don't believe Soriano should be on equal footing with Beltran and Pujols; I just don't agree with the idea that a guy on a team out of contention can't be valuable. I do think that player needs to blow away the competition like Andre Dawson did for the Cubs. Do you think he shouldn't have received the MVP that year?

There's a huge difference between baseball and football; in baseball you play offense and defense. In football your virtually helpless if the other side of the ball is just inept. As far as the pitching its not his fault for an underachieving staff but he hasnt elevated the club either. I mean they were better record wise last year so theyve actually gotten worse...

 

[djfresh47]

I'd say either Beltran or Wright for the MVP in the NL simply because their numbers are as good as anyone else in the league's and they play on the best team by far. As far as the AL I have no problem going with Papi. If a pitcher can pitch every 5 days and win an MVP (which they have in the past even though it isn't often) then a DH can win IMO!

Beltran and Wright are good choices but if the Cardinals don't have Pujols they're a laughing stock in the league. I do think Ortiz will win MVP but I don't believe a DH should unless he's got numbers that blow everybody elses away. Basically he'd have to put up Bonds on 'roids numbers. It's not like a case couldn't be made for guys like Jeter/Dye/Morneau either who are having very good seasons and play the whole game.

 

[MikeO]

Beltran and Wright are good choices but if the Cardinals don't have Pujols they're a laughing stock in the league. I do think Ortiz will win MVP but I don't believe a DH should unless he's got numbers that blow everybody elses away. Basically he'd have to put up Bonds on 'roids numbers. It's not like a case couldn't be made for guys like Jeter/Dye/Morneau either who are having very good seasons and play the whole game.

Manny's numbers aren't far off from Ortiz's and he has done it in 41 less at bats. Factor in the next 7 weeks and their numbers could end up being around equal with Manny doing it in less at bats. You can make a case Ortiz isn't the MVP of his team, Manny is if you go strictly by the numbers.