**Official 2013 Draft Prospect Discussion Thread**

[SF Dolphin Fan]

For a long time I've liked Shayne Skov above Te'o. This may be assuming a lot with respect to Skov's injury and how well he's coming back from it, but I still do.

This could be an excellent draft for Miami to really tackle their problem areas. Best case scenario, at least from this far out, might be to get a good wr in free agency and then concentrate on pass rushers and rebuilding the linebacking corps. I know you probably don't want to stick a round on a prospect this early, but where about would Shayne Skov and Chase Thomas project? I like Thomas a lot. I think he has pass rush ability and versatility. Also, I'm not the biggest fan of Karlos Dansby. He is a good player, but he really turned me off by coming into the season overweight last year. With his contract and supposed leadership status that should not happen.

 

[ckparrothead]

I think Karlos Dansby is about to play at a pretty high level for a while. The problem is we're paying for it. He's making a lot of damn money. But, those are the breaks I guess. I don't think we're going to be discussing ditching Karlos in a year, even with his big price tag.

And yeah, I thought it was total BS how he showed up 25+ lbs overweight a year ago and still collected the leadership award. I agree with you. But that's in the past. If he doesn't do it again, I'm fine.

I agree this Draft seems like one we can use to address problem areas but one problem area I think still needs addressing despite the 3rd round pick in Olivier Vernon is defensive end, and next year's class should be a banner year for that position. They really need to partake in that class and work on getting BIG, MEATY and EXPLOSIVE defensive ends that they can put on the field in any situation and beat people one-on-one.

I'm a big fan of Bjoern Werner, but I also love guys like James Gayle, Dion Jordan, Cornellius Carradine and Malliciah Goodman. Get one. Maybe get two. With the kind of defense the Dolphins are running, they need to revamp the unit and fill it with the type of 6'4" to 6'5" and 255-275 lbs guys that you see on the Giants. There will still be plenty of room for Cam Wake and Olivier Vernon.

Aside from that obviously they also need an influx of wide receiver talent. They may decide to address that issue in free agency with someone like Dwayne Bowe, but also maybe not.

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

I think Karlos Dansby is about to play at a pretty high level for a while. The problem is we're paying for it. He's making a lot of damn money. But, those are the breaks I guess. I don't think we're going to be discussing ditching Karlos in a year, even with his big price tag.

And yeah, I thought it was total BS how he showed up 25+ lbs overweight a year ago and still collected the leadership award. I agree with you. But that's in the past. If he doesn't do it again, I'm fine.

I agree this Draft seems like one we can use to address problem areas but one problem area I think still needs addressing despite the 3rd round pick in Olivier Vernon is defensive end, and next year's class should be a banner year for that position. They really need to partake in that class and work on getting BIG, MEATY and EXPLOSIVE defensive ends that they can put on the field in any situation and beat people one-on-one.

I'm a big fan of Bjoern Werner, but I also love guys like James Gayle, Dion Jordan, Cornellius Carradine and Malliciah Goodman. Get one. Maybe get two. With the kind of defense the Dolphins are running, they need to revamp the unit and fill it with the type of 6'4" to 6'5" and 255-275 lbs guys that you see on the Giants. There will still be plenty of room for Cam Wake and Olivier Vernon.

Aside from that obviously they also need an influx of wide receiver talent. They may decide to address that issue in free agency with someone like Dwayne Bowe, but also maybe not.

Another guy who might fit that is Jeffcoat. I believe he's in the 6-4/6-5 250 range. Yeah, I'd be real excited if the Dolphins added two quality DE's early. The defense would have a chance to be special and we all know the only way to slow down Tom Brady and the Patriots is constant pressure coming from everywhere. I hope you are right about Dansby. On the field he is a good football player and I'd love to see him at his best this year and in the future. I'll be tuning in to see Werner.

 

[MiamiDolphin618]

I hope Vernon shows well this year...but I agree on adding another DE or two. I would be looking for an impact DE in the 1st or 2nd, and then maybe another in the 4th or so. Count me on the Mingo bandwagon at this point. Obviously this next year will tell a lot, but Mingo is just electric. He doesn't have ideal strength yet, but he can work on that. He could easily be a 3rd down rusher to start, which would allow someone like Vernon to slide inside on 3rd down where he and Odrick could create a pretty impressive interior rush IMO..along with Starks in the rotation if he is still around. We could also be in the market for a starting CB depending on how Smith plays this year and what kind of money he wants.

 

[ckparrothead]

Another guy who might fit that is Jeffcoat. I believe he's in the 6-4/6-5 250 range. Yeah, I'd be real excited if the Dolphins added two quality DE's early. The defense would have a chance to be special and we all know the only way to slow down Tom Brady and the Patriots is constant pressure coming from everywhere. I hope you are right about Dansby. On the field he is a good football player and I'd love to see him at his best this year and in the future. I'll be tuning in to see Werner.

I dislike Jeffcoat. He's just not very effective right now.

 

[ckparrothead]

I hope Vernon shows well this year...but I agree on adding another DE or two. I would be looking for an impact DE in the 1st or 2nd, and then maybe another in the 4th or so. Count me on the Mingo bandwagon at this point. Obviously this next year will tell a lot, but Mingo is just electric. He doesn't have ideal strength yet, but he can work on that. He could easily be a 3rd down rusher to start, which would allow someone like Vernon to slide inside on 3rd down where he and Odrick could create a pretty impressive interior rush IMO..along with Starks in the rotation if he is still around. We could also be in the market for a starting CB depending on how Smith plays this year and what kind of money he wants.

I just don't know if from a structure standpoint having Mingo and Wake as the bookends is how I want to organize things. That's like having Mathis and Freeney and while they rushed the hell out of the passer, that was a very specialized defense and I'm not sure Kevin Coyle will be running something that could sustain having those two as the bookends.

I'd rather start populating the DL with some big, lengthy and explosive pass rushers...guys like I just named, Dion Jordan, Bjoern Werner, Cornellius Carradine, James Gayle, maybe Malliciah Goodman.

 

[NY8123]

I don't know if it's thin or what. I like Matt Elam a bunch. I think he'll surprise people with interceptions when he works on his hands a little better. He's got undisciplined hands and that gets him penalties as well as dropped interceptions, but there's an instinctive ball hawk hiding in him. I don't think there's any way to say T.J. McDonald is a BAD prospect, he's sudden and explosive, but you do need to see more from him. I like Kenny Vaccaro. I think Tyrann Mathieu probably does move to safety at the next level. Not all these guys will come out but that's not a bad start to the position.

The underclassman declaring are always the aspect that makes or breaks the strength of a particular draft. This particular group of underclassman safeties will make for an exceptionally strong safety class if the top 3 or 4 declare eligible. Reid, Whitley, Jefferson, and Elam were all outstanding as sophomores. They're on an entirely different level physically than you typically see out of sophomore safeties... specifically Nickoe Whitley.

Reid and Whitley are both explosive tacklers, but also fundamentally sound tacklers when they need to be. As I mentioned in my underclassman thread a few months ago when I started it, I don't think I've ever seen a more violent hitter than Nickoe Whitley at safety.... and I watched Kenny Easley and Ronnie Lott in college. Whitley's ability to explode into contact with precision exceeds anything I've seen. However, what makes Whitley and Reid both special young DB's is their combination of ball skills and range to compliment their ability to be explosive hitters. Their versatility to play either safety spot sets 'em apart.

Jefferson and Elam are more squatty safeties who overcome their lack of prototypical height for the position with instincts and football IQ. They both take proper angles to the ball and read their run/pass keys correctly instantly. Advanced fundamentally in their tackling to be so young.

Any one of these safeties declaring early is going to add tremendous talent and skill to the safety class in addition to their upside to keep getting even better. They'll help the Senior crop that's also strong at the top with Robert Lester. There's some kids mixed in with that Senior group that I feel like are a little overrated (T.J. McDonald) but it's offset by underrated prospects like Dexter McCoil.

It sets up to be a terrific draft for safeties, very strong. Again, the key though is the underclassman.

I can only hope that this scenario transpires comes next winter and spring. This safety quagmire that Miami seems to be tangled in needs to be fixed. I guess I don't have high hopes for both safety positions this season given the roster and talent level. Jones and Clemons have their shortcomings and the rest of the safeties on the roster....well what can I say, they are lease than inspiring barring some colossal break through.

So with that said I would be happy as a pig in **** if Miami used a higher round pick next offseason on a high potential safety. So let me ask who off those lists are earmarked for round 1, 2 etc...my travel plans seem to be changing as I type so now my November is likely to be shot but at least I get to see College and the NFL seasons kick off. I'll take it!

 

[MiamiDolphin618]

I just don't know if from a structure standpoint having Mingo and Wake as the bookends is how I want to organize things. That's like having Mathis and Freeney and while they rushed the hell out of the passer, that was a very specialized defense and I'm not sure Kevin Coyle will be running something that could sustain having those two as the bookends.

I'd rather start populating the DL with some big, lengthy and explosive pass rushers...guys like I just named, Dion Jordan, Bjoern Werner, Cornellius Carradine, James Gayle, maybe Malliciah Goodman.

I would be thrilled with some of those guys you mentioned. I just see rare explosion out of Mingo. I agree it would be a little light in the pants as bookends...but that could be an elite pass rush. And the Colts never had a DT worth anything, Big Paul, Starks, Odrick, and a solid LB core could ease the weakness as far as being ran all over. Also, do you think Mingo could play a similar role to how Von Miller played this year? He seems like he is fluid enough to play some OLB yet still rush the passer and drop down to DE on 3rd down, etc.

Don't get me wrong though, if we walk away with a guy like Gayle or Werner I will not be upset at all.

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

I would be thrilled with some of those guys you mentioned. I just see rare explosion out of Mingo. I agree it would be a little light in the pants as bookends...but that could be an elite pass rush. And the Colts never had a DT worth anything, Big Paul, Starks, Odrick, and a solid LB core could ease the weakness as far as being ran all over. Also, do you think Mingo could play a similar role to how Von Miller played this year? He seems like he is fluid enough to play some OLB yet still rush the passer and drop down to DE on 3rd down, etc.

Don't get me wrong though, if we walk away with a guy like Gayle or Werner I will not be upset at all.

I like Mingo as well, especially considering that Wake isn't a young pup. Mingo is probably the best pure pass rusher in this draft. Saying that, I definitely understand why CK loves Werner. I've checked out his highlights and he has a nice first step and is a bigger guy who can defend the run. I need to see him live to get more of a feel.

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

Elam is going to get knocked for his height (between 5'10" and 5'11") right off the bat. He doesn't have the ball hawking ability of an Earl Thomas (who was also coached by Muschamp at Texas) at that size, so he's not going to make up for it there. However, I really like Elam. He's a hard worker, a good kid, has leadership qualities, and dedicated to film study. He's a very assignment sound safety. He's got good hips, evident by how Muschamp will use him in the slot in man coverage. Basically, I have him as a 2nd rounder at this point, and the 3rd underclassman safety behind Eric Reid and Nickoe Whitley.

Bacarri Rambo is a higher risk type of kid due to off field issues, but the ability is there. He's got 13 INT's in 3 years, and returned 3 of 'em for TD's.

Kevin Minter is probably the best of what's been a weak linebacking unit for LSU, but he never stands out when I watch him. I think he's a mediocre prospect right now, but still has 2 years ahead of him to produce. Probably will need both.

I liked the video highlights you posted of Whitley. He is definitely someone I will watch closely this coming season. Do you see him right now as a 1st rounder?

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

If you want the underrated guys then among my favorite seniors would be:

QB Brad Sorensen, Southern Utah (really I just have a thirst to see more of him)
RB Dennis Johnson, Arkansas
WR Aaron Mellette, Elon
DE Dion Jordan, Oregon
DE Malliciah Goodman, Clemson
DE Cornellius Carradine, Florida State
DT Cory Grissom, South Florida
LB Shayne Skov, Stanford
LB A.J. Klein, Iowa State
LB Jake Knott, Iowa State
LB Sam Barrington, South Florida
LB Kenny Tate, Maryland
CB Kayvon Webster, South Florida
CB Terry Hawthorne, Illinois
SS Shamarko Thomas, Syracuse
FS Vaughn Telemaque, Miami (FL)

Kind of a sparing list at the moment, to tell you the truth.

It might not be a bad idea for Miami to take a mid-round quarterback with both Matt Moore and David Garrard on one-year contracts. Maybe Brad Sorensen could be that guy. Plus, as much as I love Ryan Tannehill, there's no guarantee that he's the guy. I don't know a lot of guys on that list, to be honest, but I like Shayne Skov.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Much like David Pollack used to coming out of Georgia... Werner plays with his head up, and plays so well with his eyes. He sees everything.... and has the ability to get there.

He's nowhere near as dominant yet as Pollack was, but the point is they have similar qualities and use a lot of the same techniques.

 

[hoops]

i'm definitely big on mingo...imo in the national championship game he was the best player at the los period...some serious tools there...definitely needs to get stronger but think about packing another 15-20 lbs on that frame which it looks to me like he'll carry very well and you might have yourself a monster end...i'm not ready to say that he's a stand up player only as a pro...i see a lot of jpp potential there...on upside and tools i'd be jumping on him

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Three points regarding 3 quarterback prospects, a Senior and two underclassman....


1.) I like toughness in a quarterback. If you wont hang tough in the pocket and deliver the football when things aren't going well up front along your offensive line... I don't have time for you. Tyler Wilson sold me on his toughness when he was getting absolutely destroyed versus Bama last year. A lot of quarterbacks would've wilted in that situation, or been knocked out of the game. I've seen Bama's defense do it too many times.... but Wilson hung in there with nothing but grit, and kept gettin' up for more. There's numerous positives to analyze about Wilson.

However, I'm going to point out one of the main issues I see with Tyler Wilson, and it ties in a little bit to the beating he took against Alabama. Wilson has to get better at identifying coverages prior to the snap and recognizing blitzes. It's an issue that I see in every game with him. I need to see that aspect improve during his Senior season. I need to see better communication with his receivers and get the ball out quicker in these situations. Hit his hot reads on a 1 or 3 step drop and stop taking so many unnecessary hits.



2.) Tyler Bray has a long ways to go in order to prove to me that he's a legitimate top underclassman QB prospect, and not just another lanky kid with a live arm and no idea how to play the position. The coaching staff at Tennessee has had issues with Bray and his lack of dedication since he's been there, although he appears to be ready to become more of a student of the game, and work at his craft. Bray's arm is able to perform elite tasks. He spins it as well as any quarterback in the NFL. The problem with Tyler Bray is that he hasn't done anything against SEC competition. He's been overmatched against SEC opponents, and has to play an entire season without getting hurt.

The fundamental flaw with Bray is bad footwork, and it contributes to his poor accuracy. I'm a firm believer that proper footwork is the key to accuracy. Bray's tendancy is to forecast where he's going with the football with his front foot. He gets away with it against lower level competition like Montana, Buffalo, etc... but not against SEC defensive backs. He doesn't get the toe of his front foot pointed at his target consistently.... this flaw in his footwork requires him to deliver the ball from this "side-saddle" position which affects the accuracy and touch of his passes. I can tell where Bray is going with the football on every throw by the time he sets up... so can SEC DB's.. his velocity is the only thing that saves him a lot of times. Basically, he needs to make sure that the notion that he's ready to dedicate himself to working on the details of his craft are true. He can't get away with taking a premature step in the direction he intends to throw and survive the defenses he's going to keep seeing in the SEC.


3.) Logan Thomas is the top underclassman QB prospect on my board right now.. for several reasons. Yes he's big and mobile with a strong arm, but it takes a little more to impress me. He has terrific pocket presence... along with his ball placement and ability to make stick throws in tight windows are what impresses me. However, the Cam Newton comparison is quite a bit off.

Thomas is nowhere near the athlete Cam Newton was. Thomas is a slightly more athletic Josh Freeman, and also comes with the same inconsistency issues as a passer that Freeman had this point in his college career. He's not in Cam Newton's class when he becomes a runner with the ball in his hands. Newton dominated SEC defenses physically with his combination of size, speed, and explosive cutting ability. Logan Thomas would get eat up by SEC defenses.

He has to improve his consistency, especially against the class of the conference (Clemson). In 2 games against Clemson, Thomas was only able to put up 3 points and 10 points, with only 1 TD and 3 INT's... both blowout losses to Clemson, who themselves got blown out 34-13 by the 5th best team in the SEC (South Carolina). That's what it would be like for Thomas to play an SEC schedule.

I look for Thomas to make some improvements in his consistency after getting a season of starting experience under his belt. If Virginia Tech wins the ACC and is in the mix for a BCS bowl by the end of the season, it'll be because of Logan Thomas. They don't have a RB like David Wilson to rely on in 2012. If Virginia Tech struggles, it's because Logan Thomas didn't make the jump in consistency that he needed to. It's his team and they'll go as far as he takes them.

Cam Newton took a team with a terrible defense that would've lost 6 games without him to an undefeated national title. Logan Thomas has a lot to prove to deserve that type of comparison.... and that's coming from someone who had their doubts about Cam Newton. I like Thomas, but he's not Cam Newton.

 

[MiamiDolphin618]

i'm definitely big on mingo...imo in the national championship game he was the best player at the los period...some serious tools there...definitely needs to get stronger but think about packing another 15-20 lbs on that frame which it looks to me like he'll carry very well and you might have yourself a monster end...i'm not ready to say that he's a stand up player only as a pro...i see a lot of jpp potential there...on upside and tools i'd be jumping on him

Agreed. He's the best pure pass rusher for me at the moment. Im intrigued by other guys as well...but Mingo just jumps out at me with those elite tools. This guy looks like a double digit sack guy to me..