Ogunleye to be on NFL Total Access.

[Dolfan954]

Um, actually he is getting raise. I believe, and I could be wrong, but I think he was making somewhere around 500,000 last season. If will be making 1.8 million this season if he plays. Hmmmm, that's a pretty good raise.
If the company I worked for came to me tommorrow and said, "Good work last year, we are going to triple you salary next year and then take a look later on a give you a nice long term contract." I would pretty frikkin happy. I would say thank you, not, No I want more. ANd if you don't give me more I am going to stop coming to work until I give you more.
Not to mention that not one other team ponied up to pay what he wants, Could be because of the compensation or it could be that nobody wanted to pay what Wale and Drew think he is worth.

...or it could be that no one wanted to give up a 1st and a 3rd?

As to the beginning of your post, here's a post I made earlier in this thread:

He's had two good years, not one:
http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/players/playerpage/188505

After 2 years and 25 1/2 sacks, he's established himself as a premier DE, and deserves to be paid market value. You referred to demanding a corner office, but look at the scale we're talking about:

The tender is 1.8, and how much do you think Kearse and Wistrom are getting this year? I would guess at least twice that, as contracts are mostly backloaded nowadays. Ogunleye is as good or better than both DEs, but he should settle for half the salary? I know you wouldn't take that. If your boss came to you and said, "We want you to take on the responsibilities of Vice President of Sales, which normally pays 90k, but we'll give you 45k instead...how does that sound?"

You know exactly what you would do. As soon as you got home...hell, as soon as you got back to your computer at work, you'd go here.....Or maybe here.

And btw, he's a RFA.

Man, I wish CO84 was here on this one too. Well, Jimmy James will have to do, I guess. It's nice to see that a Fiedler hugger has such keen insight on other subjects, huh Jimmy? :tongue: :jk:

 

[pigskinguy]

Well I would take my almost quadrupled salary, assume my employer is telling the truth when he says I will be taken care of later on, and do my job even better next year.
What I wouldn't do is complain and disrupt my workplace and possibly alienate my co-workers.

 

[Jimmy James]

Like I have said about 20 times today, using the tag on Wale will result in paying a terrible price in released players. It's just not a really viable option even if we can clear the $7 million because there is a tiny little window for negotiation, then we lose the tag for the duration of his deal. We can't negotiate again until well after all the good FAs are gone. Don't you remember tagging Taylor?

Wale isn't a FA any more, but he also is not and I do repeat NOT under contract. He has not signed himself away for a year in exchange for money, and he has the perfect right to use the power he does have to choose whether to take the deal or to come in for 6 weeks.

 

[Dolfan954]

...Could tag and send him to Arizona where careers go to die.

Exactly. Does anyone know where Eric Swann disappeared to?

 

[VanDolPhan]

Wale isn't a FA any more, but he also is not and I do repeat NOT under contract. He has not signed himself away for a year in exchange for money, and he has the perfect right to use the power he does have to choose whether to take the deal or to come in for 6 weeks.

Ok fine you made your point...he's not under contract but it doesn't give him a single right above that of any contracted player. Mike McKenzie the CB over in Green Bay is pulling the same crap over there and he's an under contract player. So what are you getting at?

 

[Jimmy James]

Well I would take my almost quadrupled salary, assume my employer is telling the truth when he says I will be taken care of later on, and do my job even better next year.
What I wouldn't do is complain and disrupt my workplace and possibly alienate my co-workers.

Would you really be so eager to trust this employer when they told you last year that they were going to take care of you now? Wouldn't you want to know what the hell changed?

If you made $25k and your colleague made $250k, I assure you that your coworkers aren't going to get pissed off -- they're probably going to wonder when you grew a freaking spine...

 

[Jimmy James]

Ok fine you made your point...he's not under contract but it doesn't give him a single right above that of any contracted player. Mike McKenzie the CB over in Green Bay is pulling the same crap over there and he's an under contract player. So what are you getting at?

He isn't doing the same crap if he is under contract. Being under contract means you have agreed to a pay schedule that you're now insisting isn't good enough. Wale has not done that. If anything, the Dolphins are the ones going against their word from when they told him he'd get his last year.

 

[Dolfan954]

Well I would take my almost quadrupled salary, assume my employer is telling the truth when he says I will be taken care of later on, and do my job even better next year.
What I wouldn't do is complain and disrupt my workplace and possibly alienate my co-workers.

Come on bro. You would accept the 1.8 mil tender when your peers are making at least double that the FIRST year? I have a really hard time believing that. I emphasize first year because those Kearse's salary will continue to increase since it is backloaded.

My point is, it's easy to sit here and speculate...saying you would take less money, but when it comes right down to it, it's all about economics. You would (or at least should) feel disrespected if you bust your tail, and your employer doesn't pay you market value for your position.

 

[VanDolPhan]

He isn't doing the same crap if he is under contract. Being under contract means you have agreed to a pay schedule that you're now insisting isn't good enough. Wale has not done that. If anything, the Dolphins are the ones going against their word from when they told him he'd get his last year.

And? There's no point to be made here. You basically just stated what everyone else is and that the team doesn't have to do jack because of the CBA a "contract" that he's stuck with.

If he was smart he would have signed that tender and kept his mouth shut and the phins most likely would have extended him once they were ready to (surtain extension etc). By opening his big mouth like that he's only jeopardizing $$$.

 

[Jimmy James]

Man, I wish CO84 was here on this one too. Well, Jimmy James will have to do, I guess. It's nice to see that a Fiedler hugger has such keen insight on other subjects, huh Jimmy? :tongue: :jk:

I was thinking the same thing about you, you damned Fiedler basher. :tongue:

 

[Jimmy James]

And? There's no point to be made here. You basically just stated what everyone else is and that the team doesn't have to do jack because of the CBA a "contract" that he's stuck with.

If he was smart he would have signed that tender and kept his mouth shut and the phins most likely would have extended him once they were ready to (surtain extension etc). By opening his big mouth like that he's only jeopardizing $$$.

It goes to Wale's frustration, which goes to an explanation of why he may have gone to the press this week.

If a team tells me I'm going to get mine after the 2003 season, then they tell me that I'm going to have to wait until after the draft, then they either don't call or tell me I'm going to have to wait until after June 1, I'm going to get the very real impression that they don't so much want me around. This smart move stuff goes both ways, particularly if you think that the side in question wants to arrive at an agreement with the other side. I'm not so positive that Wale necessarily wants that outcome at this point. I guess time will tell...

 

[Dolfan954]

I was thinking the same thing about you, you damned Fiedler basher. :tongue:

 

[pigskinguy]

Come on bro. You would accept the 1.8 mil tender when your peers are making at least double that the FIRST year? I have a really hard time believing that. I emphasize first year because those Kearse's salary will continue to increase since it is backloaded.

My point is, it's easy to sit here and speculate...saying you would take less money, but when it comes right down to it, it's all about economics. You would (or at least should) feel disrespected if you bust your tail, and your employer doesn't pay you market value for your position.

Hey that's the deal his union signed.
I really don't know why everyone thinks that Wale is so hard done by. What is happening to him happens to other players too. Just not everyone whines about it.

Now, I would like to say this......As I have scrolled through these Ogun threads I have notice that i have been fairly critical of him. Making it appear I don't like him. I do. I think his a great player and in my heart of heart's I hope the Dolphins lock him up long term, as long as they don't blow the bank and end up losing Chambers in the process.
My problem is with they way he and/or his agent has handled the whole thing. I really believe that if he would have kept quiet, something would have (and may still) been done after the June 1 cuts.
The thing is that the Dolphins, not Wale, hold the cards in this situation, and it is better for them to wait untill closer to camp, after the free agent period and after the draft and after the June 1 cuts to start working on a deal for Wale.
If Wale would have just played that cards he was dealt and not whine through the media (which I understand is the way things often go, doesn't mean I have to like it) and waited until the Dolphins were better prepared or more ready to negotiate instead of trying push things it wouldn't have bothered me so much.
Now everyone's dirty laundry is out in the open and I wonder and fear if the two sides have crossed the point of no return

 

[Gatorman]

You just wrote a reasonable response, and I thank you for that. I do have a few questions for you since you brought up what I quoted, though.

How exactly does this argument you're making work? We have (as best I understand it) $6 million in free cap space. For the moment, I'd like to ignore the rookies because I'm frankly not sure whether they get that money or they get a separate pool -- that rookie cap stuff hasn't ever really been explained to my satisfaction. Let's assume that we can restructure Pat and Sammy to free up $3 million more. Let's say it takes $4.5 million to take care of Wale and $3 million to take care of CC. That leaves us with $1.5 million to spend on June 2 or beyond on the late cuts. Isn't that the same $1.5 million whether we handle our loyal veterans first or last?

What I see with this 6/1 argument is a cop out. This team cannot spend $2 million on a free agent and get CC and Wale done whether no matter what order they do it in. Therefore, we're not missing out on anything.

Am I missing something here?

Yes you are. The fact is that the numbers can be massaged to do whatever we want with them. If we have 6 mil in cap space and can get 3 more from Surtain and Sammy that gives us 9 mil to play with. Anyone cut after June 1st shouldn't cost us more than 1 mil this year so we have 8 to play with. The signing Bonus is what matters here. If we give Wally a 5 year contract with a 7.5 mil signing bonus and a minimum salary this year he'd count 2 mil against the cap. You can do a similar deal with chambers. Yes we will have to restructure these deals in a few years, but by then Tim Bo, Seau, and a few others will be off the books.

The signing bonus is what matters. EVEN IF we give both of them 10 mil signing bonuses, on a 5 year contract those numbers eat only 2 mil of cap space each before the base salaries (which would be close to the minimums) so we still have 2 -3 mil to play with.

Nice job by rick BTW.

The whole idea is there is no reason to go crazy and sign either of these guys till before training camp. If wale gets into a car accident tomorrow he ain't our problem. If a great RT/RG becomes available and we need to bid for him, we have the flexibility to do so. Wally ain't going anywhere and chambers ain't either.

Look for wally to be resigned around june 15th and chambers right before game 1 vs. tennessee

Gator

 

[Dolfan954]

Hey that's the deal his union signed.
I really don't know why everyone thinks that Wale is so hard done by. What is happening to him happens to other players too. Just not everyone whines about it.

Now, I would like to say this......As I have scrolled through these Ogun threads I have notice that i have been fairly critical of him. Making it appear I don't like him. I do. I think his a great player and in my heart of heart's I hope the Dolphins lock him up long term, as long as they don't blow the bank and end up losing Chambers in the process.
My problem is with they way he and/or his agent has handled the whole thing. I really believe that if he would have kept quiet, something would have (and may still) been done after the June 1 cuts.
The thing is that the Dolphins, not Wale, hold the cards in this situation, and it is better for them to wait untill closer to camp, after the free agent period and after the draft and after the June 1 cuts to start working on a deal for Wale.
If Wale would have just played that cards he was dealt and not whine through the media (which I understand is the way things often go, doesn't mean I have to like it) and waited until the Dolphins were better prepared or more ready to negotiate instead of trying push things it wouldn't have bothered me so much.
Now everyone's dirty laundry is out in the open and I wonder and fear if the two sides have crossed the point of no return

They haven't reached the point of no return. This is all posturing and pontificating. Drew has media contacts, and I have no doubt he's been setting up all these interviews for Wale. It's all to get their message across that they will hold out, etc...in an attempt to put pressure on Speilman.

Bottom line:

Speilman is the hot chick who can bang any guy she wants, and Wale is the young dime a dozen trying to get at her.