our receiving corps now miles better than the pats

[The New Guy]

His #s went down when they let Moss go in 2010 and as Gronk and hernandez emerged his #s went back up. He's a GOOD player he's just nowhere near a top WR in this league and b/c of all the dumpoffs people think he is.

If a WR has good stats people say it was because he had other great WRs to take the attention away from him. Those same people will say the WRs stats are down because he wasn't the #1 guy and had great WRs around him taking away from his targets. When he is the #1 guy and his stats are down it is because the D focused all the attention on him because there were no other WR to draw the attention of the D. There is an excuse for everything.

Welker's number were down in 2010 when he was targeted 122 times. They went back up when he was targeted 172 times in 2011 and 174 times in 2012.

 

[zach attach]

The Pats own us until they don't. Words and "On paper" stuff mean nothing.

 

[cdz12250]

Nothing happens until it happens on the field.

 

[nyjunc]

If a WR has good stats people say it was because he had other great WRs to take the attention away from him. Those same people will say the WRs stats are down because he wasn't the #1 guy and had great WRs around him taking away from his targets. When he is the #1 guy and his stats are down it is because the D focused all the attention on him because there were no other WR to draw the attention of the D. There is an excuse for everything.

Welker's number were down in 2010 when he was targeted 122 times. They went back up when he was targeted 172 times in 2011 and 174 times in 2012.

why wasn't he targeted as much? maybe b/c w/o Moss and he was their #1 option and defenses paid more attention to him so he wasn't open as much? as Gronk and Hernandez developed into their top playmakers it opened things up for Wes again.

 

[The New Guy]

why wasn't he targeted as much? maybe b/c w/o Moss and he was their #1 option and defenses paid more attention to him so he wasn't open as much? as Gronk and Hernandez developed into their top playmakers it opened things up for Wes again.

Maybe he was targeted less becasue the O attempted 120 fewer passes?

 

[nyjunc]

Maybe he was targeted less becasue the O attempted 120 fewer passes?

Brady attempted 73 fewer passes than 2009, 4.5 per game.

2010:

In 4 games w/ Moss:
26 recs, 217 yds, 3 TDs
avg: 7 recs, 54 yds, .8 TDs
prorate over a season: 112 recs(would be 4th best), 864 yds(6th best), 13 TDs(by far would be his best)

In 11 games w/o him:
60 recs, 631 yds, 4 TDs
5.4 recs, 57 yds, . 36 TDs
prorate over a season: 86 recs(6th), 912 yd(6th)s, 6 TDs(4th)

Notice any difference?

Brady attempted 122 passes those first 4 games: 31 per game
next 11? 354: 32 per game

attempted more passes yet production went way down- I wonder why that was?

 

[The New Guy]

Brady attempted 73 fewer passes than 2009, 4.5 per game.

2010:

In 4 games w/ Moss:
26 recs, 217 yds, 3 TDs
avg: 7 recs, 54 yds, .8 TDs
prorate over a season: 112 recs(would be 4th best), 864 yds(6th best), 13 TDs(by far would be his best)

In 11 games w/o him:
60 recs, 631 yds, 4 TDs
5.4 recs, 57 yds, . 36 TDs
prorate over a season: 86 recs(6th), 912 yd(6th)s, 6 TDs(4th)

Notice any difference?

Brady attempted 122 passes those first 4 games: 31 per game
next 11? 354: 32 per game

attempted more passes yet production went way down- I wonder why that was?

Brady attempted 73 fewer passes than in 2009 and Welker was targeted 60 fewer times. Moss was not drawing attention away from Welker in the first 4 games of 2010. They could get the ball to Welker on short passes with or without Moss around. It was how they decided to run the O. They didn't have an OC in 2010. They attempted 73 fewer passes than in 2009 and 120 fewer passes than than in 2011. When they had an OC in 2009 and 2011 the pass attempts were much higher and Welker's targets were back to what they usually were.

It is silly to prorate number from just 4 games played compared to 11 games played. You can't just take the results from facing 4 opponents and prorate them to compare results from 11 different opponents and prorating only 4. That would be like me taking Welker's numbers from the game against the Jets when he played with Moss and only had 38 receiving yards and prorating those numbers and then comparing them to the game against Chicago without Moss where he had 115 yards and prorating them to compare.

 

[nyjunc]

Brady attempted 73 fewer passes than in 2009 and Welker was targeted 60 fewer times. Moss was not drawing attention away from Welker in the first 4 games of 2010. They could get the ball to Welker on short passes with or without Moss around. It was how they decided to run the O. They didn't have an OC in 2010. They attempted 73 fewer passes than in 2009 and 120 fewer passes than than in 2011. When they had an OC in 2009 and 2011 the pass attempts were much higher and Welker's targets were back to what they usually were.

It is silly to prorate number from just 4 games played compared to 11 games played. You can't just take the results from facing 4 opponents and prorate them to compare results from 11 different opponents and prorating only 4. That would be like me taking Welker's numbers from the game against the Jets when he played with Moss and only had 38 receiving yards and prorating those numbers and then comparing them to the game against Chicago without Moss where he had 115 yards and prorating them to compare.

It was pure coincidence defenses were putting their best DBs on Moss and he was commanding attention.

Welker is a good player, nothing more. when he has top guys to take attention from him he puts up better #s and still drops big passes.

You know our argument after the NYG SB? never would have happened if Wes catches that ball.

 

[The New Guy]

It was pure coincidence defenses were putting their best DBs on Moss and he was commanding attention.

Welker is a good player, nothing more. when he has top guys to take attention from him he puts up better #s and still drops big passes.

You know our argument after the NYG SB? never would have happened if Wes catches that ball.

In 2010? The games I saw that was not the case. Can you show me that the defenses were always putting their best DBs on Moss? I'm sure Moss helped take away attention in the first few years, but defenses were not focusing on him much that year. The slump in stats was more about how they used Welker than not having Moss around him to take attention away from him.

Who knows? It was a catchable ball but it wasn't an easy catch. He was wide open and Brady was off target a bit. They were only up 2 and would have had it on the Giants 20 with 4 minutes left. If the D held them to a FG, I like Eli's chances. He's a Patriot killer.

 

[tay0365]

I thought they made a brilliant move subtracting Welker and adding Amendola IF Amendola can stay healthy. I have always felt Welker was one of the most overrated players in the league.

..... :rolleyes2:

 

[nyjunc]

In 2010? The games I saw that was not the case. Can you show me that the defenses were always putting their best DBs on Moss? I'm sure Moss helped take away attention in the first few years, but defenses were not focusing on him much that year. The slump in stats was more about how they used Welker than not having Moss around him to take attention away from him.

Who knows? It was a catchable ball but it wasn't an easy catch. He was wide open and Brady was off target a bit. They were only up 2 and would have had it on the Giants 20 with 4 minutes left. If the D held them to a FG, I like Eli's chances. He's a Patriot killer.

I know we had Revis on Moss in week 2 then when Revis left the game w/ an injury we put our next best corner on him the rest of the game.

As poorly as Moss was playing he was a guy you still had to watch.

It wasn't an easy catch but it was more than catchable and big time players catch that ball in that spot.

Eli didn't do much in either SB, the Giants D held great offenses down to give him a chance.

 

[The New Guy]

I know we had Revis on Moss in week 2 then when Revis left the game w/ an injury we put our next best corner on him the rest of the game.

As poorly as Moss was playing he was a guy you still had to watch.

It wasn't an easy catch but it was more than catchable and big time players catch that ball in that spot.

Eli didn't do much in either SB, the Giants D held great offenses down to give him a chance.

The Pats won the SB against the Rams when the D allowed only 17 points to a high powered Rams O while scoring 7 on an interception return, and Brady was THE reason they won that game to you, but Eli didn't do much?

 

[nyjunc]

The Pats won the SB against the Rams when the D allowed only 17 points to a high powered Rams O while scoring 7 on an interception return, and Brady was THE reason they won that game to you, but Eli didn't do much?

Brady was put in an impossible spot after the D blew an historic lead. Did the Giants D blow a big lead? did Eli take over inside his 20 w/ 1:20 to play and NO timeouts against a top D who had all the momentum?

I don't give Brady all the credit, I give Brady the credit for rescuing the D.

 

[The New Guy]

Brady was put in an impossible spot after the D blew an historic lead. Did the Giants D blow a big lead? did Eli take over inside his 20 w/ 1:20 to play and NO timeouts against a top D who had all the momentum?

I don't give Brady all the credit, I give Brady the credit for rescuing the D.

NE only had that lead becasue the D returned an interception for a TD, recovered a fumble which gave NE the ball on the Rams 40 which led to a score, and then forced and recovered a fumble that gave NE the ball on the Rams 33 which led to another score. The D allowed 2 scores in the second half which tied the game. That isn't as much pressure as being down.

The Giants were up 9-0 in the second quarter. Who cares that they blew the lead much earlier than NE D did. The Giants D didn't score a TD and put the O in easy spots to score like the NE defense did. Bottom line is Eli was down in the last few minutes of the game and went 88 yards to win it. If Eli didn't do much than Brady did even less.

 

[mrodriguez4096]

NE only had that lead becasue the D returned an interception for a TD, recovered a fumble which gave NE the ball on the Rams 40 which led to a score, and then forced and recovered a fumble that gave NE the ball on the Rams 33 which led to another score. The D allowed 2 scores in the second half which tied the game. That isn't as much pressure as being down.

The Giants were up 9-0 in the second quarter. Who cares that they blew the lead much earlier than NE D did. The Giants D didn't score a TD and put the O in easy spots to score like the NE defense did. Bottom line is Eli was down in the last few minutes of the game and went 88 yards to win it. If Eli didn't do much than Brady did even less.

One thing I have learned when "debating" with this troll is who's name is on the back of the jersey. If it consists of
P. Manning.
E. Manning.
B. Favre.
W. Welker.

If you're arguing for then he will always have an excuse to discredit anything they do or accomplish.